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Thread: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

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    Default [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    The Danube Limes, re-organisation and disintegration Part I
    " ... to make the Ister River the strongest possible line of first defence "- Prokopius of Caesarea Προκόπιος ὁ Καισαρεύς


    A Brief Historical Narrative :
    In the aftermath of the battle of Nedao 454, Hun hegemony north of the Danube collapsed, and new groups migrated across the Danube. One such group was settled by the emperor Marcian in Pannonian (450-7) led firstly by Valamer, then after his murder, by Theodemer. At the same time another group, composed in part by what had previously been referred to as Greuthingi, led by Theoderic Strabo ( who was a relative of the wife of Magister Militum Aspar), crossed into the eastern Balkans. There were of course Goths in positions of power in the empire, Arnegisclus and his son Anagstes held position of Magister Militum per Thrace in 447 and 469-70 respectively- both of these had a personnel military retinue like that of Theodoric Strabo and Theodemir..(Collins.R 2010)
    In 470 Anagastes, with the encouragement of Arabur revolted, and lost power. Later Arabur was murdered for his part in the revolt.
    This left Theodermer and his son, Theodoric (known to history as the Amal), and Theodoric and his son, Recitach, to struggle for supremacy. By 476 Theodoric Strabo and his son were dead, and Theodoric( Amal) was Magister Militum.(again in 477-478) after periods of fighting for and against the emperor Zeno the emperor and Goth came to an agreement, so in 488 CE the Emperor Zeno and Theodoric signed a treaty which made Theodoric a Patrician and allowed Theodoric to seize Italy and rule on behalf of the emperor. We don't know what Zeno thought, he died shortly after.
    This was by no means the end of the problems faced by the empire in the Balkans. The departure of the Goths had freed the Balkans south of the Danube and Sava rivers, but although there was no substantial barbarian presence- it did not seem to facilitate reclamation of the former Danube frontier in total. .(Collins.R 2010)

    They -the Romans -did not manage to reassert themselves in Moesia Prima , or Pannonia Secunda, and Sirmium- the largest strategically important fortress in the province- had been seized by the Gepids when the Goths left in the 470's. In Moesia Secunda and Dacia Ripensis the Romans has managed to reassert control, but large parts of Illyricum west of the Moravia river remained beyond imperial control

    During the 490's Theodoric felt secure enough in Italae to expand his dominion into western Illyricum, and Theoderic became de facto ruler of coastal Dalmatia - this was never part of the deal with the emperor Zeno, as this had been under eastern juristiction since 437- it was not until 510 that the emperor Anastasius acknowledges the takeover and Theodoric became de jure ruler. But Anastasius was clearly not happy with an Ostrogoth presence in Dalmatia, but was unable to take action due to other concerns elsewhere(Bulgar raids and renewal of Persian war)..(Collins.R 2010)
    With this in mind Theodoric launched an attack on his former allies -the Gepids- to seize Sirmium thereby securing Italae from an attack from the east Romans, possible in the form of a federate army as the Ostrogoth's had been. The most the empire had been able to do in this period in response to this Ostrogothic aggression, was to send a naval expedition against Italy in 508, but as mentioned earlier the empire had other concerns at this point.

    Events outside the Balkans, still further changed the balance of power in the Danube region. The recapture of Sirmium by the Romans- during the 'war of reconquest'- allowed it to be handed back to the Gepids. Other groups too, were to be utilised by the emperor Justinian I to guard the Danubian frontier. The Lombards were persuaded to move south into Norricum and western Pannnonia , and the Heruls were located around the city of Singidunum, all these groups remained semi-autonmous, but provided contingents for the Roman army, especially for the war in Italy.(Collins.R 2010) In the tradition of divide and rule Justinian often supported the Lombards against the more powerful Gepids, a policy that was to change after the emperors death, with disastrous consequences, under the reign of Justin II.

