Who should we fear A genocide from, christians or radical enviromentalist [total relism] vs [justicar]

[justicar5]

So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?

My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people.







1]If you will notice I did things like qoute the whole passage were as your website left some out at to make the bible apper evil. This also shows you did not read as they were full of bible passages




I will have to refer you to my earlier replies and all archlogical evidence and historical evidence I cant make you accept truth just point you in that direction if your worldview wont allow not sure what to do. Your evidence that they did not is............. were do you get your history anyways? holocaust is because jews killed jesus cannaites and there desendants never did child sacrafice those thousands of dead babies in bottles and burial sites and pagans furnace gods they worshipped must have been planted there by the jews after to justify there actions.

So again I ask
I had A question for you,what course of action would you take if a part of your town was sacraficing all first born babies and doing all kinds of sin, know it has been going on generation after generation and you have tried to talk with them and show there ways to be wrong. You have asked them to stop,to leave there ways and come live in your part of town, or to move away from you or to just make peace and not atack you or try to convert your poulation to this kind of behavior.
Nothing has worked and they are set on spreading this kind of behavour what would you do?






I will have to refer you to my responces again and ask were this all is? most all left before isreal invaded or made peace trety or joined isreal it most mostley only the die hard military forts who resisted. Isreal was directly ordered to kill about 3.5% of poulation most likly all military fort personal.


also here

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

As I said yes god strethen his heart courage to do what he wanted, ill agagin post my reply,

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

before i respond What does this have to do with chirtians starting A genocide today?

So to respond, you are false on a few points, read v 33-35 of chapter 9 right before what you posted


33 Then Moses left Pharaoh and went out of the city. He spread out his hands toward the LORD; the thunder and hail stopped, and the rain no longer poured down on the land. 34 When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. 35 So Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses.


pharoah over and over hardened his own heart, and what god did in later plagues was hardend is translated from a word meaning courage and stregthand. God allowed him to do what his heart desired. Also your claim to kill more egytians showes you have never read the book you atack as noone was killed up to this point. If what you say is true why would pharoah later allow people to go? if god hardend his heart,not to mention the plaues were to show egytians and isreal he was the one and only true god and the nile frogs cows pharoah firstborn were not gods, many egytians left with isreal and joined isreal after the plagues and any egyptian who put the blood of a lahm on doorpost never saw judgment. Than dont forget they were not without sin themselves.

they throgh babies ino the nile because of poulation of isrealites and enslaved the isrealites for 200 years.
　So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born[c] you shall cast into the river
exodus 1.22a
"When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women and see them on the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him, but if it is a daughter, she shall live
exodus 1.16

This is your intepritation you belive they are trying to weesel out of something, it seems weird the bible records just when they do that pretty often, read the joshua passage you sited with v 25. Also as I mentioned all archolgical and historical evidence agrees with the bible on the cannanites but your worldview will not allow that info in because of your bias.

As far as your suposed evidence, you can get someone to say anything, I can find you theolgian who say the bible teaches evolution its no there, show me from the bible. Also I really dont know what hes talking about what is the book of The book, called Torat ha-Melekh (“the Teaching of the King”) deals with the killing of Goyim and who are goyim?


trying to download a spell check

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...onary/?src=api

you can find american english there as well. (If you use firefox of course)

For the Pharaoh quotes I simply used a bible website, as I could recall the passage, it is simply the wording of the King James Bible. It comes from Exodus Ch10, you are quoting Exodus Ch9. The quote I took was Ch10 Vs 1, you are quoting 9 vs 34 I believe, which is a previous event.


On your basis 70,000 dead is still genocide.

The Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG) was adopted by the UN General Assembly on 9 December 1948 and came into effect on 12 January 1951 (Resolution 260 (III)). Article 2:Any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. (Article 2 CPPCG)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions

You have made it 'Ethnic Cleansing' and a 'smaller' genocide (meaning all that stayed rather than all there where) The definition of 'Ethnic Cleansing' According to:

1. ^ Report of the Commission of Experts Established Pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 780 (1992), May 27, 1994 (S/1994/674), English page=33, Paragraph 130

Ethnic cleansing is a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas

Oh and the site I got my quotes from: http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/exo10.html

The book I linked was a work of Talmudic (Old Testament) scholarship.

I would also like sources on the Canaanite s from third party historians. A major University for preference.

[total relism]

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...onary/?src=api

you can find american english there as well. (If you use firefox of course)

For the Pharaoh quotes I simply used a bible website, as I could recall the passage, it is simply the wording of the King James Bible. It comes from Exodus Ch10, you are quoting Exodus Ch9. The quote I took was Ch10 Vs 1, you are quoting 9 vs 34 I believe, which is a previous event.


On your basis 70,000 dead is still genocide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_definitions

You have made it 'Ethnic Cleansing' and a 'smaller' genocide (meaning all that stayed rather than all there where) The definition of 'Ethnic Cleansing' According to:

1. ^ Report of the Commission of Experts Established Pursuant to United Nations Security Council Resolution 780 (1992), May 27, 1994 (S/1994/674), English page=33, Paragraph 130

Oh and the site I got my quotes from: http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/exo10.html

The book I linked was a work of Talmudic (Old Testament) scholarship.

I would also like sources on the Canaanite s from third party historians. A major University for preference.

pharoah quote
I know I quoted before to show Pharaoh hardened his own heart first, than god streghtend/courage to do what he wanted to do.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

before i respond What does this have to do with chirtians starting A genocide today?

So to respond, you are false on a few points, read v 33-35 of chapter 9 right before what you posted


33 Then Moses left Pharaoh and went out of the city. He spread out his hands toward the LORD; the thunder and hail stopped, and the rain no longer poured down on the land. 34 When Pharaoh saw that the rain and hail and thunder had stopped, he sinned again: He and his officials hardened their hearts. 35 So Pharaoh’s heart was hard and he would not let the Israelites go, just as the LORD had said through Moses.

Pharaoh over and over hardened his own heart, and what god did in later plagues was hardened is translated from a word meaning courage and strengthened. God allowed him to do what his heart desired. Also your claim to kill more Egyptians showes you have never read the book you attack as none was killed up to this point. If what you say is true why would Pharaoh later allow people to go? if god hardened his heart,not to mention the plaues were to show Egyptians and Israel he was the one and only true god and the nile frogs cows pharoah firstborn were not gods, many Egyptians left with Israel and joined Israel after the plagues and any Egyptian who put the blood of a Lamb on door post never saw judgment. Than dont forget they were not without sin themselves.

they through babies ion the Nile because of population of Israelites and enslaved the Israelites for 200 years.
　So Pharaoh commanded all his people, saying, "Every son who is born[c] you shall cast into the river
exodus 1.22a
"When you serve as midwife to the Hebrew women and see them on the birthstool, if it is a son, you shall kill him, but if it is a daughter, she shall live
exodus 1.16

also new on 10 plagues

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Egypt itself had many chances -- 400 years for the Pharaoh to stop enslaving the people; 400 years for the people of Egypt to show their own mercies on a personal basis.
Pharoh ordered the killings of all male Jewish babies before the plagues ex 1.22 he was afraid they would become to numerous and atack egypt also ex 1.16. Isreal was in slavery for hundreds of years under egypt and mistreated, if you were in that situation you would say the opposite why does god not do anything, many isrealite were killed by Egyptians, babies included by starvation, egypt was gulity of slavery and madd murder of inocent children


