Realistic Early Era Poll

[xzavian]

Add Sweden please

[Ferdiad]

In the 1100 era campaign? Not likely.

[-Myth-]

Bulgaria or Burgundy.

[Ichon]

Bulgaria or Burgundy.

Both of those are on the late era poll but don't make as much sense in 1100.

[RollingWave]

We could use a simple scoring system and figure things out quite well.... divide into 4 catagory

1. independent : 25 points for fully independent 10 for semi, 0 for not at all
2. unique : 25 for unique, 10 for considerable crossover, 0 for high crossover
3. influential : 25 for very influential, 10 for regionally influential 0 for not influential.
4. sustained : 25 if the state or at least the concept of that state is long lasting, 10 if it's only moderately lasting, and 0 for not lasting.

By that logic..

Georgia : 85 (only regionally influential but otherwise full score)

Rum : 60-70 ( regionally influentil and not very unqiue)

Seriba : 85 (see Georgia)

Shirvanshahs : 35 (was semi independent and concept of Azerbijian lasted, but otherwise meh)

Abbasids : 75-85 (only partially independent at best but otherwise full score, the concept of the Caliphate lasted on even after the destruction of Baghdad.

Volga Bulgaria : 55-70 ( this one is difficult to judge, it was definately independent, but only regionally significant at best, we don't know what it's roster is like but presumablly at least some crossover with Cumans, the concept of the state is only somewhat held on )

Suzdal : 45 (not unique at all and the concept of it's sustainability is debatable.)

Pisa : 45 (not unique and not particularly sustained )

Croatia : 50-60 (not independent, and thus not influential either)

Zirids : 25 (it's debatable if they're even indepedently existing at 1100, espeically outside of it's two major cities. though the general region it did control remained a concept of a state (Tunisia)

Danishmends : 10-25 (well it's independent.. sorta.. but that's about it.)

Sweden : 60 (it's independent and obviously the concept of that state lasted, but it was neithe that unique nor did it really extend it's influence much for most of the period.)

Cilicia Armenia : 70-85 (again, mostly just lacking in influence and depend on how you argue the concept of the Armenian state.)

Mosul : 0-25 (at 1100, it wasn't independent, if it was we could argue that all but a couple of the Turks starting settlement were independent too, wasn't that unique, didn't last, and it's impact by itself was minimal, though the Zengid dynasy did base out of that region for awhile, it was their conquest of Syria and the ability to try and pull together most other Turkish rulers of the region that gave them the influence. even if your kinda and give their maximum influence potential based on everything Zengi + Nur al Din + Saladin did it still isn't enough.)

Ireland : 60 (it's unique and the concept lasted, but otherwise it had no influence at all and wasn't even really independent at that point. the Norman exercised at least some degree of control over them.

Orkney : 0 (really? it was just an outpost of Norway, and for most of the medieval era owed alligence to the Scots as well.)

[Ichon]

We could use a simple scoring system and figure things out quite well.... divide into 4 catagory

1. independent : 25 points for fully independent 10 for semi, 0 for not at all
2. unique : 25 for unique, 10 for considerable crossover, 0 for high crossover
3. influential : 25 for very influential, 10 for regionally influential 0 for not influential.
4. sustained : 25 if the state or at least the concept of that state is long lasting, 10 if it's only moderately lasting, and 0 for not lasting.

I would change unique to another category- power vacuum on map.

Rum is a Turk faction similar to Seljuks but how unique is the difference between Norway and Denmark or the Iberian factions? That doesn't seem a strong argument to me. Half the eastern factions in this era are going to have heavy Turk influence, should we just not include them because of that?

Independent is good, sustained is important, influential is even better, while power vacuum on the map is the most important for game balance and fun since we can acknowledge we aren't going to get it perfect given its a game with many constraints.

That said the scores would then be like this-

Georgia 80
Rum 70
Serbia 70
Shirvanshahs 70
Abbasids 70-100 depending on how you define 'influential and sustained'
Volga Bulgaria 70
Suzdal 60
Pisa 55
Croatia 55
Zirids 60
Danishmends 40
Sweden 45 'so low because Sweden did not exist yet- 10 semi-independent, 0 for map power vacuum, 10 regionally influential, 25 sustained'
Cilician Armenia 55
Mosul 70 'if considered as Zengids which may have been a better name for the poll but was referring to sustained regional power, Zengids start as Seljuk vassal but are already semi-independent during this period become fully independent and take over Egypt and kick out Crusaders 25 hugely influential and 10 sustained, 25 map power vaccum'
Ireland 55
Orkney 40


Additionally looking into it more I think we could probably create a roster for Volgar Bulgars. A mix of Turkic tribes and Uralic/Chudes with maybe even some Magyars and Bashkirs. It would be interesting to have an Islamic faction in the north like that.

[Alien Eel]

Voted for Georgia, caucasus needs more factions. Serbia for balkans if possible. Muslims factions are also great, abassids or Rum, never heard them but... Whatever.

[Ferdiad]

The Sultanate of Rum turned into the Ottoman Empire.

[King Yngvar]

Sweden was added to the Baltic submod. Just use that.
Change to two turns per year and optimize growth for that.
Mongols and Timurids would all then be so far away in turn numbers that there would be no more point in having them in the early campaign. Also, remove Khwarezm.
There is now five slots:
Sweden, Ireland, Flanders, Burgundy, Bulgaria


For late campaign, it's even easier. Make it start in 1240.
Remove Khwarezm, Cumans and Kiev (under Mongols).
Remove Jerusalem.
Six slots:
Sweden, Bulgaria, Serbia, Latin Empire, Bohemia, Navarre

[Vissewalde rex de Gerzika]

IF we do that than the eastern part of the map will be pretty much deserted while the west will be overcrowded.

[Almost Fabulous]

Wales