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Thread: The High Road: The Jacobite Era [25-1: added list of regiments to first post]

  1. #21
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Two new previews have been added to ''factions''! You can now view the faction symbols, as well as read four of the faction descriptions as a preview!
    Let us know what you think, with kind regards to Quinlan who did the majority of the work.

  2. #22
    Mhaedros's Avatar Brave Heart Tegan
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    Default Re: The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Very nice faction symbols
    Under the patronage of Finlander. Once patron to someone, no longer.
    Content's well good, innit.


  3. #23
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Very intriguing, eager to see more, beautiful 2D arts.

  4. #24
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default

    Thank you for the compliments: if you feel it's been done well, rep Quinlan! I just directed the layout and text, he made it into what it is!

    Just to get you all a bit more information on what is going on behind the veil: we're currently in the process of making units (Lü Bu and General Custer are helping here), Sanderlicious is working on the map, which should get some mountains soon so Mhaedros can work on details of that, too. I personally am delving a way through some 60 books on the matter, to make sure it is all correct and more importantly - how it can be implemented properly in the game (working especially now on family trees and units). If anyone wishes to contribute in any way - even by just requesting certain events to be added - be reminded that any comments are welcome!
    Last edited by Gigantus; April 04, 2012 at 02:09 AM.

  5. #25
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Dear All,

    While pondering over how to approach this mod, I found myself thinking about the playstyle. Currently, I went with the simplest form: every castle in scotland and every decently sized city has its own region as well as its own recruitment and buildings. However, I thought of the following, of which I am not sure if it will work, and especially not about whether the AI could handle it. I would therefore like all of your expert opinions on what you think of the concept, and whether you think it would be feasible.

    So the plan is this: All big cities and important burghs of the time would be featured as region capitals. This would mean that for example Edinburgh, Glasgow, Inverness, Aberdeen and Dingwall. This would however mean, that there would only be some 20 cities, maximum, with huge spaces of nothing in between. All other small settlements and castles would be represented by PSF's (with perhaps an altered strat map model). This would mean that some highland clans such as MacLeod and MacDonald would not have any city or starting region and would thus start as a horde. Money would have to be made through clan wars (for which we can use the method that DaNova has used for The Last Kingdom: after every battle won, you earn an amount of money), through which you can recruit mercenaries. The mercenaries would be comprised of the clans appropriate to the region. This means that there would be a LOT of types of mercenaries. These factions would start out with their respective historical units (such as the Atholl Brigade for the Murrays and MacDonalds Regiment of Foot for clan Donald). Because the player will already have initial units (a decent amount of them), the mercanaries (although many types) will only be available on occasion, to replace troops that you lost in battles. Other ways money could be made would be through merchants, which the respective faction would receive at the start. The only way to become not only influential but actually powerful would be to capture a city. Because the cities would be so limited, these would make a lot of money. As you can imagine, the playstyle per faction would be very, very varied. Clan Donald and MacLeod for example would not be able to build anything at the start, and therefore the player's only focus will be on strategic raiding, mercantile positions and the attempt at capturing a city. The Lowlands will for example on the other hand mainly focus on building (with a building tree focussing on law in the region and overseas trade, which was a big issue then). Cities would obviously allow for more advanced recruitment, such as specific regiments (think of the Cameronians in south Ayrshire and Argyll's Regiment of Foot in Rothesay, as well as heavier cannon). An other benefit of this controversial idea is that clans would be nicely represented: clan territory boundaries were nopt all that fixed in stone, so regions would perhaps be historically inaccurate in representing this. Every PSF will have an initial amount of troops of the appropriate regiment and clan. Now for the player, this wouldn't be such an issue, but how about the AI?!

    As far as I am aware, no one has ever done something like this, so all your input is welcome!
    Last edited by dmcraanen; April 06, 2012 at 01:09 PM.

  6. #26
    Quinlan's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    I like it, sounds interesting. I think one of the challenges for this mod would be making sure that playing each clan is a unique experience and your idea would definitely contribute to that, no idea how it would work in practice though.

    Another way clans gained wealth without cities was cattle lifting, perhaps rather than assassins there could be a bandit unit, which could attempt to lift cattle (steal cash) from other clans but would have repercussions if they get caught.

    Also I was thinking about how you would get the various Jacobite factions to operate in unison during the risings, how about making the House of Stuart pope? Instead of calling for crusades, they could call for risings. Just an idea.

  7. #27

    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    @Craanen
    Its an interesting idea, but waaaaaay out of my area of knowledge and ability to implement alone. I can only imagine that the AI would have a lot of initial issue to work out (as it always does).
    What if you maintained many regions, but locked their development levels in place. That way smaller towns/castles/PSFs can't expand/build as it is, acting much in the same way you described the many PSFs, while the major cities, starting at much higher levels, retain domination over itself and all it's neighbors due to the fact that the clan whom controls it is far more powerful than those who control the smaller settlements.
    Lots to consider here, so I am just a bit skeptical about trying to implement such a huge feature in the first version of the mod.

    @Quinlan
    The risings is a totally viable idea and could work very nicely. I'm not sure what the time between crusades is, but I think it is hard coded (not sure), so that might be something to consider if you don't want too many of them.
    The bandit unit could be represented in an agent somehow for sure... now if only we could get some cut scenes of people sneaking away with cattle

  8. #28
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    The crusades part sounds like a fantastic idea. We'll make sure to do that! Also the cattle thieving unit would be very nice. I will see if I can find some cutscene - got a lot of scottish films and series I suggest we call the crusade Raising the Clans, since that is the common way to say it.

