Isengard: a little bit TOO DAMN hard?

[eugenioso]

its one thing to give the enemy a full stack every time you siege some worthless settlement. its another to give them free spawning armies that attempt to retake a settlement that they just lost (armies with zero upkeep). its yet another to make me siege edoras, beat a relief attempt, get pushed back, and lose edoras to 2 goblin generals.

all of these factors alone make it a goddamn inferno to try and play isengard successfully. right now im in turn 162 and have finally conquered Rohan completely (retaking edoras and warring the OOTMM), the southwestern part of Gondor, half of eriador (now arnor) and pushing both east against gondor, north against the elves and northwest against the other elves. with any other faction, by this turns im usually already close to winning the campaign, but isengard is ridiculously hard. easily the hardest faction.

what im trying to say is that if you want someone to play as them, give a warning or something.

[Incredible Bulk]

Yes we know this and?

[Warlord Skorr]

Yes we know this and?

A new player might not know this. I certainly didn't when I first downloaded this mod.

Someone fresh off of the Two Towers might go into this mod expecting Isengard to be a powerhouse and be rudely corrected. First impressions matter a lot, and it might overshadow the rest of the gaming experience for some.

I certainly would have had a better time if I hadn't lost 20-odd hours trying to make my first Isengard campaign work only to be beaten down by stack spam. If I had any reason to suspect that 'can do VH/VH on Vanilla M2TW' translated to 'stick to M/VH as Isengard', I would have had only good experiences in 2.0.

I'd suggest a Campaign difficulty rating on the Faction selection screen like CA put in the Kingdoms manual ie Isengard: Hard, High Elves: Easy, Gondor: Medium-Hard

Normally, I don't think those would be necessary, but a lot of the campaign difficulties for various factions can't be guessed from their map positioning alone.

[eugenioso]

exactly my point. that was what i was expecting when i first dled the mod a year or two ago. back then it was actually easier than it is now. less spam stack, and garrison scripts were not as incredibly severe as the ones now. i thought "well ok, isengard was doing very well before that whole Ent/Huorn affair" and even then when isengard lost the hornburg battle he could still breed another uruk army eventually, maybe not immediately but it sure as hell would have been a costly siege by rohan. instead, you start undermanned, underpowered and facing the best mounted force in middle earth with nothing but swordsmen and the occasional orthanc guard.

i get that they made it so that the game wouldnt be a pushover, but im a vet from Shogun 1 total war, and this campaign had me grinding my teeth all the way. sure, turn 165 is safe now, but im busy with 3 fronts (4 if i count the damn goblins) and progress is slow and costly. i guess they wanted to make sure that even if you had an impressive economy and army the game would still prove a challenge.

[Dutch-Balrog]

On what difficulty do you play? And btw, isengard isnt hard if you use sarumans strategy. Become friends with every1 first en get traderights with every1, when you got a good economy to keep several armies focus on rohan.

[Wizad]

On what difficulty do you play? And btw, isengard isnt hard if you use sarumans strategy. Become friends with every1 first en get traderights with every1, when you got a good economy to keep several armies focus on rohan.

Too bad High Elves and Eriador attack you if you take Tharbad and that settlement west of it. That leaves only the Silvan Elves and the OotMM to trade with.

My first campaign was with Isengard as well. I got brutally crushed by attack spam when I took the Hornburg early. I'm pretty sure I could do better with the experience I have now.

So yes a warning on the faction selection screen would be nice.

[Dutch-Balrog]

Just get used with the new gameplay and difficulty level and it will eventually get easy. Dont play on very hard but on medium instead, very hard means litterally very hard in third age total war. Try an easy faction first like the high elves to get used to the gameplay.

[Wizad]

I've already finished SE, Harad, Rohan and OotMM campaigns.

Now doing Eriador.

[Shingen]

Too bad High Elves and Eriador attack you if you take Tharbad and that settlement west of it. That leaves only the Silvan Elves and the OotMM to trade with.

My first campaign was with Isengard as well. I got brutally crushed by attack spam when I took the Hornburg early. I'm pretty sure I could do better with the experience I have now.

So yes a warning on the faction selection screen would be nice.

If your garision in Tharbad is not too small they wont attack you. To get peace with Rohan, ally with Gondor by giving them money. Doing this you can easily keep peace for atleast 50 turns. After that time you are able to recuit the very powerful high tier units of Isengard. They can deal with any threat.

If you own Tharbad it is easy to get Hillmen mercenaries. They help alot. The cav for catching routing enemies and the javlins of the Axemen are good to kill enemy generals.

