View Poll Results: What faction do you most want added in the 1100 early era campaign?

Voters
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  • Georgia

    37 22.02%
  • Sultanate of Rum

    14 8.33%
  • Serbia

    23 13.69%
  • Shirvanshahs

    3 1.79%
  • Abassids

    29 17.26%
  • Volga Bulgars

    5 2.98%
  • Suzdal

    4 2.38%
  • Pisa

    3 1.79%
  • Croatia

    2 1.19%
  • Zirids

    1 0.60%
  • Danishmends

    2 1.19%
  • Sweden

    19 11.31%
  • Mosul

    0 0%
  • Ireland

    21 12.50%
  • Orkneys

    5 2.98%
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Thread: Realistic Early Era Poll

  1. #21

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    The only thing I might change in the poll is Cilician Armenia switched with Ireland. For some reason I was thinking Cilician Armenia had more impact in 1200s and while the region did not become a kingdom until 1198 it did have some impacts earlier. Ireland while nominally independent was never organized and would be similar to some other areas of the map where control was nebulous and never the center of any conquests.

    Abassids I've been a fan of for a long time having included but in the early era its more difficult as they truly were vassals for most of 1100s and MTW2 does not model that relationship very well as at start of a campaign can only be allies- I've wondered if there is a way to script it though so on turn 2 relationships are changed to vassal along with a notice of the historical situation and ways to break vassalage.

    For the current late campaign I agree Abassids totally as they actually had a large impact 1160-1260 and if not for Mongols could have had a very strong revival. Maybe even an argument around 1136 but they did not really definitely break vassal status until defeating the Seljuk siege in 1157 and the Caliph which was responsible for the rise of Abassids died in 1160 with his Heirs of varying capability.

    I like Volga Bulgars but it would only make sense in the context of also adding Suzdal or some other Rus faction which is not going to happen. I think enough is know to make a basic roster for them.

    As for Sultanate of Rum- here I disagree, the current void in Anatolia is very unrealistic.

    I can see removing Timurids giving 3 open factions as very likely in SS, Georgia, Serbia, Sultanate of Rum would be my choices in early era. Abassids and Mosul would be my 4th and 5th if that ever happened but I doubt Lithuania would be removed- its too fun and would also create a huge power vacuum in Baltic. Teutons... I'd actually wish Teutons to be spawning a bit more powerfully.
    Last edited by Ichon; March 15, 2012 at 12:15 AM.

  2. #22
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    The only thing I might change in the poll is Cilician Armenia switched with Ireland. For some reason I was thinking Cilician Armenia had more impact in 1200s and while the region did not become a kingdom until 1198 it did have some impacts earlier. Ireland while nominally independent was never organized and would be similar to some other areas of the map where control was nebulous and never the center of any conquests.

    Abassids I've been a fan of for a long time having included but in the early era its more difficult as they truly were vassals for most of 1100s and MTW2 does not model that relationship very well as at start of a campaign can only be allies- I've wondered if there is a way to script it though so on turn 2 relationships are changed to vassal along with a notice of the historical situation and ways to break vassalage.

    For the current late campaign I agree Abassids totally as they actually had a large impact 1160-1260 and if not for Mongols could have had a very strong revival. Maybe even an argument around 1136 but they did not really definitely break vassal status until defeating the Seljuk siege in 1157 and the Caliph which was responsible for the rise of Abassids died in 1160 with his Heirs of varying capability.

    I like Volga Bulgars but it would only make sense in the context of also adding Suzdal or some other Rus faction which is not going to happen. I think enough is know to make a basic roster for them.

    As for Sultanate of Rum- here I disagree, the current void in Anatolia is very unrealistic.

    I can see removing Timurids giving 3 open factions as very likely in SS, Georgia, Serbia, Sultanate of Rum would be my choices in early era. Abassids and Mosul would be my 4th and 5th if that ever happened but I doubt Lithuania would be removed- its too fun and would also create a huge power vacuum in Baltic. Teutons... I'd actually wish Teutons to be spawning a bit more powerfully.
    I agree that the power vaccum in Anatolia right now is blah, though if you have Armenia and Georgia both in it would already make that theater much more interesting.

    It is true that the Abbasid were still vassals at 1100, and it wasn't until the even more total collapse of the Seljuqs a bit later on that really made them able to move freely, though to be fair by the time of Al-Mustarshid ( reign 1118 - 1135) they were already had some degree of free-reign. Al-Mustarshid even at one point defeated Zengi (yeah that Zengi, Nur ad-din's father) though he and his sons were ultimately unsuccessful in their attempts of true independence, it was quite clear they could and did have some military capacity.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  3. #23

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Georgia was my pick, id very well support Armenian Cicilia, Serbia or the Abbasids as well. Sweden.... IF YOU WANT TO PLAY SWEDEN GET BFTB!

  4. #24
    Delvecchio1975's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    I was a bit torn between Sweden and Zirid, as i think they both would fit in well in a part of the map that could use some more action. Sicily walks all over the Moors because they have to fight a two front war in Spain and around Tunis. Zirid would be a good buffer there. And Norway is boring as hell when the only way to go is either to Denmark or seabound ...
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  5. #25
    Radiso-FIN's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    My vote goes for Serbia as I think the Balkans are needs a new faction. Similarly Georgia would bring more balance in the Caucasus/Middle-east area and they were relatively powerfull as well.