    Ever since the war in Italy, the Gepids had become the second biggest problem on the Limes- the Huns and Bulgars being the first, which I will come to in a moment- petty kings and a burgeoning aristocracy with large warrior retinues had ruled the Gepid tribes, sometimes an over king had reigned from Sirmium, the last of which Cunimund (560-567) minted coins -Roman/Ostrogoth copies- bearing the name of Sirmium. (Kurta, 2006) Justinian realising the potential menace of having another rising Germanic power in the Balkans, stopped paying the annual subsidies, and as mentioned earlier chose to pay the Lombards as federates. In 547 a joint Roman-Lombard expedition defeated the Gepids, repeated again in 551 by the Lombards alone.(Kurta, 2006)
    Further trouble on the Danube Limes came in the form of an attack in 545 by a large group of Sclavenes, they crossed the Danube raided the countryside taking large numbers of Roman slaves, theses raids were to grow in frequency and ferocity as the century progressed

    In 482 the emperor Zeno had sought military aid from the Bulgars, against the Ostrogoths, but during the reign of the emperor Anastasius I (491-518) raids by Bulgar Utrigurs and Kutrigurs had grown more frequent and dangerous, even raiding far into Thrace, Moesia, and Illyricum. These horseman would be allies one day, enemies next and became a ever presence in the Balkans. Raids by Hunnic groups- generic term used by such writers as Prokopius, Jordannes, and Count Marcellinus to describe nomadic horseman- and the Bulgars and Sclavenes led to the massive fortifications of Justinian carried out along the Danube Limes, see Prokopius below.
    The Slavic groups grew in power in the century to come, expanding into large parts of the Balkans (Pohl, 2005) the balance of power remained just that, finely balanced among tribes of nomads- Utrigurs, Kutrigers, Bulgars and others- beyond the frontier, the fortifications were a great success initially- but larger groups formed to carry out deeper, more damaging- from a Roman perspective- raids. In 559 the Kutrigers led by Zabergan, raided deep into Thrace, as far as the long walls of Konstantinoupolis, and in the early 580's Sclavenes scaled the walls of Thesalonica, and a large raid in 558 led by Ardagastus which like that of the Kutrigers reached the outskirts of the capitol.
    Then in the twilight of Justinian's reign everything changed, the finely tuned balance of power was shattered by the arrival of the Avars. In 558 having arrived in the Caucasus they sent an emissary to Justinian, in they asked for subsidies and promised to destroy all his enemies. The fate of many was decided in that moment, the Avars had arrived

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    For these works have been executed with due regard for the nearness of the Ister River and for the consequent necessity imposed by the barbarians who threaten the land. 5 For it has as neighbours nations of Huns and of Goths, and the regions of Taurus and of Scythia rise up again it, as well as the haunts of the Sclaveni and of sundry other tribes — whether they are called by the writers of the most ancient history Hamaxibian or Metanastic Sauromatae,1 and whatever other wild race of men really either roams about or leads a settled life in that region. 6 And in his determination to resist these barbarians who were endlessly making war, the Emperor Justinian, who did not take the matter lightly, was obliged to throw innumerable fortresses about the country, to assign to them untold garrisons of troops, and to set up all other possible obstacles to an enemy who attacked without warning and who permitted no intercourse. 7 Indeed it was the custom of these peoples to rise and make war upon their enemies for no particular cause, and to open hostilities without sending an embassy, and they did not bring their struggles to an end through any treaty or cease operations for any specified p223period, but they made their attacks without provocation and reached a decision by the sword alone. But still we must proceed owing to the remainder of our story. 8 For when we have begun a task it will be better to go through to the end in any fashion whatever than to depart leaving it unfinished. 9 Certainly my action would not be free from blame, if, after our Emperor has performed the work, I for my part, should shrink from telling of what he has done. 10 But now that we are on the point of enumerating the buildings of this Emperor in Europe, it is proper first to make a few observations regarding this land.

