[Discussion] Where we Stand

[m_1512]

Completely agree, next time if I apply you will still find the word.
Also I would like to see people in the cdec who actually know how complicate a mod can be.
In the cded there should be a citizen cdec and artifex cdec. And then not only people who mod RTW 2 from each total war game would be good. ETW and NTW could Actually share 2 people.

Bot not criticize anyone but I'm turned down on saying "furher" and lack of content. Though most of the people in the cdec don't even know how to mod ETW/NTW.. Which seems pretty unfair to me.

Then the cdec send in my case a pm to the people who learned me modding with questions in it. But the guy who learned me 80% wasn't asked anything. He could have easy told everyone how hard it is as a beginner.

This is not me being mad at anyone but really my thoughts about it

Please feel free to move this if you find it in wrong location.

[Legio]

It's not you; it's me. We had a really great thing going and I'll always remember it. But I think it's time that we....oh God, do I have to say it? I think we should see other people. It's hard for me to say this. It really is. I had some of the best times of my life when I was with you. I'm going to remember them. But...I can't help but feel as if we're stagnating. Like we're going nowhere. We used to take road trips, damn it. I just...ugh.


Just tell me where we stand.





On topic: Where do we stand on what, exactly? Unreleased modding work? It varies from Councilor to Councilor.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

That Moderator Legio/Niko is such a hunk. What a Greek/Polish adonis...But he's soooo far out of my class/league...

OT:

In the cded there should be a citizen cdec and artifex cdec.

I've seen the reviews of modders who produce unbeleivable results, crash and burn because they cut corners/took shortcuts when it came to modders permission edicate and stealing other modders work.* In more than one of these instances the councilor who 1st caught the errors was'nt a modder.

Meeting the basic solid citizenship criteria is 50% of the application. If applicants fail to meet this ctriteria then the application tanks no matter how superb the contributions may be.

In modding applications, if there is tangible vocalization by the modding councilors, then the dumb dumbs like me have plenty info to extend and finish their researching with. When there is minimal vocalization, that's when modding appls crash and burn.{become contested and risk being invalidated}


*Most of these applications are never seen because the applicant chooses to keep them private. Just like 98% of the disiplinary cases.

[Magicman2051]

We could always try reviving the Guilds idea.

[Aikanár]

I don't think there's any need for even more bureaucracy, honestly.
If we wanna put things on top of other things we've plenty of things to be topped, but of course topping our topped thing by dividing it would actually put two things on top of other things if you know what I'm saying.
That said, of course everyone can understand someone being disappointed when the own perception of work done and the perception of others regarding these contributions rendered differ in such a way, as that the result of the difference is a decline of the desire. This is just plain human and completely comprehensible.
In the way the CdeC works, with just some basic constituionalized requirements needed to apply for citizenship on the technical side and the total freedom of discretion of the councillors when it comes to determin whether or not the applicant might have done enough to be promoted, there are plenty of tactics and ways to try to achieve what you desire.
From waiting until the "hardcore" councillors are out of business to overwhelming the councillors with information there are so many ways of trying to achieve your desire.
The easiest way is just to wait a little longer and to contribute a little more

[Ishan]

[Silent Assassin]

Well here is what I posted in the Curia Thread:

Originally Posted by General Brewster
Completely agree, next time if I apply you will still find the word.
Also I would like to see people in the cdec who actually know how complicate a mod can be.
In the cded there should be a citizen cdec and artifex cdec. And then not only people who mod RTW 2 from each total war game would be good. ETW and NTW could Actually share 2 people.

Bot not criticize anyone but I'm turned down on saying "furher" and lack of content. Though most of the people in the cdec don't even know how to mod ETW/NTW.. Which seems pretty unfair to me.

Then the cdec send in my case a pm to the people who learned me modding with questions in it. But the guy who learned me 80% wasn't asked anything. He could have easy told everyone how hard it is as a beginner.

This is not me being mad at anyone but really my thoughts about it

Posted by SA
I can honestly say that I have no modding experience but I know that it's lopts of work (a friend of mine does that) and I can assure you that some of the present CdeC Councillors have experience with modding and they all said the same, sorry if you feel like you have been mis-judged.

I'm sure you will pass next time.

[m_1512]

Well, apart from the angry outburst, which too I wanted to see what citizenry thought about it, there was another thing there.

There was the question there raised about the CdeC. And he also presented an idea which would unfeasible unless tweaked in some way.

@magicman: That would kind of make the whole OP quote pointless.
Guild -> No CVRIA -> No CdeC -> No Application.

[Magicman2051]

In the cded there should be a citizen cdec and artifex cdec.

Just replace CdeC with "bunch of people who vote" and you've got guilds.

[Silent Assassin]

Just replace CdeC with "bunch of people who vote" and you've got guilds.

Not a good idea IMO

[shokh]

I can see this discussions about this since i joined the TWC, and i have to admit they are not present without their right.
Also there where some times where different people complained about this fact.

It´s for sure not the fault of the CdeC members who tried everytime to inform but such things cannot be asked, you have to tried it by your own to get as much familar that you can decide in a objective way between a yes or no.
At least you cannot compare any part of modding in different engines here.