The ten plagues were sent to show egypt and everyone that there was one true god and they were worshiping false gods,eerry plague was aimed at showing there gods false they worshipped the nile frogs cows and pharoah there greatest. So the plagues showed that pharaoh was not a god and following him would lead to death.
Many Egyptians joined Israel and went out of Egypt with the Israelites. Any Egyptian who put the blood of the lahm [jesus] on the doorpost was passedover and no one was killed,they had no reason to reject god after the first 9 plagues so they willingly disobeyed him on the tenth and received judgment showing there was nothing special about pharoh or any firstborn individual. pharoah allowed this to happen he could have let isreal go the 9 times before.
No Egyptians were innocent as they allowed slavery for hundreds of years and not untill the last plagues did the people ask pharaoh to let Israel go. Also Egyptians all were guilty against god for sin by the slavery of isreal and mistreatment.
anyone who tried to destroy or breakup or stop isreal and gods plan of salvation through messiah will receive judgment this is throwout the bible. It is a jewish principle pick the better of two bads, death of messiah all go to hell or death of pharaoh firstborn and others who get in way of gods plan of salvation.
after every plague pharoah could have let isreal go but chose not to.
god killed firstborns in Egypt witch would intimidate go to haven the bible says all are born into sin we are all sinful and all babies are sinners and will grow up like the rest of us and be sinners .
However the plagues were not sent because of babies. God did not kill them but pharaohs sin against god and the Egyptians. Had the babies kids of Egypt grown up in Egypt worshiping pharaoh they may have missed out on eternity,look at numbers 14 28-33 for this with isreal,kids indirectly suffer for the sins of the parents.
When an abusive father kills his child in a fit of rage, the child dies BECAUSE of the SINS of the FATHER, but the child is not being PUNISHED by being killed. When a child dies of an illness caused by neglect of a parent, they die BECAUSE (somewhat, at least) of the SINS of the parent, but their death would not be considered as a PUNISHMENT on the child for the neglect of the parent. It would be a CONSEQUENCE of the sin, but not a ‘punishment’ per se.
The Exodus story involves a corporate or national punishment, and in these cases—including the famines and plagues that later came upon Biblical Israel for their evil—both innocent and guilty suffer. Similarly, when a nation or group is blessed by God for goodness of values and action and direction, both deserving and undeserving benefit.

http://christianthinktank.com/killheir.html

On the book you qouted, I could find a scholor who tells you evolution is in the bible its not there, I have no idea what this guy is trying to say anyways and unless you can give biblical suport than I dont care what the claim might be.

cannan child sacrafice i alredy gave you refrences, of witch they are loaded with scholoerly refrences i dont care to take time to present them to you, you can just google child sacrafice cannan late iron age i think you should get alot, its not like this is unkown.


genocide

Here is were we differ alot, you see any death as evil I do as well death is bad in itself, but i dont see the soldiers of ww2 for america or england as gulity of genocide thoe the killed millions. I see genocide as killing a group of people for finacial race greed power etc God never does this, in fact he is willing to kill the creation he died for to stop this, I dont think the god of the bible could be any more aginst this. God is judge of all and must judge, he never does so out of malice as those guilty of genocide do. I was just listing on radio today, there is A guy in africa who kills abducts and forces slavery sex and murder and forces young boys into military on a very large scale, that is evil and genocide he does so for power. 100 secret forces men from america are hunting him in 3 africa countries trying to kill him, they are not guilty of genocide in my view but are worthy of praise I wish I could help.



I had A question for you,what course of action would you take if a part of your town was sacraficing all first born babies and doing all kinds of sin, know it has been going on generation after generation and you have tried to talk with them and show there ways to be wrong. You have asked them to stop,to leave there ways and come live in your part of town, or to move away from you or to just make peace and not atack you or try to convert your poulation to this kind of behavior.
Nothing has worked and they are set on spreading this kind of behavour what would you do?



know tell me what kind of loving god could not judge his creation and allow what happens to go on? what of all those babies being burned alive, if we saw this today going on would we not be just and loving to stop it? would you call ajudge who orders a death sentance aginst a cerial killer A murdered?



I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn't God love? Shouldn't divine love be beyond wrath? ?God is love,and God loves every person and every creature. That's exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God's wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, a region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed, and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalize beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming th perpetrators' basic goodness? Wasn't God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God's wrath, I cam to thin that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn't wrathful at the sight of the world' evil. God isn't wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love (Miroslav Volf as quoted in Is God a Moral Monster? by Paul Copan, 192).




notice the reason why god at times kills
Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.
gen 9.6


its because of the worth of man





Im know going to repost all you ignore every post of the difrence between your claims and what the bible says, soon ill start unspoiling more of this bit%h untill you start to deal with my responces.

some atributes of god

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7



7　If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8　and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9　And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10　and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
Jeremiah 18 7-10

god does not like the death of anyone but he is just and must judge he always gives time for repentance.

"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'" (Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11).


"

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance" (2Pet. 3.9).

"He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1Tim. 2.4).

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Deuteronomy 30.19

god will forgive even the most sinfull nation if they repent and stop the evil they are doing.
jonah whole book also 3.10

on the ordered killings of the specific time and place Canaanites look under spoiler

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The war was limited in time and space. lasting primarily one generation. The goal of the conquest was to remove the cananites from the land not to kill them.. Some stayed and faght so were killed.
The land belongs to god and Israel,so they were taking there land back. God gave them 400 years to repent of there sins.
The nations in cannan were given 3 options
1] leave- some left
2] war
3] join isreal
4]make peace treaty
any cannnite city could surrender and would be shown mercy
josh 2, rahab and family were saved cananites joined isreal 6.23
some cannanites were obsorbed into isreal rahab and 1 chronicles 21.15,18,28
cannanites were aware of god and his power josh2 9-11 9 9-10 they all new the miracles of god with isreal coming out of egypt and it is said were even afraid of isreal.
When god had Israel destroy the Canaanites it wasn't until 400 years of giving them time to repent , Israel stayed in slavery for over 200 years until the Canaanites sin was so great, that they deserved there fate. God warned them and gave them time to disperse from area, some would be driven out not all killed V Deuteronomy 12 29-30. It was only those who resisted this deportation who were exterminated:
Other cities in area were forbidden to be attacked by Israel the moabites dt 2.9 ammonites dt 2.19 and descendants of esau dt 2 4-6 .
Israel was required to make peace offerings to cities in cannan from a distance dt 20 10-16.
Canaanites destruction was not genocide or racism but because of moral behavior. God is judge of man, does not order killing out of malice or lawlessness Deuternomy 32.4
4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4
in 1 ch 28.3 king David is not the one allowed to build the temple because he has to much blood on his hands[ he killed to many people] even though they were god ordered killings, death is still a bad thing and not normal or natural part of life.






4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4

I like a point a friend of mine made about this. One Skeptic asked why God simply did not kill Hitler as a baby. Yet if "baby Hitler" had died, the Skeptic would ask why God did not prevent the death of this innocent baby. This shows that a far more critical view is needed than "argument by outrage." Indeed, "argument by outrage" often assumes a form of omniscience by the critic.


sometimes the death of someone is good in certain circumstances,sep 11 the president gave orders to shoot down planes-to save lives that the teriositt could have used to kill more inocent lives. Sometimes judges give the death penalty to certain murders,but we dont call them murders we call them good just judges.

The Canaanites initiated the attacks on Israel when isreal was defenseless killing children and woman elderly, ex 17 8-13 num 21.1 21-26 33-35 dut 2 26-37 3 1-22

　

they had 400 years to repent of there sins such as child sacrifice, the ones that remained if left alive would have carried on there culture [exampled African Americans in America not comparing the two in any way just continue of culture] so while the death of anyone is bad and death itself is bad given circumstances it was better than alternative [example Hitler]


cannanite society was a whole worldview and way of life witch is why god did not want isreal to mix with them and live with them. god jusdges for no other reason than the sins of the people amos 1-2 God did not hate the Canaanites but the crimes they committed.


36 They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
37 They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to false gods.
38 They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.
psalm 106 36-38

　

they committed adultery in the temple, they chained woman to the temple and people would have sex with them, they sacrificed every first born babies to there god, which was a big furnace half man half bull , they had sex with animals male and female.
Also god gave them hundreds of years to repent, but they chose not to their influence was spreading to surrounding areas, so god had to do it, he has no joy in killing and he weeps for us, and with us, when death happens even to animals. Also Jericho is only ancient city not plundered when taken, just like the bible says, god told Israel not to plunder because this was for judgment.
When god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in genesis he said he would not destroy it until all good people were out.
this also was interfering with gods messianic line so either all die and go to hell or they are stopped. The bible says that if certain people were left alive they would fight against isreal and destroy the messianic line. Its like if hitler had been left alone to kill all jews,ascept being more important and killing off the messianic line before jesus was born.



God never comanded killing unbelivers, but god did judge sinful people.

4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4


Please read my replies before asking a question such as you have above as they directly reply to your claims and would anwser your question. Did america wage war on nonbelivers during ww2?or did they punish and stop a sinfull nation? cannaites burned children alive so did nazies. I belive while not good in itself, they both needed judgement. As I said in my post 400 years of child sacrafice is what it took for god to act

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7

all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

your beliefs

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This also shows your belief strang because you say god ordered child sacrafice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabat

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individuale one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not intersted in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconcived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you oviuslly have not read the bible given your exodus and joshua qoutes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. Acording to you every judge in america that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england america for fighting in ww2 etc.

also ignore agagin for me post 3,4,6,and 8


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people.

