Roma Surrectum 1-turn - should it be like this?

[SakyaIllidan]

what is the diference between 1 and 0 turn¿?

[First Citizen Gallienus]

what is the diference between 1 and 0 turn¿?

It takes 1 turn to create 1 unit in a given city. On 0 turn, you can fill up the whole recruitment queue and they'll all be recruited by the next turn.

[TallestDavid]

i think o turn is too fast for units its like arcade to me but they both good 1 or 2 depending on style i guess

[CTD_or_Bust]

Both the AI and the player have 0 turn recruit, so it's not as bad as you would think. In Empire TW some players like to chill out for like 60 turns before they start doing any serious expansion. That way the AI has a fair chance to recruit a lot of nasty armies.

0 turn does the same thing. Both you and the AI can recruit armies blazing fast. It results in a LOT (1000+) battles in a campaign but it is still challenging and amusing. 1 turn is a lot more .. I'm hesitant to say difficult but it does require much more thought and planning than 0 turn.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

541 to 545 AUC

A much shorter report, because this was a time of relative and much needed calm. The Army was cycled through the Roma arms factories and several men of note were recruited to take over from the aging Governors. The sieges of Genoa and Ariminum came to an end in the Summer of 542 and the threat from Hannibal was over.

After the Macedonians took Dyrrachium it was possible to gain a ceasefire with them, especially after Sparta allied with them (and carried on their diplomacy too). Macedon then declared war on Pergamon and the Greeks went against the Ptolemaics. My diplomat was surprisingly successful in creating alliances with Pontus & Armenia and then Sarmatia. The first has not lasted as they went to war and I felt I had to support Pontus. Sparta’s alliance with Pergamon also didn’t survive when the Macedonians attacked them. Now if only Macedonia would attack Greece!

The attached map shows gains by several powers; the period of calm will not long survive I’m sure!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Damn - forgot the upload.....

[DeWitt8]

Screw these alliances, they mean nothing Tedric. AI will attack and backstab you when you share a border anyway!

[CTD_or_Bust]

My second to last runthrough featured a betrayal by four factions in two turns. So, yeah, second that notion. Strong legions make good neighbors It's cool to try to ally with as many as you can but they will break it if they see weakness as sure as .. well, any of us would do the same!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Screw these alliances, they mean nothing Tedric. AI will attack and backstab you when you share a border anyway!

I know. But making the Trade relationships can often be beneficial (less so than Vanilla mind you). It's just a bit more meaningful that way.

I also get a deal of satisfaction being 'righteous' against the back-stabbers. I want Surakousai and Massalia and Salonae, but I'm a nice and honourable chap - I can wait until it's Greek Justice!!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

546 to 550 AUC

And it didn’t.....

Carthage attacked Emporiae, which was a little short-sighted of them; they should have been concentrating elsewhere in Spain! Subduing N Italy is a sensible priority, so I invested Bononia; thinking to make a limited war on the Boii and ask for terms soon afterwards. Having committed a Legion there, however, it was a natural time for the Greeks to renege on their alliance, striking out at Messana. I did wonder if something different might happen, but it was not to be; unfortunately for the Greeks they timed this one particularly badly! I had just loaded an Allied half-legion and garrison units from S Italy on board ship for an intended strike at the Balaerics; and they were sitting just off Messana. Reinforced by the S Italy reserve Force, they immediately relieved Messana and destroyed the Greek forces who took up a nasty defensive position on the slopes of Etna. The troops were further reinforced by the standing Sicilian Force and invested Surakousai; expecting a nice long siege.

The Boii sallied forth as their siege ran down and were dealt with. What was a surprise was that the very next turn a Boii Diplomat sued for peace and even accepted a Trade Agreement! Thus the intent was achieved without undue effort; I assume the Boii recognised the inevitable. The Legion outside Surakousai, however, were rudely awoken early one morning not long into the siege, by a small force of Greeks who had slipped by the, obviously, ineffective naval blockade and landed troops to take the besieging forces from the rear. A wide open field romp then occurred with a great deal of marching; that firstly dealt with the attackers and then the, not nearly siege-reduced enough Surakousai reinforced garrison. The General did so well that it was decided, not that there were any spare at the time, to install him as Governor for his efforts.

[CTD_or_Bust]

What difficulty do you prefer? I've always had a tough time getting peace out of my enemies unless they're being hosed from multiple factions!