    11 There is a narrow arm or bight which is pushed out from the Adriatic Sea, as it is called, and strays away from the remainder of the sea and goes up into the mainland, and dividing the continent for a great distance it forms the Ionian Gulf, having on the right the Epirotes and the other peoples of that region and on the left Calabria; then, being compressed into a narrow inlet for a very long way, the sea bounds practically the whole continent.2 12 And the River Ister, flowing higher up,3 and opposite the sea, makes the land of Europe an island, as it were. 13 In that region this Emperor built many noteworthy buildings. 14 Indeed he fortified the whole of Europe so safely that he rendered it inaccessible to the barbarians who live beyond the Ister River. 15 But I must commence from the native land of the Emperor, to which of all places must be given first rank in all other respects, and with this I must begin p225my present account
    (Procopius, Buildings, 1-3 Illyricum)



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    5 Thus did the Emperor Justinian fortify the whole interior of Illyricum. I shall also explain in what manner he fortified the bank of the Ister River, which they also call the Danube, by means of strongholds and garrisons of troops. 2 The Roman Emperors of former times, by way of preventing the crossing of the Danube by the barbarians who live on the other side, occupied the entire bank of this river with strongholds, and not the right bank of the stream alone, for in some parts of it they built towns and fortresses on its other bank. 3 However, they did not so build these strongholds that they were impossible to attack, if anyone should come against them, but p267they only provided that the bank of the river was not left destitute of men, since the barbarians there had no knowledge of storming walls. 4 In fact the majority of these strongholds consisted only of a single tower, and they were called appropriately "lone towers," and very few men were stationed in them. 5 At that time this alone was quite sufficient to frighten off the barbarian clans, so that they would not undertake to attack the Romans. 6 But at a later time34 Attila invaded with a great army, and with no difficulty razed the fortresses; then, with no one standing against him, he plundered the greater part of the Roman Empire. 7 But the Emperor Justinian rebuilt the defences which had been torn down, not simply as they had been before, but so as to give the fortifications the greatest possible strength; and he added many more which he built himself. 8 In this way he completely restored the safety of the Roman Empire, which by then had been lost. And I shall explain how all this was accomplished.
    (Procopius, Buildings, Epirus, Macedonia, Dardania, Thessaly, and inner Illyricum, 4-6)





    Quaestura Exercitus
    Viktorinos, designed the fortifications of the Danube and the Balkans for the emperor Iustinian, but that was not the end of the changes to the defence of this region. In 536 Iustinian created the office of the Quaestura Exercitus (John Malalas 18.17) this post combined the territories of Moesia inferior, Scythia minor, Karia, Cyprus and the Aegean islands all of which was run from Odessos. Combining the areas of the biggest naval presence and some of the wealthiest regions, with the areas of greatest military need would make operations easier against the barbarians, by supplying it with amongst other things the annona (food supplies). Perhaps this reorganisation was the forerunner of the Karabisianoi ?(Kurta. F, 2006)


    The Danube Limes, re-organisation and disintegration Part II...
    " ... to make the Ister River the strongest possible line of first defence "- Prokopius of Caesarea Προκόπιος ὁ Καισαρεύς


    The transformation of the classical Polis/Municipium in the sixth century
    In the previous section I quoted extracts from Prokopius of Caesarea's buildings, in which he describes the building program of the emperor Justinian, along the Danube provinces.
    Using the written sources alone does not tell the whole picture of the evolution of urbanisation in the Roman empire, as a whole, or that of the Danubian regions in particular. Classical rhetoric remained strong in the descriptions of sixth century cities, and perhaps exaggerated to form a greater connection with the classical past (Saradi. H, 1995) In Justinian's Novel 103 the emperor commends Caesarea -home town of Prokopius- and comments on the beauty of its bath houses, hippodrome, theatres, temples and fora, all the things one would expect to find in a classical Greco-Roman polis or municipium
    The same can be said of the frontier towns, Prokopius say's of Justiniana Prima, 'a most noble city', commenting on the architecture he says,'the magnitude of its colonnades, the beauty of its Forum' but the archaeology tells a different story, only one modest bath house, but seven basilical churches, the main colonnaded road leads a central plaza-only twenty- two meters diameter, only a small population could of been supported- far smaller than a classical polis . The city acted as an administrative center and a refuge in time of war (Holum, G, K, 2005).
    Along the frontier, Key cities had formed from Roman forts along the Danube limes, as they had at other frontiers, some of the most important along the Danube Sirmium, Singidunum, Durostorum, further inland and 'guarding routes through Haemus mountains was Nicopolis ad Istrum and south of mountains, the strategic city of Marcianopolis, all had grown to have large civilian populations by the fourth century and displayed all the indicators of classical settlements, grid plans, theaters, Fora, etc (Liebeshuetz, 2007) From the early fourth century(Tetrarchic period) the Danube cities had been refortified and this had reduced the size of the urban space to a fraction of what it had been during the 'high empire'. By AD 500 most of the cities around the Danube had contracted behind high strong walls, sometimes on an elevated acropolis dominated by a church (Kurta. F, 2006) the churches were very often constructed with no regard to earlier classical grid plans using spoila from classical public buildings, former city walls, and even houses, in Phillipolis a large church was constructed right in the middle of a residential area -blocking several street access points!(Kurta. F, 2006)