[justicar5]

So you concede that it was Ethnic Cleansing? After all, did god offer absolute proof to the Canaanites that he was real? Or did they have to take the Israelites at there word?

On the genocide: Deliberately slaughtering civilians on a mass scale is at the very least mass murder, and by your own admission that was gods command, kill any and all that haven't fled in terror before you and steal there land. (The area bombing of world war 2 verges on this sometimes, but it was also a factor of bombing being massively inaccurate at the time. As presented this is more like the Barbarossa campaign, slaughtering a local population to provide living space for a chosen race) For the sacrifces all I can find are Christian websites sourcing the bible, and since that is circular reasoning (the bible said they sacrificed children and deserved to die, so they sacrificed children and deserved to die) it is not valid.

It would for instance be very was to spin cremating the dead into human sacrifice.

Oh damn wish I hadn't read that source now...
Dr Craig here says the only victims in this story where the soldiers who had to do the killing http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/...rticle&id=5767

[total relism]

So you concede that it was Ethnic Cleansing? After all, did god offer absolute proof to the Canaanites that he was real? Or did they have to take the Israelites at there word?

On the genocide: Deliberately slaughtering civilians on a mass scale is at the very least mass murder, and by your own admission that was gods command, kill any and all that haven't fled in terror before you and steal there land. (The area bombing of world war 2 verges on this sometimes, but it was also a factor of bombing being massively inaccurate at the time.

genocide,had you read you would not be able to make these claims,what is point of discusion to you if you dont read my responces? is it to show you can ignore all evidence you dont like? another prablem with your whole argument if the bible is wrong about cananite child sacrafice why is it correct about the conquest of cannan oh wait let me guess you like that part, but this will be last time i leave in spoiler showing your claims false about civilians genocide etc.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Here is were we differ alot, you see any death as evil I do as well death is bad in itself, but i dont see the soldiers of ww2 for america or england as gulity of genocide thoe the killed millions. I see genocide as killing a group of people for finacial race greed power etc God never does this, in fact he is willing to kill the creation he died for to stop this, I dont think the god of the bible could be any more aginst this. God is judge of all and must judge, he never does so out of malice as those guilty of genocide do. I was just listing on radio today, there is A guy in africa who kills abducts and forces slavery sex and murder and forces young boys into military on a very large scale, that is evil and genocide he does so for power. 100 secret forces men from america are hunting him in 3 africa countries trying to kill him, they are not guilty of genocide in my view but are worthy of praise I wish I could help.



I had A question for you,what course of action would you take if a part of your town was sacraficing all first born babies and doing all kinds of sin, know it has been going on generation after generation and you have tried to talk with them and show there ways to be wrong. You have asked them to stop,to leave there ways and come live in your part of town, or to move away from you or to just make peace and not atack you or try to convert your poulation to this kind of behavior.
Nothing has worked and they are set on spreading this kind of behavour what would you do?



know tell me what kind of loving god could not judge his creation and allow what happens to go on? what of all those babies being burned alive, if we saw this today going on would we not be just and loving to stop it? would you call ajudge who orders a death sentance aginst a cerial killer A murdered?



I used to think that wrath was unworthy of God. Isn't God love? Shouldn't divine love be beyond wrath? ?God is love,and God loves every person and every creature. That's exactly why God is wrathful against some of them. My last resistance to the idea of God's wrath was a casualty of the war in the former Yugoslavia, a region from which I come. According to some estimates, 200,000 people were killed, and over 3,000,000 were displaced. My villages and cities were destroyed, my people shelled day in and day out, some of them brutalize beyond imagination, and I could not imagine God not being angry. Or think of Rwanda in the last decade of the past century, where 800,000 people were hacked to death in one hundred days! How did God react to the carnage? By doting on the perpetrators in a grandfatherly fashion? By refusing to condemn the bloodbath but instead affirming th perpetrators' basic goodness? Wasn't God fiercely angry with them? Though I used to complain about the indecency of the idea of God's wrath, I cam to thin that I would have to rebel against a God who wasn't wrathful at the sight of the world' evil. God isn't wrathful in spite of being love. God is wrathful because God is love (Miroslav Volf as quoted in Is God a Moral Monster? by Paul Copan, 192).




notice the reason why god at times kills
Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man.
gen 9.6


its because of the worth of man





Im know going to repost all you ignore every post of the difrence between your claims and what the bible says, soon ill start unspoiling more of this bit%h untill you start to deal with my responces.

some atributes of god

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7



7　If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8　and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9　And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10　and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
Jeremiah 18 7-10

god does not like the death of anyone but he is just and must judge he always gives time for repentance.

"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'" (Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11).


The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance" (2Pet. 3.9).

"He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1Tim. 2.4).

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Deuteronomy 30.19

god will forgive even the most sinfull nation if they repent and stop the evil they are doing.
jonah whole book also 3.10

The war was limited in time and space. lasting primarily one generation. The goal of the conquest was to remove the cananites from the land not to kill them.. Some stayed and faght so were killed.
The land belongs to god and Israel,so they were taking there land back. God gave them 400 years to repent of there sins.
The nations in cannan were given 3 options
1] leave- some left
2] war
3] join isreal
4]make peace treaty
any cannnite city could surrender and would be shown mercy
josh 2, rahab and family were saved cananites joined isreal 6.23
some cannanites were obsorbed into isreal rahab and 1 chronicles 21.15,18,28
cannanites were aware of god and his power josh2 9-11 9 9-10 they all new the miracles of god with isreal coming out of egypt and it is said were even afraid of isreal.
When god had Israel destroy the Canaanites it wasn't until 400 years of giving them time to repent , Israel stayed in slavery for over 200 years until the Canaanites sin was so great, that they deserved there fate. God warned them and gave them time to disperse from area, some would be driven out not all killed V Deuteronomy 12 29-30. It was only those who resisted this deportation who were exterminated:
Other cities in area were forbidden to be attacked by Israel the moabites dt 2.9 ammonites dt 2.19 and descendants of esau dt 2 4-6 .
Israel was required to make peace offerings to cities in cannan from a distance dt 20 10-16.
Canaanites destruction was not genocide or racism but because of moral behavior. God is judge of man, does not order killing out of malice or lawlessness Deuternomy 32.4
4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4
in 1 ch 28.3 king David is not the one allowed to build the temple because he has to much blood on his hands[ he killed to many people] even though they were god ordered killings, death is still a bad thing and not normal or natural part of life.






4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4

I like a point a friend of mine made about this. One Skeptic asked why God simply did not kill Hitler as a baby. Yet if "baby Hitler" had died, the Skeptic would ask why God did not prevent the death of this innocent baby. This shows that a far more critical view is needed than "argument by outrage." Indeed, "argument by outrage" often assumes a form of omniscience by the critic.


sometimes the death of someone is good in certain circumstances,sep 11 the president gave orders to shoot down planes-to save lives that the teriositt could have used to kill more inocent lives. Sometimes judges give the death penalty to certain murders,but we dont call them murders we call them good just judges.

The Canaanites initiated the attacks on Israel when isreal was defenseless killing children and woman elderly, ex 17 8-13 num 21.1 21-26 33-35 dut 2 26-37 3 1-22

　

they had 400 years to repent of there sins such as child sacrifice, the ones that remained if left alive would have carried on there culture [exampled African Americans in America not comparing the two in any way just continue of culture] so while the death of anyone is bad and death itself is bad given circumstances it was better than alternative [example Hitler]


cannanite society was a whole worldview and way of life witch is why god did not want isreal to mix with them and live with them. god jusdges for no other reason than the sins of the people amos 1-2 God did not hate the Canaanites but the crimes they committed.


36 They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
37 They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to false gods.
38 They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.
psalm 106 36-38

　

they committed adultery in the temple, they chained woman to the temple and people would have sex with them, they sacrificed every first born babies to there god, which was a big furnace half man half bull , they had sex with animals male and female.
Also god gave them hundreds of years to repent, but they chose not to their influence was spreading to surrounding areas, so god had to do it, he has no joy in killing and he weeps for us, and with us, when death happens even to animals. Also Jericho is only ancient city not plundered when taken, just like the bible says, god told Israel not to plunder because this was for judgment.
When god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in genesis he said he would not destroy it until all good people were out.
this also was interfering with gods messianic line so either all die and go to hell or they are stopped. The bible says that if certain people were left alive they would fight against isreal and destroy the messianic line. Its like if hitler had been left alone to kill all jews,ascept being more important and killing off the messianic line before jesus was born.



