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Thread: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

  1. #81

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    cant help but notice your circular reasoning, you believe god is evil, so therefore he is evil. This fits the entire debate perfect. God is evil allows rape murder etc here is why site passages. I than put them in context tell what the bible says and how it hates murder/rape. you ignore because you believe he is evil, so he must be. So on your beliefs, early you ignored so I shall re post.

    This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than the bible says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. . What is morraly wrong here, the child sacrifice, or the god doing justice against child sacrifice?

    I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say rape is bad? If you were created by a evil god, than how do you know that what you think is evil is really bad? He is evil, most likely created you to think good things are evil and evil things are good, so that you will want or do evil things. So you may claim you belive things are bad rape/murder but you were created by evil god, who because he is evil, prabley created you thinking good was bad and bad was good..


    I will say my onion again
    My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is a god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice rape/murder and dont think god should judge those people



    Than I have to say, the idol you have created is indeed evil allows rape etc But I only care about the bible, the bible condemns both of those clearly. I have shown you over and over from the bible, but I wont keep posting as you will just ignore as you have all debate anyways.


    You said
    " the Wars of Faith win hands down as the bloodiest and longest wars in human history, lasting as they did, on and off for a thousand years. From the first 'conversion by the sword' under Constantine thru the crusades, the 30 years war, the English civil war, the devastation of the westward expansion in america. All blood for your murder god, all in his name under his laws of kill them all. "



    Now,could you please back these up with 1] why murder is bad to you. 2] how any of these wars are backed by biblical teachings 3] how these are religious wars [indeed crusades] 4] statistics for killed/population numbers. Otherwise it is just claims. Now I do love to talk on crusades so I hope that comes up.

    Atheist in one century


    Even adjusting for changes in population size, atheist regimes are responsible for 100 times more death in one century than Christian rulers inflicted over five centuries.
    As for the Inquisition, much of the modern stereotype was largely made up by Spain’s political enemies, and later by anti-Christians. The Inquisition only had authority over professing Christians, and the Inquisition trials were often fairer and more lenient than their secular counterparts. Often the only penalty given was some sort of penance such as fasting. Over a period of 350 years, he goes on to show that atheism, not religion, is responsible for mass murders. In fact, ‘atheist regimes have in a single century murdered more than one hundred million people’ (p. 214). However, while it can easily be shown that crimes committed in the name of Christianity are not sanctioned by its teaching, the bloodbaths of the atheist regimes are consistent with an atheist, evolutionary outlook. Indeed, atheists have no moral basis to say that anything is right or wrong



    atheist governments killings morality etc

    77 million in Communist China, 62 million in the Soviet Gulag State, 21 million non-battle killings by the Nazis, 2 million murdered in the Khmer Rouge killing fields (see also Rummel, R.J., Death by Government, New Brunswick, N.J.: Transaction Publishers, 1994).


    Hitler exspaies atheistic morality best

    “ He who does not wish to fight in this world, where permanent struggle is the law of life, has not the right to exist”.
    Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p266 2003

    The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrafice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel,and if he does so it is mearly because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution
    then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all”.
    Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p262 2003

    “if nature does not wish that weaker individuals should mate with the stronger, she wishes even less that a superior race should intermingle with an inferior one. Because in such a case all her efforts, throughout hundreds of thousands of years, to establish an evolutionary higher stage of being may thus be rendered futile.”
    Hitler A Mein Kampf, english translation by James Murphy, 1939 Fredonia Classics, New York, p263 2003



    OT laws apply today?
    Great question justicar, I suggest reading here
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...-introduction/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...new-testament/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...remonial-laws/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...w-its-purpose/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...hat-it-is-not/


    I would say the reason murder/rape are not allowed anymore is because christians follow the bible, not your idal post 65.. The bible and OT gives death penalty for both, as i pointed out many times. Those other laws apply to temple worship and all point to jesus in one way or the other. Deep theology not interested to exspalin all the laws to someone who rejects the bible.

    Your haven't answered the question: Why out of all the OT laws in the sections refereed to is Homosexuality the only one that still applies, not the kill them all, not the take slaves, not the dietary laws, not the laws on clothes and cloth, not the confinement of women, only Homosexuality, what makes it special? If Jesus himself says nothing about why have Christians drawn the conclusion that it is the only one that still applies? . The answer to this is crucial, as it illustrates the selective editing that is core to the Christian world view, no where does jesus say that the old laws no longer apply, in fact he endorses them fully.

    Oh and the insulting 'all non christians are child molesters' part of your post? Considering statistically the most likely person in any community to be a paedophile is the priest, the correlation is reversed, devout chrisitain belief is an indicator for paedophilia.

  2. #82

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    did you respond to post 80? it says you posted last but I am getting nothing.


    “I am in fact, a hobbit in all but size”― J.R.R. Tolkien









  3. #83

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post
    did you respond to post 80? it says you posted last but I am getting nothing.

    I did and can see it..odd.

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    Your haven't answered the question: Why out of all the OT laws in the sections refereed to is Homosexuality the only one that still applies, not the kill them all, not the take slaves, not the dietary laws, not the laws on clothes and cloth, not the confinement of women, only Homosexuality, what makes it special? If Jesus himself says nothing about why have Christians drawn the conclusion that it is the only one that still applies? . The answer to this is crucial, as it illustrates the selective editing that is core to the Christian world view, no where does jesus say that the old laws no longer apply, in fact he endorses them fully.