    Map of empire before Iustinians reconquest
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Ivstiniana Prima- an example of how cities had shrunk around a fortified center, dominated by church buildings.
    Image by Goran Ivanovic http://caricin-grad.tripod.com/index.html





    Bibliography:
    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/E/Roman/Texts/Procopius/Buildings/home.html
    Ellis H. Minns (1941). Review of M. Spinka 'Chronicle of John Malalas, Books VIII–XVIII' The Classical Review, 55 , pp 102-102 doi:10.1017/S0009840X00310381
    Maas, M (ed)(2005)' The Cambridge Companion To the Age of Justinian', Cambridge University Press.
    Kurta, F(2006) 'Southeastern Europe in the Middle Ages 500- 1250', Cambridge Medieval Textbooks, Cambridge University Press.
    Collins, R(2010)' Early Medieval Europe 300-1000' Palgrave History of Europe, Basingkstoke, Palgrave McMillan.
    Translation by Cyril Mango, ( 1997), 'The Chronicle of Theophanes Confessor'. Byzantine and Near Eastern History, AD 284-813, pp. 497-499,Oxford
    Scott, Roger D (1985), ' Malalas, The Secret History, and Justinian's Propaganda' , Dumbarton Oaks Papers , Vol. 39, pp. 99-109, Dumbarton Oaks, Trustees for Harvard UniversityArticle Stable URL:http://www.jstor.org/stable/1291517
    Kurta, F(1996) 'Invasion or Inflation? Sixth- to seventh century Byzantine coin hoards in Eastern and Southeastern Europe' Annali dell'Istituto Italiano di Numismatica 43 (1996), pp. 65-224
    And a Special thanks to Prof Florin Curta (University of Miami) Pseudo-Methodius (EoR) and Pompeius Magnus, for their assistance and insights in matters of the sixth century

    Part II coming soon....The arrival of the Avares and disintegration of the Danube frontier after the death of Justinian.....(09/09/2012) I am afraid I am very busy with RL issues so completing this article might take considerably longer than anticipated. So I have added what I have completed thus far.
    Thank you for your patience and following AoDII your comrade Constantius.
    Last edited by Constantius; September 09, 2012 at 11:44 AM.


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    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: The Danube Limes

    another phantastic elaboration Constantius. Well done!

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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Good Job Constans

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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Absolutely stunning work sir. Looking forward to read the next instalment.

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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Great article, looking forward for the next update

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    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Thank you all, very much


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    Deutschland's Avatar East of Rome Mod Leader
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Very interesting and nicely done

    +rep

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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    really good, amazing to see how much work you guys put into even these little histories
    wish i could give rep but i cant

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    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Thank you it come from a love of our subject, and all these articles by myself and Pomeius Magnus will, hopefuly, give players of the mod a detailed understanding of the time frame


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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Wonderful work and interesting and very informative reading Constantius!!!................+ rep when I can!



    Side note:

    This is not a critic but only a request, or better, a battle of minority: The "Lombards" should be correctly called "Langobards".
    "Lombards" is the name of the today inhabitants of Lombardy which is the region of the northern Italian city of Milan.
    Main source:'Paul of Winfrid' (or 'Paul the Deacon'), 'Historia Langobardorum' (I,9):

    '..Certum tamen est, Langobardos ab intactae ferro barbae longitudine, cum primitus Winili dicti fuerint, ita postmodum appellatos. Nam iuxta illorum linguam lang longam, bard barbam significat. Wotan sane, quem adiecta littera Godan dixerunt, ipse est qui apud Romanos Mercurius dicitur et ab universis Germaniae gentibus ut deus adoratur; qui non circa haec tempora, sed longe anterius, nec in Germania, sed in Grecia fuisse perhibetur...'

