What faction do you most want added in the 1220 late era campaign?

[Ferdiad]

You can have Sweden on the Grand Campaign with BftB.

[Korsan82]

I dont understand how Georgia is more important than Seljuks of Rum, the founders of the Ottoman Empire....
Seljuks of Rum are a MUST.

[Ferdiad]

They are and no they're not.

[Dxman]

You can have Sweden on the Grand Campaign with BftB.

realy? i just installed it, could you tell me how? but still, sweden should be in the new version, they could take away norway or something

[Ferdiad]

No idea but I'm fairly sure you can.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

I never play the late campaign, but assuming this is for 7.0, the Abbasids sound pretty good. I'd also say the Swedes, but dont know if they are defacto includes or if Caesar will make a newBattle for the Baltic(poor guy, seems like he has to make a new one every other day! )

And I'll agree with Feridad too, should be later than 1220. I'd say 1300. Part of the reason I never bother with the Late Campaign is that the time hasnt changed that much. Maybe if it was later, I could play as a small faction and work my way up in a new era

Edit: Yeah, Sweden is in the Grand Campaign with Battle for the Baltic. Just install it and it'll be there. If its not..go to the board for it and ask for help o_o

[Ritterbruder44]

realy? i just installed it, could you tell me how? but still, sweden should be in the new version, they could take away norway or something

so your suggestion is to take away a faction that existed in the vanilla and replace them with a new one that hasn't been fully made yet

oh you fanboys, you make me lolz

[Dxman]

so your suggestion is to take away a faction that existed in the vanilla and replace them with a new one that hasn't been fully made yet

oh you fanboys, you make me lolz

well isent it the whole idea? to make something new, and besides, dont think it would be a major jobb switching norway with sweden, its not like you are switching norway with portugal or something, and since sweden is in the poll they obviusly have thought about it, otherwise they wouldent made it possible to vote for it..

all i am saying is that i would greatly like to see sweden in a real ss version, is it a dream? probibly

[Ferdiad]

Why does Scandinavia deserve some of the Highest concentrations of factions in the map, its doesnt warrent that IMO.

[Ichon]

Why does Scandinavia deserve some of the Highest concentrations of factions in the map, its doesnt warrent that IMO.

If Sweden went in the 1220 campaign most likely Norway would go out. Not that Norway was finished as a kingdom though its politics became ever more entwined with Denmark but that Sweden had some of its most famous wars with Novgorod and interference all around the Baltic in this period while Norway settled to peace with Scotland and England and really did not do much internationally compared to even a century earlier.

By population Scandinavia is over-represented on the map but giving the region only a single faction would create a power vacuum where Novgorod or HRE for example would be there totally looking weird. Also Scandinavia despite its small population was relatively homogenous compared to most of its neighbors and able to exert disproportionate influence due to that.

[Mr Kriegtooth]

Also, just to say, at the risk of angering people, um, Scandanavia is pretty dang awesome. They are small factions with cool units that you can build up, and fight lots of different enemies without being under constant attack. For my tastes thats great.

Oh well, as long as theres a Battle for the Baltic, I'll be happy, since Sweden is my favourite Scandanavian faction

[Alien Eel]

Bulgaria or Georgia, I would add them if possible. Bulgaria because more action on balkans, and Georgia for same reason. Only on caucasus. Sweden, nah. They weren't so great faction on this time as you thought. Abbasids might be also good to add, more muslims.

Remove Sicily, and then we would get all these three.

[Irishpsycho]

for 1220 I would go for

Remove:

Sicily (merged)
Cuman (very brink of being Mongoled)
Kiev (see above)
Seljuq (destroyed)
Khwarezm (mongoled)

And add

Teutonic Order
Suzdal
Sultanate of Rum
Bulgaria
Burgundy

This for sure

Also, replace TO (since they in fact already are included) from the list with Georgia, and replace Norway with Sweden (to passify all the Swede lovers out there). I would also suggest starting the campaign at 1260, since all the eastern territories will already be Mongoled, and because by 1260 the Byzantines were much closer to being reunited, but in 1220 there was still infighting between Nicaea and the other two successor states. That way all the eastern territories wouldn't be about to be couquered, but the Mongols can be represented as a rather large, but not godlike, faction that will most likely be divided among local powers who can focus all their attention on one area. We could even make the Mongols Islamic in 1260 (though I need my history checked to be sure of that).

Edit: Checked and the Il Khanate converted to Islam in the 1290s, but I think making them islamic 30 years earlier wouldn't be too bad.

[RollingWave]

Yeah, for 1220 specifically speaking Sweden over Norway actually make some sense. the difference between 1100 is that in 1100 the Swedes didn't even have a agreed upon king, for that century the Kingship was disputed between at least 2 house and sometimes more. though by the early portion of 1200s that dispute was finally being settled thx to Birger Jarl, so the concept of a united Sweden was finally starting to form, and during this period they also began to do some more serious expansion, such as taking Gotland, and later on Finland, also making some serious attempt in the Baltics etc.

On the other hand, Norway became relatively more quiet at this point, though 1220 was a rather problematic point, since the last seriious Norway war outside of Scandinavia was actually in 1262-63 after this point it is quite reasonable to remove Norway, but then again, the fighting in that point was mostly over the outer islands of the British isles which are too small to represent as settlements. so on a relative context Sweden's impact was still bigger.

[SulleDodger]

I picked Sweden, as at least during the latter years of medieval times and afterwards it has been the dominate country of Sweden and Norway and would make more sense to be in. But I understand why Norway is in for the earlier periods before Sweden.

My second choice would be Burgundy, they were pretty big if I remember right-but it might make HRE smaller and less powerful which might not be what you'd want to do... Or maybe it is exactly what you'd want to do...

EDIT: As for all who say it will be too crowded in the north, replace Norway with Sweden for the late campaign. Makes a lot more sense historically. Keep Norway for the earlier or whatever is best for the modders, I'm sure there's some way to solve it.

[Twelve]

So? Have we got result?

[candi81]

SWEDEN!

[The Kybrothilian]

I do want Sweden in, but I can settle for Sweden to share faction slot with Norway, so that you can play as Norway in early era, and as Sweden in late era.

For the 2 other faction slots (assuming we remove the Timurids), The middle-east seriously needs more factions, Georgia and either Abassids or Zengids would do.

[Bob Doad]

I really want Abassids cause im tired of seeing the crusades work EVERYTIME lol i really think the ME needs more help

[bradavies]

I agree with most in the fact that the ME needs more factions, and I would defo say Georgia and Abbasids. Merging the faction slots for Norway and Sweden would be a great idea also. But a quick question.
People keep saying to remove Sicily, or merge it. Have I missed something? Who would they merge with, and if they are removed, who replaces them, surely you can't just leave them rebel, it would make the Moors unstoppable.