God never comanded killing unbelivers, but god did judge sinful people.

4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4


Please read my replies before asking a question such as you have above as they directly reply to your claims and would anwser your question. Did america wage war on nonbelivers during ww2?or did they punish and stop a sinfull nation? cannaites burned children alive so did nazies. I belive while not good in itself, they both needed judgement. As I said in my post 400 years of child sacrafice is what it took for god to act

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7

all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

As presented this is more like the Barbarossa campaign, slaughtering a local population to provide living space for a chosen race) For the sacrifces all I can find are Christian websites sourcing the bible, and since that is circular reasoning (the bible said they sacrificed children and deserved to die, so they sacrificed children and deserved to die) it is not valid.

how can you see circular reasoing here and not in your own beliefs?

again I dont care to copy a bunch of refrences down for you you want to pretend it did not happen that matters not to me, you can belive hitler killed jews because they killed jesus I dont care it is a self refuting argument your trying to use saying we cant trust the bible also this is not on topic I think you have completly forgotten topic. and if you want a bunch of scholerly refrences http://www.biblearchaeology.org/publ...eandspade.aspx vol 25 no 1 there are about 2 scholors trying to overturn the belief by all that ccanites and there desendants regularly child sacraficed and there saying they are cremation urns, this is shown false by there own writings back than and much more evidence. You could find some refrence here http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...e.aspx#Article
and here
http://www.biblearchaeology.org/sear...%20in%20canann

It would for instance be very was to spin cremating the dead into human sacrifice.

Oh damn wish I hadn't read that source now...
Dr Craig here says the only victims in this story where the soldiers who had to do the killing http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/...rticle&id=5767

I would say the murdered children were victims as well. Also responce above
This is very funny because this is just what a modern scholor from one of these countries is trying to do read this the evidence is clear.





prablems with your beliefs you dont respond to

your whole argument aginst cannaite child sacrafice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of cannan itself.

This also shows your belief strang because you say god ordered child sacrafice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabat

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individuale one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not intersted in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconcived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you oviuslly have not read the bible given your exodus and joshua qoutes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. Acording to you every judge in america that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england america for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people

[justicar5]

but that is the issue you link biblical scholarship (which is ofc going to support what the bible says) so what is the point? It isn't objective. And you sir are the one claiming 20 letters (or more accurately 30) I show a biblical quote that with no possibility of misunderstanding says kill them all, including the children, you then claim that this is ok as it was 'only a few children' and the civilisation practised child sacrifice. I ask for objective sources that it in fact did. You supply religious sources that ofc back your argument as there entire point is to do so. I do you the courtesy of not linking to maltheist/atheist websites when talking about the bible, will you do the same and find non-Judeo/Christian sources to back your claims.

For instance finding burned bodies: It is called cremation, it offers no evidence of child sacrifice, unless other supporting evidence is provided (and no the bible cannot be used to prove the bible, as that is circular reasoning). You see my claim is that the Bible orders genocide, you have tried to downgrade that to mass killing/ Ethnic Cleansing to make it seem less bad, as if that's ok by you for some reason?

The writers of the bible had a huge interest in seeming justified in what they did and how they acted, so claiming child sacrifice (which the Romans also did about there enemies btw) gives them a justification for both their gods instructions and the mass murder they committed in his name. It also makes there claim on the land seem some how better than everyone else.


And I have the same interest in 'learning' the lessons of the bible as I have in 'learning' Mien Kampf, they both bring nothing but terror and oppression. Oh and if I am wrong? Better to be tortured for opposing tyranny and race war, than bow down to it and submit.

[total relism]

Happy st pattys day, I just want you to know my replies will be slower paced as i have lost interst here and am geting ready for main forum thread.

Than I want to say I have been thinking, you are coming to the coorect conclusion based on the evidence you allow in your worldview, your worldview demands that god is evil so when you here things like god acting as judge because of child sacrafice or other things your worldview wont accept that so it must be jews giving reasons to invade a country etc. So what your worldview allows is only that god has killed people you than must compare him [based on worldview] to some evil murderer because you wont allow any reason for it to take place that could say god is just and loving not evil. Untill you can realize this than there is no point in disucsion witch is why im geting boared. The bible calls this willingfully ignorant and blinded or hardened your own heart if you will. You dont want to see the truth so you never will, untill you have a change of heart you will only ever allow info you like to come in your worldview.

agagin I have to refrence those terrist hospital bombers was it?



When I was a child, my father beat me, left my mom, and once killed a defenseless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could be quite justified in saying that my father was an abusive pig of a man.
But you’re missing some information. He physically corrected me when I lied or stole. He left Mom because he worked long hours to financially take care of his beloved family. When he found a helpless dying animal on the side of the road, he put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so. The missing information shows that my dad was a very loving man
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...create-mankind



The topic was should we fear chirtians today causing a genocide you have done nothing to suport this at all.

but that is the issue you link biblical scholarship (which is ofc going to support what the bible says) so what is the point? It isn't objective. And you sir are the one claiming 20 letters (or more accurately 30) I show a biblical quote that with no possibility of misunderstanding says kill them all, including the children, you then claim that this is ok as it was 'only a few children' and the civilisation practised child sacrifice. I ask for objective sources that it in fact did. You supply religious sources that ofc back your argument as there entire point is to do so. I do you the courtesy of not linking to maltheist/atheist websites when talking about the bible, will you do the same and find non-Judeo/Christian sources to back your claims.
.

what claims? I show you more of the bible to show you are incorect and than you claim it is just there for a reason to do whatever they wanted. As for all killed children etc you cannot take todays language and force it on A ancient near eastern coluture written thousands of years ago before us. When did I say its ok its only a few? were is your refrence?

There is no such thing as a subjective refrence also show me a mistake with any of what I say that is what your supose to do. your commiting a logical fallacy atacking refrence [bible] when that is what your using to atack withcant have it both ways.



all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

For instance finding burned bodies: It is called cremation, it offers no evidence of child sacrifice, unless other supporting evidence is provided (and no the bible cannot be used to prove the bible, as that is circular reasoning). You see my claim is that the Bible orders genocide, you have tried to downgrade that to mass killing/ Ethnic Cleansing to make it seem less bad, as if that's ok by you for some reason?
.

The only evidence is not just burned bodies I have given you much mora and refrences again if you chose to deny this I dont care i fully understand your worldview will not accpt it anyways. You say I cant use bible as evidence yet you use it as evidence for what you call genocide read first post.

Think about it if the jews just wrote they killed children for a escuse than the bible is just a book of jews so you than cannot say god is eil because of what is written in bible because it is no longer gods word but just what some jews wrote see how many inconsitancies are in your worldview? I have no idea how you dont see this.


Im know going to unspoiler my responce to you claiming ethnic cleansing/mass killings.


Im know going to repost all you ignore every post of the difrence between your claims and what the bible says, soon ill start unspoiling more of this bit%h untill you start to deal with my responces.

some atributes of god

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7



7　If at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom, that I will pluck up and break down and destroy it, 8　and if that nation, concerning which I have spoken, turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I intended to do to it. 9　And if at any time I declare concerning a nation or a kingdom that I will build and plant it, 10　and if it does evil in my sight, not listening to my voice, then I will relent of the good that I had intended to do to it.
Jeremiah 18 7-10

god does not like the death of anyone but he is just and must judge he always gives time for repentance.

"'Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked?,' says the Lord God, 'And not rather that he should turn from his way and live? For I have no pleasure in the death of anyone,' says the Lord God. 'So turn and live! Say to them, "As I live," says the Lord God, "I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn back, turn back from your evil ways. For why will you die?"'" (Ez. 18.23,32; 33.11).


The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance" (2Pet. 3.9).

"He desires all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth" (1Tim. 2.4).