    '...It is certain, however, that the Langobards were afterwards so called on account of the length of their
    beards untouched by the knife, whereas at first they had been called Winnili; for according to their
    language "lang" means " long" and " bart " "beard." Wotan indeed, whom by adding a letter they
    called Godan is he who among the Romans is called Mercury, and he is worshiped by all the peoples
    of Germany as a god, though he is deemed to have existed, not about these times, but long before, and
    not in Germany, but in Greece...'

    English Translation:
    By William Dudley Foulke, published by University of Pensylvania as"History of the Langobards", 1907.
    link to the PDF of University of Pensyvania:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Sorry for this small invasion, take it for what it is: a simple request.

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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    I think that both terms can be used. The term Lombards is used by current historians to refer to the germanic people that invaded North Italy.

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    Constantius's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Quote Originally Posted by Wallachian View Post
    I think that both terms can be used. The term Lombards is used by current historians to refer to the germanic people that invaded North Italy.
    yes, Thankyou, in fact quite often the term Langobardi is in reference to the tribe Tacitus describes in first century....never the less thank you for your input Diocle I would NEVER claim to know everything , we are ever learning


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    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Im not sure if Lombards is a new term or not but it definetly is accepted by historians. The explanation of the term Langobardi makes sense aswell though. Its a bit simillar to the case of the Pechenegs, they're variously refered to as Patzinaks but both terms are accepted.

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    No Wallachian, you misundertood what I said: I do not context that many English-speaking Historians actually use the term Lombards to indicate the Langobards, this is true and in the English-speaking world well accepted! But it is wrong!

    Do you know Lombard street in London? It is not the street of the Langobardi it is the street of the Lombard Merchants of the XV and XVI centuries! The Langobards were the ancient German people who occupied Italy in the 568 AD, where they founded the Regnum Langobardorum, the Lombards are only the people who lived or lives in the region of Lombardy, which actually is only a region of Italy.

    Walacchian can you explain me why do you call The Mrovingian Germanic people who occupied Gaul between the V and the VIII FRANKS and not French? Why the Franks are not French? Why?....
    If you'll find the answer to this question you'll understand why I ask to Constantius to call the Germanic people who occupied Italy between the VI and the VIII century Langobards or better Langobarden and NOT Lombards!!

    Dear Walacchian, in the end, you'll find it is not so diffiult to undrstand the concept, it is quite easy!

    Now, because we are speaking of the Germanic people, the Langobards (or better in German Language: 'Langobarden') who founded the Langobardic Kingdom of Italy, and because the Main Historical sources of the period call them Langobardi, because Paul the Deacon (one of them!!!!!!!) describes even the origin of their name, for Historical accuracy I asked and ask to our Constantius and to Pompeius if it would be possible to call that ancient and unfortunate Germanic people using the name that they chosed and used to indicate themselves!

    I do not think that this is an unhistorical request, I do not think that my request could be considered immotivate or a great violence against the English Language because in the translation dating 1907 of the Historia Langobardorum by the Pensylavania University they are called "Langobards", I do think that this could be a good and correct approach to the History of the VI-VII-VIII century Europe!

    I'll end here! I'll not post here again because I do not want to open o polemic in this thread which has to be devoted to the wonderful work of Constantius which anyway I'll follow with great interest!

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    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    The group in AoD2 is of course called Langobardi - since this term is the only valid name for them (their real name was originally probably Winniler or Winnili). But Langobardi is their latin designation and we use for all germanic groups the latin wording - and no english names (Lombards) or italian names (Lombardi).
    Hope this clarifies the question.
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; April 03, 2012 at 03:38 PM.

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Sorry Pompeius, a small correction, if I can: the Italian for them is 'Longobardi'.

    In Italy we use the word Lombardi to indicate the inhabitants of the modern Italian region of Lombardy, that is a totally different thing from the ancient Germanic people.

    Actually Paul the Deacon says that their name was, as you said, 'Winnili', but later, for reasons that are too long to explain here, they started to call themselves Langobards from the Ancient German 'Lang' = EN.:'Long', and 'Bard' = En.: 'Beard', so their High German name was: 'Langbard' for our Paul of Winfrid, but this is only the oral tradition in the memories of a Langobard who lived in the time of Charlemagne.
    So your decision to use for them (and all the other Germanic Peoples in AoD2) the Latin name Langobardi is the best choice!!!

