[Preview] House Stark of Winterfell

[Scream Bloody Metal]

Boner-inspiring. Well done, gents.

[stormbringer951]

It's been a long while since I was involved with this project, and I just have to say . . . wow! I'm really looking forwards to this.

[MasterBigAb]

Ooooh me likes what me saw here

[FelipeÁvila]

Robb will have a battle model ? Or he will be just like other stark generals ?

[Karazor]

Robb will have a battle model ? Or he will be just like other stark generals ?

can't you see rob's model is the general with a bird on his head , uhh uhh i mean wolf, now seariously it's the one with the wolf on his head and fur cloak and next to the bolton model

[FelipeÁvila]

ooh nice thank ya i thought that was just a image for the lolz

[CaloNord]

Dear god that looks awesome! Totally amazing work guys! Stark FTW!

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Hmm, shouldn't the equipment be more late 14th - early 16th century?

[eidius]

Hmm, shouldn't the equipment be more late 14th - early 16th century?

have you even read the books?
anyway....



they do not look like this...i can assure you...

[Korpskog]

have you even read the books?
anyway....
they do not look like this...i can assure you...

Really there ain't that many descriptions of the different units that you can take from the books, mostly GRRM describes the heraldic symbols and colors very well. Yes he describes some armors and weapons that belongs to main characters, when it comes to the average soldiers he leaves a lot to the imagination. I really love the art that has been developed here at TWC obviously quite different from the HBO series, maybe not, remains to be seen.... Seven days remaining!

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

have you even read the books?
anyway....

they do not look like this...i can assure you...

I have read the books, yes, and I have a good knowledge of the history of armor. Better than GRRM's, methinks. So if we iron out a few total anachronisms, his gear is mostly applicable to the 14th/15th century, with some 16th century stylistic additions.


BTW, for real life cultural/stylistic counterparts I see the following:
1. North - Scotland/Ireland/[northern] England
2. Westerlands, Riverlands, Vale, the Reach and the Stormlands - generic western Europe, with a few variations.
3. The Free Cities - Italy. I mean, c'mon, the Bravosi are wearing mothering rapiers and running around in slashed trousers!

[eidius]

I have read the books, yes, and I have a good knowledge of the history of armor. Better than GRRM's, methinks. So if we iron out a few total anachronisms, his gear is mostly applicable to the 14th/15th century, with some 16th century stylistic additions.

yes there seems to be some exaggerations made by Martin there seems to be 3 levels of armor concerning what he says and what we can logically deduce. the governing system is very feudal system and they do not seem to be technologically advanced to the level of the late 15th or early 16th century. i mean they sill use galleys and longboats for pete's sake. I think there are a few levels when it comes to Martin and armors, first you got nobles like Jaime and Renly whose armor is well in the 16th century that probably look like this except the armor is highly decorated that is highly decorated. you know something like this.
and then you got knights that would probobly not have such expensive looking armor but instead still look awesome in regular plate. resembling the 14th century...something like this


then you got the rest of westeros and the "regular" troops, even George in an interview said that the medieval history was grim and the troops look even grimmer with everyone wearing brown and grey while the knights had Red, blue, yellow and green while riding their similarly colorful horses.
so, in conclusion the regular troops should look something like this:




and lets not forget that GRRM said that he was heavily influenced by the war of roses.

[eidius]

for some reason i cant edit so, in short i think that GRRM was aiming to have some noble armors and weapons to be like 16th plus century while the rest of the stuff is 14th-ish with a hind of 12th century thrown in for the peasants and levies. if there were more technological advancements and there was at least some small use in gun powder then yea that would make sense that they would wear the stuff i linked in my first post, since they dont i am leaning on what i linked in my second post.

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

yes there seems to be some exaggerations made by Martin there seems to be 3 levels of armor concerning what he says and what we can logically deduce. the governing system is very feudal system and they do not seem to be technologically advanced to the level of the late 15th or early 16th century. i mean they sill use galleys and longboats for pete's sake.

The last major battle between galleys, Lepanto, was in 1571(?), IIRC.

I think there are a few levels when it comes to Martin and armors, first you got nobles like Jaime and Renly whose armor is well in the 16th century that probably look like this except the armor is highly decorated that is highly decorated. you know something like this.
and then you got knights that would probobly not have such expensive looking armor but instead still look awesome in regular plate. resembling the 14th century...something like this

And look, that's perfectly consistent with what I said. Because those knights in the picture are late 15th century.

then you got the rest of westeros and the "regular" troops, even George in an interview said that the medieval history was grim and the troops look even grimmer with everyone wearing brown and grey while the knights had Red, blue, yellow and green while riding their similarly colorful horses.

Well, duh. That's kinda obvious for any period in history. I dislike you using the term "regulars", though, since there was no such thing back then. Armies should be composed of three levels:
1. Personal household troops of lords (both cavalry and infantry) - the best equipped troops of all, the only ones with a degree of uniformity.
2. Landed knights and feudal peasant conscripts - numerous but lower in quality.
3. Yeomanry, city militias and mercenaries - outside the feudal ladder. Extremely varied in every aspect.

and lets not forget that GRRM said that he was heavily influenced by the war of roses.

Dafuq, dude. Now you finally agree?


Either way, me personally I'd be happy to see more sallets and more polearms. Less mail, since it was more expensive than plate by the late medieval era. And definitely much fewer kite shields. But that's just me and my obsession with accurate equipment.