I call heaven and earth as witnesses today against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore choose life, that both you and your descendants may live;
Deuteronomy 30.19

god will forgive even the most sinfull nation if they repent and stop the evil they are doing.
jonah whole book also 3.10

The war was limited in time and space. lasting primarily one generation. The goal of the conquest was to remove the cananites from the land not to kill them.. Some stayed and faght so were killed.
The land belongs to god and Israel,so they were taking there land back. God gave them 400 years to repent of there sins.
The nations in cannan were given 3 options
1] leave- some left
2] war
3] join isreal
4]make peace treaty
any cannnite city could surrender and would be shown mercy
josh 2, rahab and family were saved cananites joined isreal 6.23
some cannanites were obsorbed into isreal rahab and 1 chronicles 21.15,18,28
cannanites were aware of god and his power josh2 9-11 9 9-10 they all new the miracles of god with isreal coming out of egypt and it is said were even afraid of isreal.
When god had Israel destroy the Canaanites it wasn't until 400 years of giving them time to repent , Israel stayed in slavery for over 200 years until the Canaanites sin was so great, that they deserved there fate. God warned them and gave them time to disperse from area, some would be driven out not all killed V Deuteronomy 12 29-30. It was only those who resisted this deportation who were exterminated:
Other cities in area were forbidden to be attacked by Israel the moabites dt 2.9 ammonites dt 2.19 and descendants of esau dt 2 4-6 .
Israel was required to make peace offerings to cities in cannan from a distance dt 20 10-16.
Canaanites destruction was not genocide or racism but because of moral behavior. God is judge of man, does not order killing out of malice or lawlessness Deuternomy 32.4
4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4
in 1 ch 28.3 king David is not the one allowed to build the temple because he has to much blood on his hands[ he killed to many people] even though they were god ordered killings, death is still a bad thing and not normal or natural part of life.


4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4

I like a point a friend of mine made about this. One Skeptic asked why God simply did not kill Hitler as a baby. Yet if "baby Hitler" had died, the Skeptic would ask why God did not prevent the death of this innocent baby. This shows that a far more critical view is needed than "argument by outrage." Indeed, "argument by outrage" often assumes a form of omniscience by the critic.


sometimes the death of someone is good in certain circumstances,sep 11 the president gave orders to shoot down planes-to save lives that the teriositt could have used to kill more inocent lives. Sometimes judges give the death penalty to certain murders,but we dont call them murders we call them good just judges.

The Canaanites initiated the attacks on Israel when isreal was defenseless killing children and woman elderly, ex 17 8-13 num 21.1 21-26 33-35 dut 2 26-37 3 1-22

　

they had 400 years to repent of there sins such as child sacrifice, the ones that remained if left alive would have carried on there culture [exampled African Americans in America not comparing the two in any way just continue of culture] so while the death of anyone is bad and death itself is bad given circumstances it was better than alternative [example Hitler]


cannanite society was a whole worldview and way of life witch is why god did not want isreal to mix with them and live with them. god jusdges for no other reason than the sins of the people amos 1-2 God did not hate the Canaanites but the crimes they committed.


36 They worshiped their idols,
which became a snare to them.
37 They sacrificed their sons
and their daughters to false gods.
38 They shed innocent blood,
the blood of their sons and daughters,
whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan,
and the land was desecrated by their blood.
39 They defiled themselves by what they did;
by their deeds they prostituted themselves.
psalm 106 36-38

　

they committed adultery in the temple, they chained woman to the temple and people would have sex with them, they sacrificed every first born babies to there god, which was a big furnace half man half bull , they had sex with animals male and female.
Also god gave them hundreds of years to repent, but they chose not to their influence was spreading to surrounding areas, so god had to do it, he has no joy in killing and he weeps for us, and with us, when death happens even to animals. Also Jericho is only ancient city not plundered when taken, just like the bible says, god told Israel not to plunder because this was for judgment.
When god destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah in genesis he said he would not destroy it until all good people were out.
this also was interfering with gods messianic line so either all die and go to hell or they are stopped. The bible says that if certain people were left alive they would fight against isreal and destroy the messianic line. Its like if hitler had been left alone to kill all jews,ascept being more important and killing off the messianic line before jesus was born.



God never comanded killing unbelivers, but god did judge sinful people.

4 "Do not think in your heart, after the LORD your God has cast them out before you, saying, ‘Because of my righteousness the LORD has brought me in to possess this land’; but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD is driving them out from before you.
Deuteronomy 9:4


Please read my replies before asking a question such as you have above as they directly reply to your claims and would anwser your question. Did america wage war on nonbelivers during ww2?or did they punish and stop a sinfull nation? cannaites burned children alive so did nazies. I belive while not good in itself, they both needed judgement. As I said in my post 400 years of child sacrafice is what it took for god to act

proclaiming, "The LORD, the LORD, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, 7 maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin. Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished
exodus 34 6-7

all the cananites were not wiped out judges 2.3 1.21 27-28
battles reported in bible do not mention any non combatents killed.
all destroyed all killed tyipical languge of day and not literal.
conquest of cannan uses hyperbolic language such as "all"common in bible example, jesus says of the generation he was on earth in human form that it was a evil and adulterers generation and all were bad, yet other times he calls individuals ritcous.

sterotypical langage of ancent near east, atacks lilkly on militray forts and garisions, no archlogical evidence for people civilians in teritories such as jericho or Ai these were military forts p 175 is god a moral monster paul copan
"without predisposing the reader to asume anything further about age or gender use of woman young old is sterotypical exspression for the destruction of all human life in the fort" p 176 is god a moral monster paul copan.
the term [ir] cities were used as outpost whole civilian populations lived in countryside. letters between pharoah and cannanite leaders show them to be distnict from each other.p176 is god a moral monster paul copan

Josh 13 1-6 15.63 17.12 judges 1 19-34 shows not all were killed.Many forighners lived among Israel and participated in covenant ceremony josh 8 33,35. There is no mention of any woman or children being killed, other ancient near eastern documents mention this from the time period if it happened.
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-Badly-Testament-Sexist/dp/0830838260

In Joshua 12, the victory list is given as 31 kings (generally petty kings of city-states) this would be around 70,000 people (assuming they all stayed around--a very dubious assumption in light of the international fear of Israel at the time).
But this 70,000 is against a base of close to 2 million people! (Israel was approximately 1.6 million at the time, and these nations are said to be 'more numerous' than Israel in a number of places--e.g. Deut 7.1,7.) This amounts to approximately 3.5% of the 'target population'. The Israelites were specifically told to execute those who remained in the cities (Deut 20.16) and those who hid in the Land--and therefore did NOT migrate out--Deut 7.20

The writers of the bible had a huge interest in seeming justified in what they did and how they acted, so claiming child sacrifice (which the Romans also did about there enemies btw) gives them a justification for both their gods instructions and the mass murder they committed in his name. It also makes there claim on the land seem some how better than everyone else.
.

had you read the bible you would see this to be false isrealites did not want to go into the land. Again read first post you will not allow info in that you dont like I have refrenced you to many non biblical historical and archlogical info on child sacrafice you wont accept that i understand this very well. Again your own argument counts on the bible being acurate about what it claims yet deny this part. Also in the magazine i refrenced in it has a refrence to A team of archologist from harvard named stager and wolff who have written refuting the claims of just burnt children in jars, as well as mentioning even the few scholors who claim they did not child sacrafice admitt it happened sometimes just not all of them, the back and forth argumnets are covered in 25.1 2012 bible and spade.

And I have the same interest in 'learning' the lessons of the bible as I have in 'learning' Mien Kampf, they both bring nothing but terror and oppression. Oh and if I am wrong? Better to be tortured for opposing tyranny and race war, than bow down to it and submit.

again it is very ovius you have never read the bible over and over not sure what else to say here.




prablems with your beliefs you dont respond to

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

your whole argument aginst cannaite child sacrafice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of cannan itself.

This also shows your belief strang because you say god ordered child sacrafice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabat

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individuale one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not intersted in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconcived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you oviuslly have not read the bible given your exodus and joshua qoutes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. Acording to you every judge in america that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england america for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people

[justicar5]

Except 'should we fear christians causing a genocide today' was NEVER THE TOPIC! That is the topic you decided we where debating! Then you changed the rules every single post to make any response I made off topic! You sir are not an honest actor in this matter.