    @Sander, yes I considered that,too. However my problem is that the town populations in the villages that I want to represent, too, were something like 500 or less, whilst in edinburgh or glasgow the population would be 50.000+. What I came up with now is to take the most important villages (portree on skye had some 6000 inhabitants), but only give them a very basic building tree and therefore also indeed a low level of settlement. The rest of the small villages will still only be represented by PSFs, as will the castles. An other major part is that I would want to keep the recruitment system above, with the bonusses of cattle thieving and raiding being the most profitable sources of income. Basically: the small highland villages that were important such as portree and stornoway would be a low level settlement where you can recruit extremely simple ships and no units. The building tree would be extremely simple, too. Meaning that you would only have cobbled roads, a fishing harbour and an inn. If you would want any chance at dominating at least the half of Scotland, you would need some proper trained troops still, which will be available in inverness and other bigger cities. Mercenaries will - for the scottish units - be cheap to maintain. In order to represent ALL the clans (almost) and the size of them, we can just adjust recruiment times. AKA. Clan Campbell clansmen will be available as mercenaries way more often than clan MacKintosh for example. On the map itself we can just show the clans by filling a PSF with rebels of a particular clan. So: ''MacKintosh Clansmen <Rebels>". This would give a better representation of the clans I figure. IT will certainly take some effort to get it done, but then again - we're making this mod for awesomeness, and I do think this would add some serious awesomeness (also: the size of castles wouldn't have to be changed etc, because they'll just be PSF's!). I'll draw up a new list of regions.
    Hope all that made sense

    edit: through this, we make it a bit simpler than I originally said since there will be starting regions then, but they will still have to make money the highland way: through trade, cattle stealing and raiding!
    Last edited by dmcraanen; April 08, 2012 at 03:23 AM.

  9. #29
    GRANTO's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    im pretty sure riothamus at ib2 conquest britania {the dark age arthurian mod} has developed some kind of cow trade bartering system may be of some interest here {or may not} cheers ....http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=448271

  10. #30
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Thank you! I will take a further look into it. Seems like they mainly focus on building trees and less on actual agents, but it might well be of use!

  11. #31
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    A small number of regions with forts may not be the best replay value.

    You can however restrict the development of individual settlements by using the hidden_resource requirement in the core_building tree, thereby keeping selected settlements at low levels.










  12. #32
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    I actually did that now - I'll upload the new map later this week. The new map has around 60 regions still, but much less random: all the clan seats are represented as actual castles (which is around 15), then there is historical regions at the time which are around 40, and 5 regions that are ahistorical yet nescessary for proper play. I took into account the locking of the settlement level. Besides that, there are a 100 (give or take) PSF's, since they show a) the diversity of clans better, b) the importance of castles even then.
    Pardon me for the silly question: but is it possible to actually lock the settlement development in place at any given settlement level?

  13. #33
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Because buildings can be destroyed a 'locking in' isn't advisable - nor is it possible as far as I know. You can only limit further development, but in the case of a destroyed building the building will have to start at the lowest level again, else it will not begin at all.










  14. #34
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    I meant the limited development, sorry for my sometimes improper use of terms. So you can just limit a settlement at any given level? (so also a level 3 settlement can just stay level 3 throughout the whole game yeah?)

  15. #35
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    That is correct: if you make a condition that cannot be fulfilled by some regions (easiest with hidden_resources), then no further development of that buildng tree is possible.

    Let's say the fourth and the last level of the citywalls have as condition the hidden_resource "big_city" (needs to be added to the list right at the top of the EDB) - this will mean any region that does not have that hidden_resource (in descr_regions) will not be able to build that level. It's as simple as that.










  16. #36
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    I've put the new maps and regions in the first post. The position of Clan Cameron will be reviewed, but is currently historical so it'll remain as such for now! These new regions and historically-accurate PSF's (the PSF's indicate either a village with a castle, or a castle alone) should provide for a proper representation of the clans, along with the recruitment system which we have yet to implement but which will focus vastly on AoR in the Highlands. The Lowland factions on the other hand, will have to make use of more expensive factional units, rather than mercenaries and settlement-specific units (with the Cameronians and several other historical units being exceptions)

  17. #37

    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    "we can use the method that DaNova has used for The Last Kingdom: after every battle won, you earn an amount of money"

    Germanicu5 used that first in his Looting Script.

    Will this mod follow RR/RC principles? I also recommend the Carl AI Economy Script by Fred Putz.

  18. #38
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    K/T, Thank you for pointing that out! I just knew it was there and threw it into the brainstorm. Haven't had an exceptional amount of time yet to think about including those things (so much research!) so your comment is welcome! I haven't really considered RR/RC yet - will look into the specific details of that soon. The Carl AI Economy Script is something I had my eye on indeed, since due to historical accuracy, the AI might get into a little bit of trouble every now and then and Carl should definately help in solving that.

  19. #39
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    If you find yourself with an excessive turn around length (time wise - AI turns) then you might have to consider removing "Karl" again - it added nearly two minutes to the turn around time in 1648. This is due to the high amount of monitors for each faction.










  20. #40
    dmcraanen's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: [WIP] The High Road: The Jacobite Era

    Good to know, thanks gigantus! Your mod is a bigger scale though... I'll have to find out when it's implemented! Considering you're a scripter, how would you solve the following issue:
    Clan MacLean and clan Cameron were historically important, but with the historically accurate regions as is now, they will both have just one starting zone, with no settlements around them that could function as a region (all settlements around it are too small) What's the best way to make sure these factions surivive? (they don't have to have the capacity to gain world power, but having them stay alive would be nice). I figured just give them tons of extra money would help? Also good to know: these two settlements take ages to reach both. From inverness (the closest settlement) I reckon it would take some 10 turns to Cameron and from Tioram to Mull it would take some 10 turns, too....

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