[ur-Lord Tedric]

What difficulty do you prefer? I've always had a tough time getting peace out of my enemies unless they're being hosed from multiple factions!

As noted, I'm testing on M/M because I'm after seeing what the balance is like and the intention is to advance and check as many parameters as possible, rather than give myself a tough game.

Ceasefires are only really possible if you have no current borders with a faction. When they ask for one, as Carthage does occasionally, and they're still next to you, it only means they're going to attack anyway.

I'd intend to move to Hard Campaign when testing is over and I play my first full campaign after, but even then I'll probably try a different faction or two before returning to Rome. Given some of the battles and the fact that the AI's troops have extra experience, even then I'm not sure I'll do Hard Battles. RSII ceratinly has made things much more exciting than Vanilla.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

551 to 560 AUC – a double helping!

Fresh from its defence of Sicily from the treacherous Greeks and having re-loaded the force to attack Pollentia, belatedly remembering to acquire a Siege Ballista, it sailed upon its merry way. Upon landing, however, Pollentia was suddenly reinforced from troops that must have been hiding somewhere. The force taken was not large enough to lay siege, so they were re-embarked. Then an opportunity presented itself. A Greek force had departed from Massalia, originally to take Narbonensis, but they were beaten to the punch by the Averni advance. They were spotted on the wrong side of the river from Massalia. The averted attack on the Balaerics was therefore converted into a lightning strike against Massalia, which fell even through their mighty walls. That will teach the Greeks!

The Northern Italy defence force then started to think about clearing the way to the Alps. One of the threatening Insubres armies was attacked; clearing away one of the dangers; and an assault was undertaken against the Taurasian Hill Fort. Suddenly a couple of Macedonian forces appeared from Illyria and merrily wandered through Venetii lands and then into Roman territory. They were initially blocked by moving forces in front of their line of advance and eventually forts were constructed along the river line to deny them movement further South. They eventually worked their way back North East, but this was of concern; plans were therefore advanced.

That Greek force West of Massalia over the river went on a march and disappeared, only to re-appear through the NW Alpine Pass and threaten Taurasia; but they were intercepted and destroyed. Patavium was then besieged as it had a reasonable garrison. Over the next few seasons, a watch was kept upon Dalmatia and the final Greek outpost. As soon as the Massalian attack force was relieved of its garrison duties it reconstituted and launched an amphibious invasion from the port of Ariminum, thus, in a decent fight only helped by the lesser defences of Salonae than the major cities of Surakousai or Massalia, the assault was carried and the treachery of the Greeks had resulted in useful gains for the Romans.
Subsequently Macedonian armies began to appear coming up the coast from Illyricum and they eventually declared war at the very end of the period. The only other thing of note that it is worth drawing attention to throughout the first 25 years is the problems that the Seleucids seem to have been having with rebellious provinces, two of which the Parthians seem to have subsequently acquired!

As a general comment, this campaign does seem to be going faster at this stage, probably due to greater familiarity and therefore confidence, but also that I am only concentrating on the areas of detail where the last few issues of traits seem to be. I am hoping that the Reforms may come up in about another 20 years, and I will be completely ready for them this time and intend to make good use of the Later Republic Legions.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

561 to 565 AUC

After Macedonia attacked, it sadly spelt the end of my alliance with Sparta; as they decided to side with Macedonia. I felt this to be a great shame, not only had they survived against the Greek behemoth, but I had sunk a great number of Greek ships to help them and always hoped I might be able to spare a force for the Greek Peninsula.

What I could do was advance and complete my early moves in Illyria/Dalmatia (Salonae and Segestica are just too useful for future legion recruitment) by taking Segestica; and, most likely start my generation long defence of the area! The only remaining part of the early plan was to take Mediolanon and secure the remainder of the Alpine routes, so that settlement was besieged, ready to fall just after the end of this period.

Akragas stood at 14.5k pop in the Winter of 565; with Oppidum’s already built in: Aleria; Tarentum; Lilybaeum; and Messana; with Arretium & Ariminum on their way towards eventual Campus Martii. The intent is to bring: Genoa; Massalia; Surakousai; and then Salonae & Segestica to the same level as soon as practicable. This would not only fully support the Reforms, but allow better troop availability as they are subsequently upgraded further. The intent being to fully utilise the Late Republic legionnaires and move to full Imperial troops in a more co-ordinated manner.