[eidius]

Dafuq, dude. Now you finally agree?

yes i do, well to some degree, i think that only the nobles and maybe some really rich knight houses could actually afford the armors that look like they are from the 16th century.

as for anyone below the rank of rich knights or nobles...GRRM never really described what the troops looked like but from most arts that i have seen for War of Roses, there are high amounts of really heavy armor and equipment on the field...i really doubt any of the westerosi houses can actually field something like that.
also i really cant imagine the westerosi people be dressed in 15th-16th century fashion. i dont know the whole setting seems to indicate that most armies were dressed with rudimentary arms and armor while the knights and noble families are dressed in incredibly beautiful and powerful armor.


so in short no...i dont think that the westerosi armies resembled this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cool-art/4488937913/

but something like this
http://www.conflicts.rem33.com/image...s/image009.jpg

[Captain Zoran]

Accurate equipment in a fantasy world setting is total *BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP* and deserves no such further *Bleep* thought.

Joking of course ^^

We have alot of information on armour and weapons from GRRM. As you stated Blatter Optimus Maximus (sorry, couldn't help myself. Sounded like the best Transformer ever ), the main part of Westeros seems to be in an age equivlent to the 14th/15th century with some 16th century stylistic armourments, perticullary for the Knights. Also there is the large extent of using pikeformations and longbows/crossbows in union, which can be seen evidently in the Westerlands. (Take the Battle of the Green Fork for instance) However, I do not think GRRM has minded the fact that you also stated, that chainmail in this era was less in evidence, due to its effort and time-consuming making. We have many sources of mail being used to a great extent. Night's Watch, Gold Cloaks, retuines etc etc. On kite shields I cannot comment, as my memory gives me no clear proof of the extent of this type of shield in larger formations, but I do remember that Vardis Egan used a kiteshield in his duel with Bronn, and I also seem to recall some usage of it in the Blackwater River Battle.

Overall, I think the developers are doing a pretty damn decent job of equipment accuracy in this mod, based from what sources we have.

Edit: Also, as a sidenote, the Iron Islands seems to be mostly 9th/10th Century equipped. Think late viking era, as in the time of the Saxon/Scandinavian wars in Britain.

[Jonny Ringo]

Love the units! Now I'm deffinitely going to play as the Starks! Keep up the great work guys, this looks amazing

[Blatta Optima Maxima]

Accurate equipment in a fantasy world setting is total *BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP* and deserves no such further *Bleep* thought.

Joking of course ^^

We have alot of information on armour and weapons from GRRM. As you stated Blatter Optimus Maximus (sorry, couldn't help myself. Sounded like the best Transformer ever ), the main part of Westeros seems to be in an age equivlent to the 14th/15th century with some 16th century stylistic armourments, perticullary for the Knights. Also there is the large extent of using pikeformations and longbows/crossbows in union, which can be seen evidently in the Westerlands. (Take the Battle of the Green Fork for instance) However, I do not think GRRM has minded the fact that you also stated, that chainmail in this era was less in evidence, due to its effort and time-consuming making. We have many sources of mail being used to a great extent. Night's Watch, Gold Cloaks, retuines etc etc. On kite shields I cannot comment, as my memory gives me no clear proof of the extent of this type of shield in larger formations, but I do remember that Vardis Egan used a kiteshield in his duel with Bronn, and I also seem to recall some usage of it in the Blackwater River Battle.

Overall, I think the developers are doing a pretty damn decent job of equipment accuracy in this mod, based from what sources we have.

Edit: Also, as a sidenote, the Iron Islands seems to be mostly 9th/10th Century equipped. Think late viking era, as in the time of the Saxon/Scandinavian wars in Britain.

The iron islands are not specifically 9th/10th century, since their equipment is not specified for the most part. As for longships, those remained in use in Scotland, Ireland and Iceland well into the 17th century, albeit with some upgrades.

Kite shields - well, kite shields were used by infantry in the flat-topped version for quite a long time, although I think GRRM might be confusing them with heater shields.

so in short no...i dont think that the westerosi armies resembled this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cool-art/4488937913/

Ahum, I never said that. I was talking about armor, I never said they were all 16th century. So either learn to read, or quit ing.

[Korpskog]

The iron islands are not specifically 9th/10th century, since their equipment is not specified for the most part. As for longships, those remained in use in Scotland, Ireland and Iceland well into the 17th century, albeit with some upgrades.

Obviously GRRM's inspiration for the Ironborn are the Vikings, mostly based on the rip and run tactics they use when invading the north and the reach. That same tactic was used by Danish and Norse vikings all over Saxony, Normandy and England, often the great scandinavian sailors was halfway home before the locals could send for reinforcements, if im not wrong this was as early as year 850 to 900 im not sure (i should be though since im Swedish and my middle name is Viking)

[Captain Zoran]

The iron islands are not specifically 9th/10th century, since their equipment is not specified for the most part. As for longships, those remained in use in Scotland, Ireland and Iceland well into the 17th century, albeit with some upgrades.

Why yes, the Longships, same as galleys were used much longer than from the time that were their "prime".

I was speaking more generally about their techniques and strategies, and some of their equipment. Their equipment seems to be mostly ringmail for the veterans, Lords, captains or prominent fighters. Others seems to rely on leather jerkins, padded or not and bits of fur. Axes seems to be an quite prominent weapon for the Ironborn.

If you ignore the historical inaccurecies with their helmets... (Illustration of 10th Century vikings):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Edit: @Korpskog My point exactly! Also, nice to see more swedes here! Our army is growing!

This is propably a bit more accurate version: (illustration of 9th Century viking raid)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Illustration of Olav Tryggvarson's last stand (10th Century)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Illustration of a 9th Century Huscarl:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Reminder: These are later illustrations, there were very few illustrated examples from this time, and those wern't very detailed. But they give a pretty good picture of equipment.