[total relism]

Except 'should we fear christians causing a genocide today' was NEVER THE TOPIC! That is the topic you decided we where debating! Then you changed the rules every single post to make any response I made off topic! You sir are not an honest actor in this matter.

im sorry I thoght it was clear, what topic do you wish? I asked before you did not respond. but I was thinking some more on your beliefs I do think you may be mad at god for something in your life to cause your worldview i dont think you will be able to maintain it untill adulthood there are to many contridictions and inconsitancies that I think in future you will notice. One I was thinking of was why would god if he is behind all "religons" and is evil, give us commands in bible like dont kill dont steal dont rape love your enemie pray for them etc. why would god order isreal to kill the cannanites? for child sacrafice, wouldent he want that to continue? shouldent he tell isreal to do the same?. If you say that the whole child sacrafice is fake made up by isreal [rejecting all the evidence from history] than the bible was written by man not god and you would have to become athist as there is no god but invented by man.
I would love to if you wish continue this or other subjects qouetions in pm with you, I have noticed people are more honest and willing to discuess in pm's than fight clubs, to me I feel your lost like all are at times and i would love to just discuss with you ill listen to what you have to say, think about it, I would like you to know how much god does love you.

[justicar5]

im sorry I thoght it was clear, what topic do you wish? I asked before you did not respond. but I was thinking some more on your beliefs I do think you may be mad at god for something in your life to cause your worldview i dont think you will be able to maintain it untill adulthood there are to many contridictions and inconsitancies that I think in future you will notice. One I was thinking of was why would god if he is behind all "religons" and is evil, give us commands in bible like dont kill dont steal dont rape love your enemie pray for them etc. why would god order isreal to kill the cannanites? for child sacrafice, wouldent he want that to continue? shouldent he tell isreal to do the same?. If you say that the whole child sacrafice is fake made up by isreal [rejecting all the evidence from history] than the bible was written by man not god and you would have to become athist as there is no god but invented by man.
I would love to if you wish continue this or other subjects qouetions in pm with you, I have noticed people are more honest and willing to discuess in pm's than fight clubs, to me I feel your lost like all are at times and i would love to just discuss with you ill listen to what you have to say, think about it, I would like you to know how much god does love you.

I'm 32 years old, I thoroughly examined the bible as well as what sense I could make of other holy books, this along with the problem of evil is why I came to the conclusion that god itself is evil, as the commandments only apply to other believers (As made clear in both Talmudic and [early chruch] Old Testament theology), it is entirely internally consistent with that position.

[total relism]

I'm 32 years old, I thoroughly examined the bible as well as what sense I could make of other holy books, this along with the problem of evil is why I came to the conclusion that god itself is evil, as the commandments only apply to other believers (As made clear in both Talmudic and [early chruch] Old Testament theology), it is entirely internally consistent with that position.

32 wow, sorry. I have also read other holy books could you exspalin to me how you have come to conclusion they all come from one and the same god evil or not. I see A problem of evil with all religons but the bible. I also dont belive that you have read bible given some of your postings but there is no point in arguing if you have or not. So you have come to conculsion god is evil because there is death suffering etc? have you thoght about it much? no offence but the bible is pretty clear on the anwser not sure how you missed it. Are you sure you did not come to the anwser you wanted to come to? I agree all other religons in world its gods fault he created a world of death suffering etc not so with bible ill post below. Im not sure what your saying of comandments only apply to belivers they apply to all people everywere. Please exspalin alittle more on that.


proablem of evil

I do hope you take time and think on these subjects and look to understand them better and look for anwsers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

why is there death and suffering if god is all loving and a perfect sinless god?
According to the bible sin caused separation from god he no longer is with us. All the once very good creation know is falling apart death disease etc have entered everything is wearing old. god is perfect and cannot be around sin. He has to judge sin because it is imperfect. The original perfect creation was destroyed by mans sin, Everything bad that happens according to the bible ultimately is caused from separation form god.
Does this mean if i go get drunk and crash my car god did it? not at all this is my will not his, we have free will thats why we pray your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, matt 6 .10 gods will is not done here ours is, that is why when Jesus was around he spent time fighting disease death etc. the bible says death is the last enemy that will be defeated Corinthians 15.26.
When people asked Jesus if the 13 people that were builders died because they sinned in Jerusalem he said no, sometimes bad things happen to good people the whole creation is under this. So the bible teaches a original perfect creation free of death suffering as god created until sin and separation from him.

god has to judge to be just. if he allowed us to do whatever we wanted kill each other etc.
there would never be a heaven or paradise. it would really be no different than know.
God hates sin and cant be around it, so really all suffering death etc. is a consequence of being separated from god. according to the bible.

but your iniquities have made a separation
　　　between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden his face from you
　　　so that he does not hear.
Isiah 59.2

It is no longer gods creation

Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
matt chapter 4 8-9

9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

　　　　　　Our Father in heaven,
　　　　　　Hallowed be Your name.
　　　　　　 10 Your kingdom come.
　　　　　　Your will be done
　On earth as it is in heaven.
matt 6 9-10

　

　16 The highest heavens belong to the LORD,
　　　　　　 but the earth he has given to man.
Proverbs 18 -17

it is no longer gods creation it was given to man, psalm 8.6,gen 1 26-28 jesus calls the devil the prince and ruler of this world.

John 18 36 jesus says I am not of this world
matt 4 8-9 god is not the ruler of this world.

god gave us free will to accept or deny him we chose to deny. he could have made us all perfect pray all day always do the right thing follow all his rules.But thats not love god wants us to chose to follow him out of love which only comes with free will.

Only when god is in full control when his will is done that there will be no more wars and only peace.
God is not in control of this world his will is not done here.

What it will be like when he is in full control.
　

　1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."
Revelations chapter 21 1-5

　
　
　

The wolf will live with the lamb,
　　　the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
　　　and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
　　　their young will lie down together,
　　　and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
　　　the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
　　　on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD
Isiah 11 6-9

　
　

1 The vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
2 In the last days
he mountain of the LORD's house will be established
　　　 at the top of the mountains
　　　 and will be raised above the hills.
　　　 All nations will stream to it,
　　　 3 and many peoples will come and say,
　　　 "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
　　　 to the house of the God of Jacob.
　　　 He will teach us about His ways
　　　 so that we may walk in His paths."
　　　 For instruction will go out of Zion
　　　 and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
　　　 4 He will settle disputes among the nations
　　　 and provide arbitration for many peoples.
　　　 They will turn their swords into plows
　　　 and their spears into pruning knives.
　　　 Nations will not take up the sword against [other] nations,
　　　 and they will never again train for war.
Isaiah 2 1-4

　
　
　

also there would be no punishment and separation from god if we all followed these two commandments.

36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
　37 Jesus replied: "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:36-40 referring to Deuteronomy 6.5 and Leviticus 19.18

　

8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments:
　　　 You shall not commit adultery,
　　　 you shall not murder,
　　　 you shall not steal,
　　　 you shall not covet,
　　　 and if there is any other commandment—all are summed up by this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
　　　 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13 8-9

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Galatians 5 22-23



8 Then the word of the LORD came to Zechariah, saying, 9 "Thus says the LORD of hosts:
Execute true justice,
　　　　　　Show mercy and compassion
　　　　　　Everyone to his brother.
　　　　　　 10 Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
　　　　　　The alien or the poor.
　　　　　　Let none of you plan evil in his heart
　　　　　　Against his brother.’
Zechariah 7 8-10

　

8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.
micah 6.8

when believers die it is precious in the lords sight,because they enter into a true relationship with him with no sin or separation
psalm 116.15
　

great article on why we suffer crsq vol 45 2010 and the creation weeps 155-158
http://www.creationresearch.org/members-HYPERLINK

and just think about it, it makes no sence to be athist and say anything is good or bad


morality
"if it all happens naturalsitically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jefery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.