Saurons eye infront of units = only available while crusade

[Artorius798]

I do not think the creators of this mod expect us to win without cheating. Without cheats, we can barely have 2 stacks and every town we take near ennemy territory will be constantly sieged non-stop no matter how many troops you kill.

[Gallus]

Orc factions need to be reworked in 3.2 or 4.0. The funny thing is, it's actually just an hour's work. All you need to do is lower the recruitment and upkeep costs and make the units a bit weaker.

[Wizad]

I do not think the creators of this mod expect us to win without cheating

ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Dutch-Balrog]

I can win a gondor campaign on hard, and gondor is way harder then isengard, so just take your time to learn the game. No cheats needed.

[Ddos]

I've played Isengard a few times now with varying succes.

It's depicted as a powerhouse in the movies/other games, but in third age you'll mostly be fighting with snaga and hillmen which imo kinda ruined the experience early game.

[Macilrille]

I say again, the movies are NOT a valid and credible source. Their validity is the same as 300 or 13th Warrior on their respective subjects.

That being said, the books depict Isengard in TA 3018, like a powerhouse as well. But that is after 38 years of buildup in secret while at peace counted from start of TATW. Perhaps the idea of peaceful interaction is better then open war? I do not know, I have not played Isengard and I find economies in TATW to be very weak in any case unless you blitz, as the berserk TW AI will attack you with stackspam in any case.

[eugenioso]

I can win a gondor campaign on hard, and gondor is way harder then isengard, so just take your time to learn the game. No cheats needed.

allow me to go over some things:

1.- i do NOT make peace with the good factions. i dont exploit the game engine like you do. if im at war with the good factions then it only ends when theyre dead or i am. same goes for trade agreements. ive gotten trade offers even from gondor before they attacked me, but ive only accepted harad and rhun's trade deals. so the first thing i guess is, dont brag about being good while exploting the game engine.

2.- the "get good economy and then attack" strategy would work... if you werent already at war with rohan. if you take a while to get a good economy while sitting on your butt rohan will gather an army and march onto your lands. early small scale attacks are the way to go.

3.- gondor is a piece of cake when compared to isengard. they "only" need to focus on 3 enemies and have a much better unit production potential and economic one as well.


last, please dont sound so prepotent on a gaming forum, or you will be destroyed.

[Dutch-Balrog]

The economy of the game is editable for each faction by just increasing the 'kings purse' for that faction. You can do it in the ''descr_strat'' found in 'Medieval II Total War\mods\americas\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign'. Just press ctrl+F while in the file and type in 'kings' and you'll find it. Just double it for Isengard if you want it to be easier.

*1.- i do NOT make peace with the good factions.*

This isn't smart for Isengard.. Doesnt matter if you like it or not. But that's how it is unless you want to have a stressing game.

*2.- the "get good economy and then attack" strategy would work... if you werent already at war with rohan.*

Then just make peace and ally with Gondor so they won't attack you untill you are ready for war.

*3.- gondor is a piece of cake when compared to isengard. they "only" need to focus on 3 enemies and have a much better unit production potential and economic one as well.*

Most players have more trouble with Gondor then Isengard, you think Gondor is easier because you make Isengard harder for yourself.

*last, please dont sound so prepotent on a gaming forum, or you will be destroyed.*

I'm just trying to help you to get through the Isengard campaign... And i won't be destroyed. I guess i'll just stop trying to help you, you dont listen to any tips anyway it seems.

[eugenioso]

@dutchbalrog

are... you... serious? hahhaha. ok... why dont you ask people then?

ally with the good side, even though noone would do that.

trade deals with everyone, even though elves would NEVER trade with orcs

gondor is harder than isengard, even though its clearly incredibly easier. gondor can afford to lose some cities. gondor can produce better military than isengard. better economy. chokepoints. does isengard get ANY of those? NOOOO.


but seriously, ask the people. if you want to play like that, exploiting the game, go ahead. just stop saying its easy and you are so good (implied)

[Cathedralsquares]

Isengard has the second most difficult campaign if not the first. The first 50 turns are you holding on by the skin of your teeth, probably after having lost all of your other territories and just defending the bridge into Isengard. After turn 50 when you can get your good troops you stand a legitimate chance, but before that bite the pillow. Rohan's going in dry.

[eugenioso]

Isengard has the second most difficult campaign if not the first. The first 50 turns are you holding on by the skin of your teeth, probably after having lost all of your other territories and just defending the bridge into Isengard. After turn 50 when you can get your good troops you stand a legitimate chance, but before that bite the pillow. Rohan's going in dry.

who do you think is 1st?