What faction do you most want added in the 1220 late era campaign?

[Irishpsycho]

@Paragon, I'm not saying that Ireland, Milan, the Latin Empire, the Despotate of Epirus, or the Empire of Trebizond are important enough to be represented as factions, I'm saying that pathetic as they were, their accomplishments after 1220 are still each individually greater than those of the Kwarezmians after 1220. All of them lasted at least 41 years, Ireland fought the English for centuries, Milan became a powerful and important city-state, the Latin Empire was a part of a huge amount of conflicts, the despotate of Epirus took control of most of the southern Balkans, and the Empire of Trebizond at various times expanded and contracted, while remaining relevant until the 1450's. The Kwarezmians, by contrast, existed as a vassal state for 20 years, until they were simply deemed so unimportant that even real life where there is no faction limit or unit limit they didn't make the cut. Contrasing that with Bulgaria's huge empire, or Burgundys long existance and participation as the third major power in the 100 years war totally eclipses all of these little factions, but even among them the Kwarezmian contribution was the least.

Kiev should indeed be removed, and replaced with another Russian state, or, if we do go for a later start date, maybe replaced with the White horde.

Sicily/Southern Italy did not become independant again for any length of time, being ruled mostly by aragon/spain and france after the HRE was driven out, so not only do they not exist in 1220, they never existed later either.

As for making the Kwarezmians vassals, that cannot be programmed to happen at the start of the game, and besides, the Kwarezmian contribution could be entirely summed up by giving the mongols two of their units.

[Ferdiad]

The Normans just got assimilated and Ireland was basically independent until the Tudors. You can't show that ingame on this engine.

[Paragon]

Contrasing that with Bulgaria's huge empire, or Burgundys long existance and participation as the third major power in the 100 years war totally eclipses all of these little factions, but even among them the Kwarezmian contribution was the least.

Kiev should indeed be removed, and replaced with another Russian state, or, if we do go for a later start date, maybe replaced with the White horde.

Sicily/Southern Italy did not become independant again for any length of time, being ruled mostly by aragon/spain and france after the HRE was driven out, so not only do they not exist in 1220, they never existed later either.

As for making the Kwarezmians vassals, that cannot be programmed to happen at the start of the game, and besides, the Kwarezmian contribution could be entirely summed up by giving the mongols two of their units.

Bulgaria's huge empire that lasted 20 years?

Still it bugs me having the HRE at full war with Aragon for their campain targets and I guess making an event to make them rebels is asking too much.

Anyways I think I get your point way better than at your first post, but still there are to much ifs. I don't know if they will be able to fit 3 o 4 factions more removing what you want to remove, I don't know if factions really leave free space simply my being removed from an era and still being in the other. Maybe giving a few Persia units to the mongols is a good a idea, but what do we do to their settlements? The mongols have 10+ settlements just like that at the beginning? That wouldn't avoid their bankrupt but still...

Let's see what does the staff make out of this thread anyway, they are the ones who know how to make this, I'll think about my vote.

[Mausolos of Caria]

It would be good to have someone from the SS mod team finally clarify if removing a faction from the early campaign frees up a faction slot for it, or if it has to be removed from both campaigns.
Otherwise all these discussions would be a bit pointless, if we can only have one more faction anway

[Paragon]

This also helped, I believed a faction can start as a vassal (which would be the "realistic" way to represent the fasion fusions listed here) and the informatio cited can help people to decide whcih faction to vote.

I still prefer Persia and Sicily as factions (not the Timurids though) and Bulgaria and the Abasidds in that order for new ones of the are introducted, but that's my personal opinion about what improves gameplay and not the importance of a real faction over time, so discussing it is pointless.

[XxXxMarioxXxX]

http://geacron.com/home-en/?sid=GeaCron767173

[Paragon]

That's gotta be the second most useful thing I have found in four days. Verily I thank you italian pumbler pal.
Also it would be really bad if we removed Genoa and Venice too for what I see in the 1220 map...

[Ferdiad]

Nobody has ever wanted to remove them...

[Paragon]

My bad, I watched it in small zoom and thought Genoa and Venice were from the HRE too. I guess we can have them like they are right know.

Btw Ferdiad I would swear that just a week or so ago you barely had 12.000 or so posts...

[Ferdiad]

Venice was pretty important during this period, Genoa not as much but they still deserve a slot.

[Bob Doad]

My bad, I watched it in small zoom and thought Genoa and Venice were from the HRE too. I guess we can have them like they are right know.

Btw Ferdiad I would swear that just a week or so ago you barely had 12.000 or so posts...

He probably did but he posts QUITE A LOT

[Paragon]

He probably did but he posts QUITE A LOT

And live 30 years with the Borgias!

No seriously I don't care about having reputation but I love the menssages.

[vtec.dominion]

Easily ... Serbia !!!

[Tytos Lannister]

Georgia would be nice.

[Chazz1225]

I can't see another Scandinavian faction being added, people are only picking Sweden cause they live there! It'll be too crowded once outside faction like Novgorod or Scotland try and invade, the only faction that needs to be addd is one that bring balance to an area, Abbasids are the only logical choice so that the Fatties can be subdued for once

[Baltic Warrior]

Any faction in the balkans or more further east will be good, there are also too many catholic factions, so that is another reason why not want to add them.

[The-Monetary]

Georgia. They fight the Mongols successfully what i wouldn't give to see that. id also like the Mongols to appear deeper in tbh the Mongols don't get anywhere. Spawning some Scripted Mongol generals outside Kiev and Novgorod would be nice.

[Kaidonni]

Personally, for my submod I've gone with Armenia and Bulgaria as two new factions, but I'm also swapping out others. Genoa...meh, it certainly didn't deserve a place in the early era, and for a 1220-ish start date, there are more prominent factions around. Factions that come to mind are the Zengids and the Attabegs of Mosul, the Vladimir-Suzdal, and the Volga Bulgarians (okay they are shortlived, but when you're creating a submod for a 12 tpy mod, 'shortlived' is a relative term ).

The-Monetary...darn you! You've made me want to add Georgia in now! They're bloomin' awkward too, especially in 1225. I aim for historically accurate family trees, and theirs is somewhat tricky since their leader is a Queen (Rusudan). It means I'd have to make their leader the under-age son of that Queen's *dead* brother, Giorgi IV.

[ROYAL SIPHAI]

Abbassid FTW!!!!!!!!

For once Baghdad will be a profitable city. Abbassids were powerful during their peak. If they did not fight the Chinese we would not get paper

[Asterix]

SERBIA! Next two picks are Georgia or a Muslim faction, don't care which. The Balkans are decidedly devoid of factions, it's always just fought over by the Hungarians, Byzantines, and the Venetians.