[justicar5]

32 wow, sorry. I have also read other holy books could you exspalin to me how you have come to conclusion they all come from one and the same god evil or not. I see A problem of evil with all religons but the bible. I also dont belive that you have read bible given some of your postings but there is no point in arguing if you have or not. So you have come to conculsion god is evil because there is death suffering etc? have you thoght about it much? no offence but the bible is pretty clear on the anwser not sure how you missed it. Are you sure you did not come to the anwser you wanted to come to? I agree all other religons in world its gods fault he created a world of death suffering etc not so with bible ill post below. Im not sure what your saying of comandments only apply to belivers they apply to all people everywere. Please exspalin alittle more on that.


proablem of evil

I do hope you take time and think on these subjects and look to understand them better and look for anwsers.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

why is there death and suffering if god is all loving and a perfect sinless god?
According to the bible sin caused separation from god he no longer is with us. All the once very good creation know is falling apart death disease etc have entered everything is wearing old. god is perfect and cannot be around sin. He has to judge sin because it is imperfect. The original perfect creation was destroyed by mans sin, Everything bad that happens according to the bible ultimately is caused from separation form god.
Does this mean if i go get drunk and crash my car god did it? not at all this is my will not his, we have free will thats why we pray your will be done on earth as it is in heaven, matt 6 .10 gods will is not done here ours is, that is why when Jesus was around he spent time fighting disease death etc. the bible says death is the last enemy that will be defeated Corinthians 15.26.
When people asked Jesus if the 13 people that were builders died because they sinned in Jerusalem he said no, sometimes bad things happen to good people the whole creation is under this. So the bible teaches a original perfect creation free of death suffering as god created until sin and separation from him.

god has to judge to be just. if he allowed us to do whatever we wanted kill each other etc.
there would never be a heaven or paradise. it would really be no different than know.
God hates sin and cant be around it, so really all suffering death etc. is a consequence of being separated from god. according to the bible.

but your iniquities have made a separation
　　　between you and your God,
and your sins have hidden his face from you
　　　so that he does not hear.
Isiah 59.2

It is no longer gods creation

Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
matt chapter 4 8-9

9 In this manner, therefore, pray:

　　　　　　Our Father in heaven,
　　　　　　Hallowed be Your name.
　　　　　　 10 Your kingdom come.
　　　　　　Your will be done
　On earth as it is in heaven.
matt 6 9-10

　

　16 The highest heavens belong to the LORD,
　　　　　　 but the earth he has given to man.
Proverbs 18 -17

it is no longer gods creation it was given to man, psalm 8.6,gen 1 26-28 jesus calls the devil the prince and ruler of this world.

John 18 36 jesus says I am not of this world
matt 4 8-9 god is not the ruler of this world.

god gave us free will to accept or deny him we chose to deny. he could have made us all perfect pray all day always do the right thing follow all his rules.But thats not love god wants us to chose to follow him out of love which only comes with free will.

Only when god is in full control when his will is done that there will be no more wars and only peace.
God is not in control of this world his will is not done here.

What it will be like when he is in full control.
　

　1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away."
5 Then He who sat on the throne said, "Behold, I make all things new."
Revelations chapter 21 1-5

　
　
　

The wolf will live with the lamb,
　　　the leopard will lie down with the goat,
the calf and the lion and the yearling[a] together;
　　　and a little child will lead them.
7 The cow will feed with the bear,
　　　their young will lie down together,
　　　and the lion will eat straw like the ox.
8 The infant will play near the cobra’s den,
　　　the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest.
9 They will neither harm nor destroy
　　　on all my holy mountain,
for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the LORD
Isiah 11 6-9

　
　

1 The vision that Isaiah son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem:
2 In the last days
he mountain of the LORD's house will be established
　　　 at the top of the mountains
　　　 and will be raised above the hills.
　　　 All nations will stream to it,
　　　 3 and many peoples will come and say,
　　　 "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
　　　 to the house of the God of Jacob.
　　　 He will teach us about His ways
　　　 so that we may walk in His paths."
　　　 For instruction will go out of Zion
　　　 and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
　　　 4 He will settle disputes among the nations
　　　 and provide arbitration for many peoples.
　　　 They will turn their swords into plows
　　　 and their spears into pruning knives.
　　　 Nations will not take up the sword against [other] nations,
　　　 and they will never again train for war.
Isaiah 2 1-4

　
　
　

also there would be no punishment and separation from god if we all followed these two commandments.

36 "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
　37 Jesus replied: "‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments." Matthew 22:36-40 referring to Deuteronomy 6.5 and Leviticus 19.18

　

8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law. 9 The commandments:
　　　 You shall not commit adultery,
　　　 you shall not murder,
　　　 you shall not steal,
　　　 you shall not covet,
　　　 and if there is any other commandment—all are summed up by this: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.
　　　 10 Love does no wrong to a neighbor. Love, therefore, is the fulfillment of the law.
Romans 13 8-9

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law
Galatians 5 22-23



8 Then the word of the LORD came to Zechariah, saying, 9 "Thus says the LORD of hosts:
Execute true justice,
　　　　　　Show mercy and compassion
　　　　　　Everyone to his brother.
　　　　　　 10 Do not oppress the widow or the fatherless,
　　　　　　The alien or the poor.
　　　　　　Let none of you plan evil in his heart
　　　　　　Against his brother.’
Zechariah 7 8-10

　

8 He has shown you, O mortal, what is good.
And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly[a] with your God.
micah 6.8

when believers die it is precious in the lords sight,because they enter into a true relationship with him with no sin or separation
psalm 116.15
　

great article on why we suffer crsq vol 45 2010 and the creation weeps 155-158
http://www.creationresearch.org/members-HYPERLINK

and just think about it, it makes no sence to be athist and say anything is good or bad


morality
"if it all happens naturalsitically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jefery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.

'The Problem of Evil' is a philosophical dilemma, concerning a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent deity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

This leads to other questions, to whit: If you take the free will answer, you then get the problem of what God's commandments actually are: As you failed to acknowledge the OT makes it very clear that the faithful have to murder non-believers, take slaves, engage in forced marriage, kill children for trivial disobedience, stone women to death for being the victims of rape (or force them to marry there rapists, I wonder if this choice was offered? and if so how many chose death?) the list goes on, honestly it is atrocity after atrocity, and gives context to the genocide orders, making your 'explanation' that it was 'only a little genocide against people who deserved it' (To which claim you still haven't provided independent support) unlikely, as it would not fit the character of Yahweh as shown in the rest of the OT

ACtually we can look at the NT, where St John the Divine lays out gods plan most clearly, revelations 14:14-20 where (depending on translations) either the faithful or the angels in person gather up the peoples of earth/the crop of the earth, and crush them to death in a wine press, making a river of blood hundreds of miles long, and that is what the 'new peaceful Yahweh' wants to do, slaughter people by crushing them to death.

Oh and absolute morals? HAving actually read your holy book, it is moral relativism at it's height, OT morals are Bronze Age, NT Morals are Roman, and 'modern church values' are Medieval.

Also it is insulting to all other faiths to claim that christians have a monopoly on morality. Buddhists have you whipped hollow for a start.

[total relism]

'The Problem of Evil' is a philosophical dilemma, concerning a benevolent, omniscient, omnipotent deity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Problem_of_evil

This leads to other questions, to whit: If you take the free will answer, you then get the problem of what God's commandments actually are: As you failed to acknowledge the OT makes it very clear that the faithful have to murder non-believers, take slaves, engage in forced marriage, kill children for trivial disobedience, stone women to death for being the victims of rape (or force them to marry there rapists, I wonder if this choice was offered? and if so how many chose death?) the list goes on, honestly it is atrocity after atrocity, and gives context to the genocide orders, making your 'explanation' that it was 'only a little genocide against people who deserved it' (To which claim you still haven't provided independent support) unlikely, as it would not fit the character of Yahweh as shown in the rest of the OT

ACtually we can look at the NT, where St John the Divine lays out gods plan most clearly, revelations 14:14-20 where (depending on translations) either the faithful or the angels in person gather up the peoples of earth/the crop of the earth, and crush them to death in a wine press, making a river of blood hundreds of miles long, and that is what the 'new peaceful Yahweh' wants to do, slaughter people by crushing them to death.

Oh and absolute morals? HAving actually read your holy book, it is moral relativism at it's height, OT morals are Bronze Age, NT Morals are Roman, and 'modern church values' are Medieval.

Also it is insulting to all other faiths to claim that christians have a monopoly on morality. Buddhists have you whipped hollow for a start.

To claim you have read bible may work for athist freinds who have not but it seems safe to me to say you get info off wiki and athist websites. You also dont respond to anything i say just move on to something else and ignore responces.
I use to think you actually belived what you were saying or at least thoght it to be true I know see very difrently, also as you have said god is evil and creted all religons so how can one religon whip another? you contridict yourself over and over.
For anwsers and responces to your claims I will link you to my earlier responces and unless you add something to the disucsion we are supose to be having dont espect a respoince anytime soon.


But thank you for engaging in this i shall use as refrence in future.



slavery rape post 3 of our debateand many after
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527050

murder non belivers

post 24 of our debateand many before and after
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2


please anwser me these


prablems with your beliefs you dont respond to

your whole argument aginst cannaite child sacrafice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of cannan itself.