Pollentia remains a desire, but Carthage are (oddly as they could certainly use the troops elsewhere!), maintaining a large (~30u) force there. Not only is the island base useful, I would like to see it eliminated before it becomes the Carthaginian capital. An invasion of Africa is highly desired, but there are simply too few troops available at this stage. Carthage is putting up a decent fight against the Gallaeci across the isthmus at the Pillars of Hercules; with both Gadir and now Tingi changing hands a few times. Whilst they are currently allies, I know that peace with the Gallaeci is not in either sides best interest in the long term and I must enter Africa before the advance too far.

A small aside to note the passing of dear ‘Nepos, the maligned but now defender of Roma (in this campaign anyway!), who was responsible for almost single-handedly dealing with the Socii Rebellion, before being rewarded by the Governorship of Roma in his twilight years. After eventual retirement at 60 and the transfer of his staff, he went into seclusion in his villa in the Apennines. However, it seems that his ailing condition attracted a steady stream of Greek Physicians to attend him. These were subsequently parcelled out to younger Governors and Generals. The upshot being that, after his eventual death over 20 years later, he had managed to provide health benefits to almost everyone. Whilst it is not possible to review every family tree, it seems this has caused something of an increase in fecundity and, certainly, the appearance of many marriageable young women, given the regular number of suitors for their hands. One certain result is that there hasn’t been the need to recruit any Generals in nearly a generation!

[Ye Olde Fahrt]

Any updates?

[ur-Lord Tedric]

Any updates?

Thank you and my apologies - I do still intend to update.

The previous week there was a short break for an update that could have required another restart, but luckily didn't. This last week I have been concentrating on looking at General's traits, ranks and progression (so more on battles and the like to come).

I have, however, been able to play-test, pass the reforms, take the fight to Carthage and defeat them before the Gallaeci could.

More soon - I promise. And the Team's work is continuing on all sorts of little tweaks to perfect and resolve issues.

[Ye Olde Fahrt]

That's great news My main difficulty with Campaigns is that I always tend to rush things too much. Having the time line to compare is a good thing. Also, how to balance bw economy and military is something I am still struggling with.

[West3634]

For one who hates the endless numbers of battles will 1-turn make a big difference, especially in the later game when im trying to hold the borders of my empire ? Just starting to get sick and tired of endless battles (im more of a campaign guy, until i have the legions ), also im one of those people who constantly restarts campaigns, only gained the reforms twice, must have played around 6 campaigns as rome already . Also last time i looked into 1-turn buildings were really cheap, whats with that ?
Hi btw peeps, new to the forum

[ur-Lord Tedric]

I did try 0turn the very first time I played, but gave up from too many battles against the same army (the mis-spawning Rebel one W of Capua, which is now well fixed), but would have found too many battles too much as well as I realised would happen.

I love the battles with a passion - the extra length of time they take allows much more realistic behaviour and therefore tactics to be used - but don't think I could cope with 0turn and a developed empire.

So yes, 1turn it is for me.

Building prices, and a whole lot more, have been looked at. The current Open Beta has a few glitches and tweaks still necessary, most of which are fixed however.

I would recommend a 1turn trial game, where I would ask that you add to the collective testing, which will give you a good feel; then enjoy fully when the next patch is ready (but will not be sav-compatible, I suspect).

[ur-Lord Tedric]

566 to 580 AUC

This period started with the expected sallying forth of Mediolanon’s defenders, who were duly dealt with. Italy was now secure below the Alps (always deemed to be a good thing); and it was therefore not entirely a surprise that the Gods moved their latest pawns and the Cimbri invasion arrived. Those who viewed the alternate-reality version earlier in the thread will understand my relative calmness when I saw 3 full armies (rather than the 7 I had seen before!). This time, because Mediolanon’s acquisition had only just occurred, I had not yet completed the ‘Northern Italian Defence Network’ and the alpine pass to the North still lay open. I therefore pinned one of the Cimbri armies and destroyed it with a full Legion and Support; but the other 2 armies had vanished by the next turn (watch the changing map up North to see the later effects).

