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Thread: Councils Act Revision

  1. #1
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Councils Act Election Revision

    Bill ?: The Councils Act Election Revision

    Proposer: Spiff

    Official Supporters:
    Patrician the Grim Squeaker
    Patrician/Quaestor Lusted
    Civitate silver guard

    Major Changes:
    - Councillors now have terms of service, stated as 2 months from time of appointment/election.
    - Councillors no longer recieve a rank for serving as a councillor.

    For the purposes of fairness, this bill aims to introduce terms of service to both councils, thus giving a wider range of willing and qualified Civitates an opportunity to participate in this new initiative. To compensate for the greater numbers predicted to take part, the rank of "Councillor" shall not be kept after service is rendered. Therefore, the Councils Act will be ammended with the following text in its entirety. Major changes are highlighted in Blue



    Consilium Belli

    Six Civitates shall be appointed by the Triumvirate to discuss and advise on ideas concerning the Total War section of the forums. These civitates should have a strong background in the Total War modding community and be in good standing.

    A designated forum will be created in the Curia, viewable publically, where all suggestions regarding the Total War section of the Forums will be discussed. The Council will have the power to invite a non-civitate members and shall be presided over by the Syntagma Pro-Curator. The Consilium Belli shall make necessary recomendations to the staff on issues of the TW Sections.

    Appointment to the Consilium Belli:
    Each member of the Consilium Belli has a term which lasts for a period of two months from when they are appointed. When a Council members term is due to end or a Councillor resigns, the Curator will choose when to open a candidates thread and post an announcement in the Curia, which shall remain open for 72 hours.

    Candidates shall post their reasons for wishing to participate and and relevant qualifications. After the candidates thread is closed the Triumvirate will appoint as many new Councillors as are required at that time. Councillors may serve consecutive terms though in the interests of fairness the Triumvirate will attempt to introduce new qualified councillors when possible.



    Consilium Pacis

    Four Civitates shall be elected by the Curia as per the Consilium Pacis Elections section to discuss and advise on ideas concerning the Common Community section of the forums. These civitates should have a strong background in the Common Community and be in good standing.

    A designated forum will be created in the Curia, viewable publically, where all suggestions regarding the Common Community section of the Forums will be discussed. The Council will have the power to invite a non-civitate members and shall be presided over by the Syntagma Pro-Curator. The Council shall make necessary recomendations to the staff on issues of the CC. Each member of the Consilium Pacis has a term which lasts for a period of two months from when they are elected.

    Election to the Consilium Pacis:
    When a Council members term is due to end or a councillor resigns, the Curator will choose when to open a candidates thread and post an announcement in the Curia, which shall remain open for 72 hours. All applicants not vetoed by Staff go forward to a vote open for one week. If more than 15 candidates apply and are not vetoed, the Staff can either select the 15 they believe to be the most suitable to be voted on, or expand the vote beyond 15 if deemed desirable. Previous members of the Consilium Pacis are eligible for re-election.

    Where one position is to be filled, the candidate who receives the plurality of votes receives the position on the Council of Peace. Where two or more positions are to be filled, only one poll need be held, and the candidates with the highest votes are appointed. In the case of ties there will be a run-off vote between the tied members lasting one week.



    Addendum I: If the "Consilium Belli or the "Consilium Pacis" have existing members on the date this Bill passes, they shall be subject to this Bill in its entirety. Their two month term of service shall start on the date this Bill passes. Existing Councillors shall not be able to keep their rank after either resigning or their term ending.


    Revision History:


    V 1.6.2
    - Renamed each Council (to Latin equivalents)

    V 1.5.2
    - Removed rank section

    V 1.4.2
    - Incoprporated Addendum I into the text of the Bill, thus creating a new section detailing the rank of Councillor.

    V 1.3.2
    - Added Addendum II making this bill retroactive to Councillors appointed or elected under the existing Councils Act

    V 1.2.2
    - In Council of Peace election and Council of War Appointment, the opening of candidates threads is left to the discretion of the Curator with the inention that he aim to synchronise elections as much as is reasonably possible.

    - References to "Staff" opening candidates threads have been replaced with "Curator" which it is implied also includes Pro-Curator, who isnt himself a staff member.

    - Small grammar changes for clarity and: "the candidate who receives the plurality of votes receives the position on the Council of Peace". and councillors becomes Councillors in a few instances.

    V 1.1.1
    - Changed wording of line which directs reader to council of peace election section.. was bugging me..

    V 1.1
    - Changed Term length from 1 to 2 months and adjusted sentence structure accordingly.
    - Made terms based on individual council members, not the council itself.
    Last edited by Spiff; June 16, 2006 at 02:07 PM.
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  2. #2
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    I support this version.... no problems that I can see, personally, though I'm sure someone will point something out...

  3. #3
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    I wasnt sure on the terms though, should they maybe be two months or is monthly fine?
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  4. #4
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Well the current draft of the elected CdeC says 2 months, so maybe ring them into line then... which means 2 months apiece.

  5. #5
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    ah so it does, i didnt even notice. But then again maybe monthly is better as it allows more people to take part.. only 4 are elected here whereas 8 are elected for the CdeC.