    I posted again on the subject only because I tought It was necessary a small corretion to the words of Pompeius about the Italian name which, I reapeat, is 'Longobardi'.

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    Pompeius Magnus's Avatar primus inter pares
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Alfred Smyth has worked out a phantastic essay about the origin of the terms lombardus-lombarda-lombardi and he found those terms [...]ranging from the 8th century AD to 1500AD and beyond[...] and the terms seem somewhat exchangable from a certain date during the 9th or 10th century. So, independently for what the term is used today it also designated officially the people as well as the country in the early middle ages.
    A modification focused on the 9th century and beyond should use the term Lombardi and Lombardia (since both terms are used in official letters and documents / see below).
    We (AOD2) use the only official attested (latin) designation of Langobardi for the 6th and 7th century.

    There are also some interesting anecdotes from several official certifications and letters - also one from Francesco Sforza. You can read on a letter that he wrote to "Gabriel de Litio ordinis minorum pervenit Lombardie" - and then he crossed the "Lombardie" with a pen and corrected it with the abbreviation Mli. Obviously he thought it's better to address this letter to the Mediolani - and not to the Lombards.

    Dante Alighieri
    De Vulgari Eloquentia
    book I chapter 10
    ~1290AD
    [...] et dextri regiones sunt Apulia, sed non tota, Roma, Ducatus, Tuscia et Januensis Marchia: sinistri autem pars Apulie, Marchia Anconistana, Romandiola, Lombardia [...]

    Godfrey of Viterbo
    ~1140AD
    [...]Lombardia potens ter denas continent urbes[...]
    Last edited by Pompeius Magnus; April 03, 2012 at 06:35 PM.

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    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Pompeius you are always perfect! If we speak about what happened after 774! The term is Lombard!

    Your quotes are truly fascinating!

    I studied the 'De Vulgari Eloquentia' at Classic Liceum of my town (How many beautiful memories! as said Lorenzo De' Medici: 'Quant'è bella giovinezza che si fugge tuttavia....') as you know for sure if the word Lombardi rangs from the VIII-IX century it is exactly the time of the Birth of the Voulgar Italian (See 'Veronese Riddle') but sadly the Langbards at this time were no more! Italy was part of Lotharingia and then of the German Empire and this is exactly what I was trying to explain: The term Lombards should be used only after the end of the Langobardic Kingdom of Italy in the yerar 774 AD!

    In the end what I'm trying to explain is that words like Lombards or French should be used only after the birth of the Romances Voulgar Languages (after Charlemagne), before, when the Germanic groups were not fused with the Roman substrate, the ethnical identities of the German groups were still alive so in this case we must use the words Franks or Frankish and Langobards!

    Pompeius, thank you very much! You understood my reasons and added some very interesying suggestions about which I totally agree with you!!! Again Thanks!!


    Important dates:
    For the passage from the definition of Franks to the that of French people: 'The Oaths of Strasbourg' 842 AD.

    For the passage from the definition of Langobards to that of Lombards: 'The Veronese Riddle' VIII early IX century.

    Being Italian I like to add the small riddle, it is interesting and for our Language very important being the birth of the Italian Language, because the text for many reasons is no more Latin, it is Italian Voulgar.

    'Se pareba boves
    alba pratalia araba
    albo versorio teneba
    negro semen seminaba'

    which translates more or less like this:
    'In front of him (he) led oxen
    White fields (he) plowed
    A white plow (he) held
    A black seed (he) sowed'

    Now before, Pompeius and Constantius kill me for the Mega off-topic, in a perfect Italian style, I escape.....

  19. #19
    Wallachian's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    Thanks for the clarification Diocle, very scholarly information.

    Regarding the limes found this interesting map on wiki of the limes line on the Danube and the various walls in Roman Dacia.

  20. #20
    Diocle's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: [Historiae] The Danube Limes

    No, Wallachian not scholarly, only a simple information by only a simple Romance speaker! Anyway thanks!

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