    So Serbia or Georgia are my choices, can't really decide between them.
    Last edited by Radiso-FIN; March 15, 2012 at 10:01 AM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Stop making those polls, they're biased.

  7. #27
    Epzilon's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by alis_sakfok View Post
    Stop making those polls, they're biased.
    It is nevertheless a fan based modification.

    If you are considering adding Sweden I hope you would expand have more northern territory in Scandinavia if that is technically possible. If it's a trade off between having desert in Africa and Middle-East I would rather have more of Scandinavia.

    That's my humble opinion.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Sweden is not very likely given existence of BftB and SS campaign scale and the timeline but I was curious to see how the votes added after its been up for a few weeks.

  9. #29
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    oops wrong thread, sry
    Last edited by RollingWave; March 15, 2012 at 12:46 PM.
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  10. #30
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Just a comment on factions in general.

    As many player expressed before, SS map is quite large and it will never be possible to satisfy everybody, each faction had their shining moment during Middle Ages but also do not forget this gameplay aspect; the more factions you have, the bigger the impact will be on script limitation and game speed. As you have been aware of the new features what the developers have showned, those additional scripts may or may not affect the gameplay (speaking again on the turn speed). 31 factions (hardcoded limit) is quite a bunch and several players surely have less fun to wait around 1-2 minutes per turn, killing the momentum. It is either a chocie of sacrificing additional factions to integrate more script features and reduce the load on game speed or adding more factions but limiting certain complex features the developers may add.

    Just my 2 cent.

  11. #31
    RollingWave's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    That is correct , BUT, what is also true is that most folks are also gradually upgrading their computers, so the limits they could take is considerablly different then when say... SS 6.1 was first released .
    1180, an unprecedented period of peace and prosperity in East Asia, it's technology and wealth is the envy of the world. But soon conflict will engulf the entire region with great consequences and lasting effects for centuries to come, not just for this region, but the entire known world, when one man, one people, unites.....

  12. #32

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    In my opinion its better to get the map and rosters solid and then work on additional scripting for enhanced features since map and factions affect all scripts. Something like SS that is already quite big really redoing map and factions might seem more work than adding new features.

  13. #33
    Mega Tortas de Bodemloze's Avatar Let's Get After It
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll


    IbnBattuta


    The Abassids get my vote. I really enjoyed the faction, when I learned about/experianced them playing Broken Crescent. {I know their availible currently in sub mods, but it would be nice to see them in Base SS.}
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  14. #34

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Ireland.
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  15. #35
    Jambat's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by RollingWave View Post
    1.Abbasid (iconically significant, and did reexpand for awhile in the late 12th early 13th C before they got mongoled)
    That should be a saying around here.

    'You just got mongoled, son!'
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  16. #36
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    In my opinion its better to get the map and rosters solid and then work on additional scripting for enhanced features since map and factions affect all scripts. Something like SS that is already quite big really redoing map and factions might seem more work than adding new features.
    If there will be a vote for this option, I would go with this one mate.

  17. #37
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Its pretty clear that Georgia is the most wanted factiom.

  18. #38

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Navajo Joe View Post
    Ferdiad,

    Please never say that to a Welshman, you end up wearing Leeks stuck up your nose and daffodils in your ears.

    Although seriously, Wales caused the Normans, later the English considerably more problems than the Scots. Wales as more castles per square mile than any other country in the world. Lets face it Edward thought it was important to quell the Welsh my building the great castles of Conwy, Harlech, Caernarvon and Beaumaris
    Wales did invade england and it was very hard to repress, if you have scotland, wales deserves a place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    Wales were a foil for England not really invading elsewhere By this logic scotland really doesnt deserve a place, there are other factions that had a bigger impact on world events. and not a center of religious conversion like Ireland who sent missionaries back to the continent some of whom were martyred among the Prussians and Lithuanians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichon View Post
    The chances of Ireland reappearing in the main campaign are very low. In a submod however... I plan one for 7.0 But not a greatly serious one if im honest

    The main reason to include them was for comprehensiveness but most likely any new factions for the main campaign will come from the top 5 factions listed.

    Pisa would be to make Italy more complex but its not very likely. Sultanate of Rum would be another Turk faction which some may not like but its badly needed to balance Anatolia and seems a better candidate then Danishmends which did not last that long in history compared to Sultanate of Rum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ferdiad View Post
    Unless they put a Landbridge from Scotland to Ireland they will still be useless.
    By this logic scotland and england are useless as they rarely invade the continent and if they lose the first settlement they get there they basicly sit in the UK.

    But scripted random invasions are the best way to fix that imo.
    Last edited by David93; March 15, 2012 at 06:07 PM.

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  19. #39
    Navajo Joe's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    I absoluetly agree with all in David 93's post, the Welsh deserve a place as much as the Scots. Scotland is only in the mod because of the film 'Braveheart' and the Battle of Stirling and of course Bannockburn, where Scotland earned its freedom. The Welsh fought the English, they did such a good job, that the Normans then the English had to build castles to keep hold of the land. The will of the Welsh cannot be underestimated to keep their identity, sadly they squabbled amongst themselves as well as the English.





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  20. #40

    Default Re: Realistic Early Era Poll

    I have suggested in the past to drop Scotland actually because I agree with many of the points. The main difference is that Scotland was more unified with an internationally recognized kingship. Alliances and marriages with foreign powers and keeping England distracted for a longer period of time though less intensely than Welsh perhaps.

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