    Oh and the insulting 'all non christians are child molesters' part of your post? Considering statistically the most likely person in any community to be a paedophile is the priest, the correlation is reversed, devout chrisitain belief is an indicator for paedophilia.

  4. #84

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    Your haven't answered the question: Why out of all the OT laws in the sections refereed to is Homosexuality the only one that still applies, not the kill them all, not the take slaves, not the dietary laws, not the laws on clothes and cloth, not the confinement of women, only Homosexuality, what makes it special? If Jesus himself says nothing about why have Christians drawn the conclusion that it is the only one that still applies? . The answer to this is crucial, as it illustrates the selective editing that is core to the Christian world view, no where does jesus say that the old laws no longer apply, in fact he endorses them fully.

    Oh and the insulting 'all non christians are child molesters' part of your post? Considering statistically the most likely person in any community to be a paedophile is the priest, the correlation is reversed, devout chrisitain belief is an indicator for paedophilia.


    OT laws apply today?
    Great question justicar, I suggest reading here
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...-introduction/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...new-testament/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...remonial-laws/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...w-its-purpose/
    http://www.jasonlisle.com/2012/01/23...hat-it-is-not/


    I did say this last post
    not interested to exspalin all the laws to someone who rejects the bible. If you are truly intersted read links and we can discuss.

    But my point is, you say god is evil allows rape/murder [both clearly wrong if one accepts the bible] etc It does not matter if god once did and no longer does today. You just have to show he did at anytime. If he is immoral at any one point, than he is immoral, regardless of NT/OT.


    The fact is as I have shown over and over, the bible does not allow slavery/murder. Both are wrong and punishable by death in OT. your idol post 65, allows both not the bible. The only way you can claim such is to ignore my many posts, so posting a copy paste [your trying to get me kicked again] will only help you get me off these forums. So all I can do is tell you to read my responses, something you have yet to do this debate. The reason we dont build a really big boat to put animals in is because no flood is coming, the reason we dont sacrifice animals is because jesus has come, the reason I dont follow joshua into the promise land to fight child sacrificing cannanites, well is because there gone and its not the 15th century BC. However if you could find a nation today burning alive babies after there born [we only kill millions before they come out in my country, were "good" guys] I would consider joining the army.


    There are several questions we can ask to help distinguish between the laws, such as, “Does this law symbolize the separation of Jews and Gentiles in the Old Testament?” or “Does it point forward to Christ’s atonement on the Cross?” If so, then God reveals in the New Testament that it is not binding on us (Galatians 3:24–25, 4:9–11, Colossians 2:16–17). However, if the law is moral in nature and is nowhere rescinded in Scripture, then to disobey it would be sin (1 John 3:4, Deuteronomy 4:2, Matthew 5:18–19).


    This is my favorite of your statements
    "as it illustrates the selective editing that is core to the Christian world view"


    Now please go back reread our discussion, notice this is what you have done from your very first post passages till the end. Also if you believe you can show me one place were i am somehow not following the bible, the whole bible ot/nt. Please tell me that one place.




    Before we go on you need to please answer these for me.
    This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than the bible says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. . What is morraly wrong here, the child sacrifice, or the god doing justice against child sacrifice?

    I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say rape is bad? If you were created by a evil god, than how do you know that what you think is evil is really bad? He is evil, most likely created you to think good things are evil and evil things are good, so that you will want or do evil things. So you may claim you belive things are bad rape/murder but you were created by evil god, who because he is evil, prabley created you thinking good was bad and bad was good.
    Last edited by total relism; November 29, 2012 at 12:46 PM.


    “I am in fact, a hobbit in all but size”― J.R.R. Tolkien









  5. #85

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Quote Originally Posted by total relism View Post

    But my point is, you say god is evil allows rape/murder [both clearly wrong if one accepts the bible] etc It does not matter if god once did and no longer does today. You just have to show he did at anytime. If he is immoral at any one point, than he is immoral, regardless of NT/OT.

    Thank you for conceding, as that is EXACTLY what I have shown. I eve listed the nations he ordered wiped out to the last man, women and child. I also showed the war brides option, to which you cannot and have not provided a passage that says women had a choice, you cited one, but that only mentioned the fathers right to be compensated for the damage done to his property (his daughter).
    Last edited by justicar5; November 30, 2012 at 09:16 AM.

  6. #86

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Quote Originally Posted by justicar5 View Post
    Thank you for conceding, as that is EXACTLY what I have shown. I eve listed the nations he ordered wiped out to the last man, women and child. I also showed the war brides option, to which you cannot and have not provided a passage that says women had a choice, you cited one, but that only mentioned the fathers right to be compensated for the damage done to his property (his daughter).
    I only coincide if you can show god was morally wrong at any one point. You have not done so. We come back to it all than post 65. Your idol indeed allows those things, but as my responses show, the bible does not. Until you deal with my responses [the bible] I care not of your idol.


    Before we go on you need to please answer these for me.
    This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than the bible says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. . What is morraly wrong here, the child sacrifice, or the god doing justice against child sacrifice?

    I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say rape is bad? If you were created by a evil god, than how do you know that what you think is evil is really bad? He is evil, most likely created you to think good things are evil and evil things are good, so that you will want or do evil things. So you may claim you believe things are bad rape/murder but you were created by evil god, who because he is evil, prabley created you thinking good was bad and bad was good.


    “I am in fact, a hobbit in all but size”― J.R.R. Tolkien









  7. #87

    Default Re: Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

    Plewase close this threa it is getting no where.

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