No sooner had the Cimbri disappeared than the Averni attacked the approaches to Massalia; which was a first test of the revitalised Italian Legion and its shiny new Golden Armour, thanks to the Vulcan Temple upgrades in Roma. This battle advanced the legion’s Plebeian commander to the rank of Primus Pilus, which he would hold throughout the next decade, or so (which will be reported on separately below).

The Winter of 568 saw the Cimbri declare war on the Belgae – which explained entirely what they had done with their reinforcements – as well as fuelling an eastern expansion, it seemed. The summer of 569 saw the postponed invasion of the Balearics take place, with a large battle around the rugged hill to the East of Pollentia. Over 2000 Cathaginians were killed for the loss of less than 100 Romans. Pollentia was then invested to bottle-up the remaining forces for the next 2 years.

Both Dacian and Boii forces had appeared on the northern approaches to Illyria and I was a bit concerned about the possible consequences; and it was therefore with some pleasure that I saw the Dacians declare war on the pesky Greeks (who really weren’t having as much fun this time around). By the Winter of 570 Akragas stood at 21.5k, the Gallaeci were making progress in Africa and I knew I would have to intervene soon.

It was possibly the test files upgrade that could have caused it (but there was no restart-campaign required), but the winter of 571 saw the Cimbri apparently war on the Belgae once more, this time with the Averni-Belgae alliance crumbling; to be immediately followed by an Averni-Cimbri alliance (which I may one day rue); now if only the Belgae had chosen Rome when the Averni had attacked, I may have been more sympathetic!

Note 1: - It’s worth raising a note here for all aspiring Roman Leaders – the Faction Leader is not supposed to have an Economy Trait. Therefore when the Heir takes over and does have that trait it will be removed. However, it is necessary that it is removed in stages – and it goes down first – way down, like really horrible! Do not fret, it looks bad, but causes no problems.

The summer of 572 saw Pollentia’s defenders sally forth and the islands were Rome’s. Now was the time to think of Africa. That winter was a landmark set of events: the Cimbri and the Dacians went to war; the Scythians declared war on the Greeks; and the Dacians broke their alliance with the Averni. All was going on outside the Roman’s borders and Akragas achieved 24k.

This prompted an early move of the Reserve Force covering Southern Italy and the Islands to join with the army that had taken Pollentia and invade Africa on the coast east of Hadrumentum, which was the first target; followed immediately by Thapsus in the summer of 574. I had not previously invaded with so few forces, but the plan was to slowly replace the Polybian units in the Italian and Illyrian Legions by Late Republican legionnaires (after the Reforms) and ship them over as soon as practicable and keep up with losses. The year of 575 AUC saw a Spartan and Macedonian ceasefire, which was regrettable, but also a defeat of the main Eastern Carthaginian army moving to retake Hadrumentum at the bridge SW of Carthago, for which ‘Varus (leader of the African enterprise) earned both a Corona Civica and Hasta Pura.

The short respite which followed allowed the Army of Africa to drive off the small force outside Lepcis-Magna and then assault the town in the summer of 576. Crazily at this point (and the fleet admirals were taken to task afterwards for allowing it to happen) the Carthaginians invaded Sardinia, which did prompt, I may add, a rapid movement of any available units to help. It did lead directly, however, to an attack on Carthage a little earlier than I thought, but very useful all the same, which also gained ‘Varus promotion to Tribunus Militi. Carhage allied with the Averni, but the writing was already on the cards.

The very end of the period saw the Romans now well ensconced in Africa. The Reforms had occurred in the Winter of 577 and some Early Legionnaires had appeared. In 580 the Faction Leader died, dear old ‘Nepos who had done so well (this time); in the final turn Pergamon went to war against the Ptolemaics. Rome had been allied to both and had to choose, deciding on the Ptolemaics. This proved to perhaps be an inspired decision as the result, given the two states previous interests, as Sarmatia, Dacia, Pontus and Scythia all sided with the Pergamese.

Note 2: - A further note is useful as I learned that the Reforms actually happen in 2 stages. Phase 1 results in gaining the new units. However, Phase 2 does not occur until a Roman Fortress is built and the Faction Leader moved to that settlement. This is important as it is Phase 2 that: triggers a change in the population curve for recruited generals (although minor); starts the Imperium effects of Loyalty; and changes the rank and awards system. This intervening period, which is in the Player’s control, is effectively the Late Republic and portrays it accurately before the Imperial period begins (or not, if you so choose – but who would!)