    If anyones wondering by the way, my reasoning behind allowing consecutive terms was simply an attempted safeguard to not enough people standing for election or appointment, as i cans see standing for the CdeC being more high profile.
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  6. #6
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiff
    ah so it does, i didnt even notice. But then again maybe monthly is better as it allows more people to take part.. only 4 are elected here whereas 8 are elected for the CdeC.


    If anyones wondering by the way, my reasoning behind allowing consecutive terms was simply an attempted safeguard to not enough people standing for election or appointment, as i cans see standing for the CdeC being more high profile.
    Anyway, I think a two month term really is the minimum. I don't think people who step down during a two month term need to be replaced either. Resignations aren't going to affect the councils functioning significantly over such short periods. In all I think councils should be elected in their entirety on fixed dates with the sitting council remaining in place until the vote is concluded.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  7. #7
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    ok ill change it to two month terms, but im not sure i agree about resignations. Whats to say if every single member resigned at the start of the two months? We'd have to wait until the next election
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  8. #8
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiff
    ah so it does, i didnt even notice. But then again maybe monthly is better as it allows more people to take part.. only 4 are elected here whereas 8 are elected for the CdeC.
    Nah, you can't get anything done monthly, let's equalise the terms, it just makes more sense... the turnover really doesn't matter, surely?
    If anyones wondering by the way, my reasoning behind allowing consecutive terms was simply an attempted safeguard to not enough people standing for election or appointment, as i cans see standing for the CdeC being more high profile.
    Plus there's all the arguments that were put forward in the CdeC thread... re-election allows freedom of choice for the Curia...

    We do need to replace those who step down, just make it individual terms for each member and it'll evolve kind of organically really...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    I fully support this version, I think it gives more flexibility over a system in which Staff makes the rullings, and more orginised and swifter then a system in which all Citivates pitch forward their opinions

  10. #10
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Ok read it again now, changes have been made
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  11. #11
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Okay, I support and like that version, nice one.

  12. #12
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    I also support this latest version.
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  13. #13
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiff
    Whats to say if every single member resigned at the start of the two months? We'd have to wait until the next election
    That is possible, but seems unlikely to happen. It could be solved by stipulating that if, say, half its members have resigned the whole council needs to be re-elected.

    In any case the risk of a depleted council has to be weighed against two major disadvantages of the current proposal that synchronizing elections at fixed times would solve. In the present proposal:

    1) Terms for individual positions will start to diverge when people step down before their term expires. With a council of four and a two month term you end up with an election every two weeks on average. Apart from causing "election fatigue" I doubt it is beneficial to the council's functioning if its composition is in continuous flux.

    2) Opening a vote when a term expires or a resignation takes place causes a hiatus of 10 (3 qualifying and 7 for the vote) days between the moment a councillor steps down and a new one enters office.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  14. #14
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Muizer, on the other hand, an understaffed council, especially when its only four to begin with, is a problem in itself!

  15. #15
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by the Grim Squeaker
    Muizer, on the other hand, an understaffed council, especially when its only four to begin with, is a problem in itself!
    What I'm saying is it is better to let a council of 3 complete a term together than to indroduce a system where the council composition changes all the time. If a second member steps down a new council should be elected immediatley. On second thought that means scrapping the fixed dates I proposed. Important thing is that a council acts together as a cohesive unit for a term, meaning they should start and finish together as much as possible.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  16. #16
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    That will, in general happen. On a term of two months people won't be taking it to resign after a week or so...

  17. #17
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    To be honest i cannot see many people resigning from one of the councils, especialy in the initial few months, and if they wanted to they could simply be asked to stay on until the next body of elections are due - which would help keep things staffed and in synch. Election fatigue as you say is a pretty major drawback if things did start to get a bit unfocussed.

    Essentially then we have to balance the prospect of an already small group of people being understaffed with the potential irregular election dates i suppose.. i dont think either situation is ideal but in the end with only 4 councilors, the shorter the time between resignation and someone else being elected the better.

    for the 10 day delay bit, the only thing i could suggest would be allowing the curator some discretion in when to open a candidates thread

    When a Council members term is due to end or a councillor resigns, staff will choose when to open a candidates thread and post an announcement in the Curia which shall remain open for 72 hours

    Perhaps this will help better synchronise elctions? Im not sure to be honest
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  18. #18
    Muizer's Avatar member 3519
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiff
    When a Council members term is due to end or a councillor resigns, staff will choose when to open a candidates thread and post an announcement in the Curia which shall remain open for 72 hours

    Perhaps this will help better synchronise elctions? Im not sure to be honest
    It will help. The nominations thread would have to be opened 10 days before a councillor's term expires to ensure continuity.

    Remains the issue of elections going out of sync. I agree it will not happen all that often that a councillor doesn't complete a term, but it just takes a few to desync the lot. As it is there is no natural mechanism to get things back in sync again except postpone the election of a new councillor to coincide with the end of term election of the others, which is what I am suggesting.
    "Lay these words to heart, Lucilius, that you may scorn the pleasure which comes from the applause of the majority. Many men praise you; but have you any reason for being pleased with yourself, if you are a person whom the many can understand?" - Lucius Annaeus Seneca -

  19. #19
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Is there a benefit to it being in sync? No, really... what benefit is there, to put it another way.

  20. #20
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
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    Default Re: Councils Proposal

    Being in synch makes the system smoother and puts more emphasis on the elections which encourages more people to vote i suppose. Election fatigue was the main problem Muizer pointed out
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