Why are they stronger than any other units in the game? Aren't they overpowered?
Why are they stronger than any other units in the game? Aren't they overpowered?
They have no weak sides, the strongest HRE infantry is still more powerful than my Novgorodian top soldiers, and they also have superior cavalry.
What's so bad about that logic? It means I can't counter them with anything because their cavalry is much better than mine, and their infantry is equally good or better as well.
I don't like it.
Last edited by Ishan; March 14, 2012 at 06:01 PM. Reason: not needed
Because you are trying to play their game, instead of fighting them with your own strengths.
You have Pechenegs, abuse the hell out of them. If you can get side, but especially rear, shots with their bows you will absolutely abuse the Germans light and heavy cav.
Mix in several units of Luchniki to rain down an unholy hail of arrows and then follow it up with handaxes, supported by incredibly nasty Axemen, with whatever else you want to throw into the force (I like using Chude Militia en masse early on, very deadly and very hard for the enemy to get to grips with if you protect vs charges), and you will have an army that can take on and crush just about anything until guns start to become prevalent.
Edit: Also, look into the Battle for the Baltic and HURB sub-mod's. They aren't compatible with each other, but each one offers deeper, stronger rosters for the Russian factions that may increase your enjoyment of the game.
BFTB:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1808
HURB:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=405904
Last edited by Jambat; March 10, 2012 at 05:11 PM.
I see the better and approve; I follow the worse.
If you liked my post or thought I was helpful, hit that +rep and leave your name so I can keep an eye out for when you deserve some. Unless you suck. Then you aren't getting crap. Ever.
BFTB does not make Novs or Kievan troops more powerful. I found the opposite to be true. 6.3 is the best SS mod in my opinion for the Novs and Kievan. And most factions are more powerful than the Rus ones. I went into the files and ugraded stats to Junior druzhina and luchniki to make them worth having....just a little tweak....I laugh when people say dont fight their war...3 damage dont do squat to 13 and above armor....especially when you run out of arrows quick....javelin men are our saving grace....western europe is too powerful looking at stats and you can steam roll anybody with thos efactions...I have easily...
Last edited by MikeNice808; March 11, 2012 at 08:48 AM.
I actually play with BFTB, for some reason I didn't feel like stats were too different, but having fancy sexy medieval Russian warriors with unique agents and stuff is always a good thing. I also don't see how you can "abuse the hell out" of pechenegs; first of all, they're a Kievan unit, second, they're not that strong (especially against ultra armor of the HRE) and their arrows are very limited. Same with Luchniki (I wonder why did they use the Russian word for "archers" as if there was a unique infantry type with this name), their arrow damage is too low.
Pechenegs are a Novgorod and Kievan Rus unit in 6.4, plus they are one of the AoR options so anyone who takes over the land gets the option to train them. I will have the check BFTB sometime as other than Sweden I'm not well versed in the roster changes, I just remember the Russians had deeper options than vanilla.
When you look at them from a pure statistical viewpoint, they are complete rubbish. When you use them correctly, they are godlike. As the above poster said, if you make sure to shoot the enemies heavy armor from the rear (which is easy to do with how fast and maneuverable they are) they lose a large portion of their defense. I'm playing a Danemark campaign right now on VH/VH and have managed to recruit a few of them and send them back west to fight the HRE as well. A single unit of Pechenegs can easily take out a unit of HRE heavy cav with just a little micro-management at the start of the Late Era without running out of arrows.
I see the better and approve; I follow the worse.
If you liked my post or thought I was helpful, hit that +rep and leave your name so I can keep an eye out for when you deserve some. Unless you suck. Then you aren't getting crap. Ever.
I agree with you about the Luchniki and BFTB. Besides some roster changes in my opinion BFTB actually made Kiev and Nov weaker. What I do(after recently finding out how to) is go to a file and upgrade damage of certain units myself. I gace Junior Druzhina 5 damage with arrows instead of 3(are they throwing rocks or shooting arrows?) and for Luchniki after studying other archer and horse archer units I upgraded their damage to six for arrows and 5 for swords. I use them the way the dismounted dvor were used in vanilla for Russia. I really miss those guys. The strength for Kiev and Novs are javelin men which BFTB took away from city recruitment and substituted with ineffective spear units making the other spear units you get there redundant....plus the pink kiev colors...
You didn't say this but you did say:
PB did not arbitrarily assign stats to units, I feel like this is the hundredth time I've said this. Anyway stats are not the be all, end all in M2TW. Thats why vanilla was so broken, players needed to see stats to feel a unit was useful. Anyway, look at the attached file for the RC 2.0 stats
Unit stats are not made to be balanced, they are based on the historical efficacy of the unit except for some units like Battlefield Assassins, Sherwood Archers and the like. The only way to balance factions is through economy, infrastructure development, and terrain not through unit stats.
Last edited by Ishan; March 14, 2012 at 06:10 PM. Reason: Double Post
HRE have great twohanders units and great armor. To beat that you must focus with things they have difficulty to get the edge. Against armor wou have axes, crossbows amd javelins. You have great horse archers, what are again very usefull if you play like a far east faction. My suggestion is to use mounted junior militia, druzina, and the axemans. Do go frontal atack, use flanks atacks.
Kill Them All, Let God Sort Them Out!
5 Mongol units have 5 or higher missile attack. About half their roster actually.
Cumans are much weaker both in archers and infantry but have some quite cheap units.
If someone doesn't like the stats they are free to mod it as they like. In fact its better they do so and maybe we'll get some more people modding than just complaining. Later Rus rosters should probably be a blend of eastern and western even more than they are now in my opinion.
Last edited by Ichon; March 12, 2012 at 05:30 PM.
STAINLESS STEEL Historical Improvement Project (SSHIP) - v0.8.2 Beta released!
Recent AARs/Guides
Norway 180 turn SS/BGR AAR- http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...71#post8479471
Lithuania SS/BGR AAR- http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=369607
1390 SS submod WIP
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=479539
Kiev is pretty strong in Stainless steel tough, I haven't fought the HRE ever with them tough because I tend to go east and south, never West And the Danes tend to destroy the HRE in most of my games.
I tend to do really well against most Pagans and Muslims whilst staying allied to Novgorod, The Kievans are pretty good at siege defence and in battle a three line formation with Archers on the high ground, those Javelin throwers right below them and a defensive line of regular infantry in the front can take on most charges, ranged cavalry is verry good at picking off the oncomming enemy from the non shield side, or assasinating their General. If you have Berdishe militia, then they are usefull counter chargers, keep them near your main defensive line and after the ennemy charge, charge them in the ennemy, preferably it's flanks. Later on in the game you get verry tough cavalry and archers
The Crimean Khanate was an ally/protectorate intermittently to the Ottomans and was required to provide cavalry to the Ottomans for every campaign until the late 1600s when Russia/Muscovy became strong enough push back the Turks.