I´ve always been a silent observer of the CdeC judgements and must say there where in my sight some false decisions in both ways. I will not admit that i´m always right but i guess i have enough experience to can say what work is deserving a honouration and which not.
There where artefix applications who passed and i thought "Do they know that all or most of this work is not even special or not more then absolute basic work for bloody beginners?" and others which where exact in the different way.
I can remember that i´ve one time stated this to a CdeC member after voting in one case where i simple thought "Why?". In the next cases i didn´t it because i thought it will change nothing.

And no, i will not point you to such applications because i´m not interessted in offending anybody (as i know that enough will take such an action personally).

At the end i have to say "Yes i also see that there should be a more balanced Jury".
No worry, i don´t apply now so this should not be taken as attemp from my side to improve chances.
It´s only my point of view and i know that enough other share it, especially warscape modders.

So why not balance the CdeC out? There are 12 seats, why not 6 for modders and 6 for citizen, but all judge for sure as now.
I mean do the CdeC now have any member who have knowledge of modding the warscape engine?

Don´t take me wrong it should not be a 2 class system, i respect all contributions not only modding.

[Legio]

Who gets to decide what a modder is? Just someone who knows how to tweak their personal game or do they have to have something released? What if they haven't released anything in a while? Do they lose their status? 6 for citizen alone? Why not a 4-4-4 system for modders, debaters, and content? What about people who don't fit any of those categories? 3-3-3-3 for modders, debaters, content, and other? Among the modders what would the representation be? 1 Rome, 1 Medieval II, 1 Warscape? Or 1 for Rome and MII with 1 for ETW/NTW and 1 for TWS2? Or do we just elect it as usual for the 'modder' seat? What happens if 3 non-warscape modders win?

[Romanos IV]

I agree with Legio, the CdeC system is as good as it gets atm.

[shokh]

Who gets to decide what a modder is? Just someone who knows how to tweak their personal game or do they have to have something released? What if they haven't released anything in a while? Do they lose their status?

Do we now need to show a diplom for CdeC seats?
Nope, the word of a member should and would be enough, if we start to not trust we go in a bad way.
For example someone who have experience with modding because he did it more often at home without sharing, and he can say he is familar with such tasks - this will fit.

6 for citizen alone? Why not a 4-4-4 system for modders, debaters, and content? What about people who don't fit any of those categories? 3-3-3-3 for modders, debaters, content, and other? Among the modders what would the representation be? 1 Rome, 1 Medieval II, 1 Warscape? Or 1 for Rome and MII with 1 for ETW/NTW and 1 for TWS2? Or do we just elect it as usual for the 'modder' seat? What happens if 3 non-warscape modders win?

All better then now simple 12...

We don´t need here hard rules like "exact 4 - 4 - 4", don´t know why to be stickler in details here.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

So why not balance the CdeC out? There are 12 seats, why not 6 for modders and 6 for citizen, but all judge for sure as now.

Human fraility and "real life" will erode this wonderous dream of you'alls...Each CdeC election you get to choose from those that have the time and interest at that given moment{election}. Your options will range from tons of chioces to barely getting any three people to apply. It just depends on everyday distractions.

Now add in these restrictions...6 modders, 6 non modders. Get ready for the nightmare. Unqualified people and perhaps empty seats. IMO there's way too much everyday attrition that affects CdeC councilors as is....
"Just saying"...

[shokh]

I agree with Legio, the CdeC system is as good as it gets atm.

All is fine as long someone is not affected by his own.

[shokh]

Human fraility and "real life" will erode this wonderous dream of you'alls...Each CdeC election you get to choose from those that have the time and interest at that given moment{election}. Your options will range from tons of chioces to barely getting any three people to apply. It just depends on everyday distractions.

Now add in these restrictions...6 modders, 6 non modders. Get ready for the nightmare. Unqualified people and perhaps empty seats. IMO there's way too much everyday attrition that affects CdeC councilors as is....
"Just saying"...

Yeah sure, i have said it a bit wrong in the first time.
It should not be that strict 6-6, it was only to demonstrate a balance.
As i´ve written to legio´s post it should be no hard rule but kept in mind and to watch over it. At least one of each section should be in place, would be for sure better.

[Legio]

How is that not possible now? There's certainly no issue of having a shortage of Warscape modders who apply for the seat.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Truthfully the system does include errors..."Each application is a different universe and world unto itself." Given that...some get elected{heat of the moment} that should'nt and unfortunately worthy souls slip through the cracks. Sometimes more than once...

A close friend of mine used to come cry on my shoulder every time "in retrospect" he thought he voted wrong...giving asension to the unworthy and also condeming the worthy to failure, briused egos, and at least another month in limbo, til they tried again.

[shokh]

@ legio

And how many where in service the last year for example?
There should be at least one seat per contribution sector reserved for such applications, if no one comes then open for all.

Everytime this is discussed no one will hear it, but often enough people complain about this situation.
It´s not on me to think about why this happen, this should do others if they are really have an ear open for all sections of TWC and not only in their section, i tried only to bring in my point of view.
I always thought this is a modding site with equal amount of other contributions mostly around this.
But at the moment it feels different, and no one like changes at all.