This also shows your belief strang because you say god ordered child sacrafice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabat

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individuale one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not intersted in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconcived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you oviuslly have not read the bible given your exodus and joshua qoutes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. Acording to you every judge in america that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england america for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people


Happy st pattys day, I just want you to know my replies will be slower paced as i have lost interst here and am geting ready for main forum thread.

Than I want to say I have been thinking, you are coming to the coorect conclusion based on the evidence you allow in your worldview, your worldview demands that god is evil so when you here things like god acting as judge because of child sacrafice or other things your worldview wont accept that so it must be jews giving reasons to invade a country etc. So what your worldview allows is only that god has killed people you than must compare him [based on worldview] to some evil murderer because you wont allow any reason for it to take place that could say god is just and loving not evil. Untill you can realize this than there is no point in disucsion witch is why im geting boared. The bible calls this willingfully ignorant and blinded or hardened your own heart if you will. You dont want to see the truth so you never will, untill you have a change of heart you will only ever allow info you like to come in your worldview.

agagin I have to refrence those terrist hospital bombers was it?



When I was a child, my father beat me, left my mom, and once killed a defenseless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could be quite justified in saying that my father was an abusive pig of a man.
But you’re missing some information. He physically corrected me when I lied or stole. He left Mom because he worked long hours to financially take care of his beloved family. When he found a helpless dying animal on the side of the road, he put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so. The missing information shows that my dad was a very loving man
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...create-mankind



The topic was should we fear chirtians today causing a genocide you have done nothing to suport this at all.






and just think about it, it makes no sence to be athist and say anything is good or bad


morality
"if it all happens naturalsitically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jefery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.









engage in rape and forced mariage i missed your refrence so ill wait to post, you must be working off well know athist because you bring up all most common objections responded to in books like http://www.amazon.com/God-Moral-Mons.../dp/0801072751
and
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-B...2350184&sr=1-1

its really to easy for me I just copy paste.

[justicar5]

To claim you have read bible may work for athist freinds who have not but it seems safe to me to say you get info off wiki and athist websites. You also dont respond to anything i say just move on to something else and ignore responces.
I use to think you actually belived what you were saying or at least thoght it to be true I know see very difrently, also as you have said god is evil and creted all religons so how can one religon whip another? you contridict yourself over and over.
For anwsers and responces to your claims I will link you to my earlier responces and unless you add something to the disucsion we are supose to be having dont espect a respoince anytime soon.


But thank you for engaging in this i shall use as refrence in future.



slavery rape post 3 of our debateand many after
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527050

murder non belivers

post 24 of our debateand many before and after
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2


please anwser me these


prablems with your beliefs you dont respond to

your whole argument aginst cannaite child sacrafice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of cannan itself.

This also shows your belief strang because you say god ordered child sacrafice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the cannanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determin what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religon in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and aparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unralible. Is it just your opnion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabat

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individuale one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not intersted in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconcived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you oviuslly have not read the bible given your exodus and joshua qoutes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. Acording to you every judge in america that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england america for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people


Happy st pattys day, I just want you to know my replies will be slower paced as i have lost interst here and am geting ready for main forum thread.

Than I want to say I have been thinking, you are coming to the coorect conclusion based on the evidence you allow in your worldview, your worldview demands that god is evil so when you here things like god acting as judge because of child sacrafice or other things your worldview wont accept that so it must be jews giving reasons to invade a country etc. So what your worldview allows is only that god has killed people you than must compare him [based on worldview] to some evil murderer because you wont allow any reason for it to take place that could say god is just and loving not evil. Untill you can realize this than there is no point in disucsion witch is why im geting boared. The bible calls this willingfully ignorant and blinded or hardened your own heart if you will. You dont want to see the truth so you never will, untill you have a change of heart you will only ever allow info you like to come in your worldview.

agagin I have to refrence those terrist hospital bombers was it?



When I was a child, my father beat me, left my mom, and once killed a defenseless animal with his bare hands. With that information you could be quite justified in saying that my father was an abusive pig of a man.
But you’re missing some information. He physically corrected me when I lied or stole. He left Mom because he worked long hours to financially take care of his beloved family. When he found a helpless dying animal on the side of the road, he put the poor animal out of its misery, and it grieved him to do so. The missing information shows that my dad was a very loving man
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...create-mankind



The topic was should we fear chirtians today causing a genocide you have done nothing to suport this at all.






and just think about it, it makes no sence to be athist and say anything is good or bad


morality
"if it all happens naturalsitically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jefery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.









engage in rape and forced mariage i missed your refrence so ill wait to post, you must be working off well know athist because you bring up all most common objections responded to in books like http://www.amazon.com/God-Moral-Mons.../dp/0801072751
and
http://www.amazon.com/God-Behaving-B...2350184&sr=1-1

its really to easy for me I just copy paste.

I have answered the Canaanite child sacrifice issue again and again :IT'S CALLED PROPAGANDA! Israel saw land they wanted, god gave them rules of engagement, and they lied about Canaanite 'crimes' (or rather the people who put the bible together centuries later did) to make genocide more palatable to the other powers in the region. Simple. Said it multiple times.


Oh and so hang on, anyone objecting to the blatant and frequent murders and rapes in the bible (and it's laws on slavery etc)is of a conspiracy? It can't be that people independently come to the conclusion that the bible is monstrous? I mean come on you are in Holocaust denial territory here, the book lays out the rules, the book lays out the punishments, and you then claim the bible is wrong? It doesn't mean what it says?

Oh and until I was about 18 I was a Baptist. We took the bible seriously (I can still remember my preacher calling for capital punishment for homosexuality and adultery, and for the regular 'chastisement' for disobedient wife's and children)

Also a questin is the only reason you find murder abhorrent the commandment Thou Shalt Not kill?

[total relism]

I have answered the Canaanite child sacrifice issue again and again :IT'S CALLED PROPAGANDA! Israel saw land they wanted, god gave them rules of engagement, and they lied about Canaanite 'crimes' (or rather the people who put the bible together centuries later did) to make genocide more palatable to the other powers in the region. Simple. Said it multiple times.


Oh and so hang on, anyone objecting to the blatant and frequent murders and rapes in the bible (and it's laws on slavery etc)is of a conspiracy? It can't be that people independently come to the conclusion that the bible is monstrous? I mean come on you are in Holocaust denial territory here, the book lays out the rules, the book lays out the punishments, and you then claim the bible is wrong? It doesn't mean what it says?

Oh and until I was about 18 I was a Baptist. We took the bible seriously (I can still remember my preacher calling for capital punishment for homosexuality and adultery, and for the regular 'chastisement' for disobedient wife's and children)

Also a questin is the only reason you find murder abhorrent the commandment Thou Shalt Not kill?

I like that the person who thinks the holocaust started because the jews killed jesus askes if I deny the holocaust. Second this is so weird I was just in A debate when all these objections were raised I responded but was unable to get a responce or evidence to back up the claims maybe you can I will link you there.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527050

[justicar5]

I like that the person who thinks the holocaust started because the jews killed jesus askes if I deny the holocaust. Second this is so weird I was just in A debate when all these objections were raised I responded but was unable to get a responce or evidence to back up the claims maybe you can I will link you there.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=527050

The holocaust was made possible because the Christian view was that the Jews killed Jesus. Was it entirely about that ? No but the Christians casting the Jews as scum made it alot easier. And that link is back to your first post.

[justicar5]

Do you forfeit then?

[total relism]

The holocaust was made possible because the Christian view was that the Jews killed Jesus. Was it entirely about that ? No but the Christians casting the Jews as scum made it alot easier. And that link is back to your first post.

Do you forfeit then?

forfeit implies losing I cannot, I said I have lost interest and will reply very slowly Im starting new thread in 2 days in main forum.

I just watched a day or two ago this debate here http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product...roducts_id=271

you are just like the muslim, he rejects all passages that teach jesus is god claims they were added later, when asked for evidence from text or other he cannot give any. Just like you,you accept parts of bible you like and reject others not based on evidence but your worldview wont allow it, same with muslim who's worldview wont allow him to accept jesus as god because koran says so, so he claims they were added later etc he gets laghed at by audiance for his circular reasoning.

As far as hitler goes I dont care if you think it is A reason you will no matter what, I care what hitler said the reason was and what he thaght of chritianity and the bible I posted earlier on this.

[justicar5]

forfeit implies losing I cannot, I said I have lost interest and will reply very slowly Im starting new thread in 2 days in main forum.

I just watched a day or two ago this debate here http://www.aomin.org/catalog/product...roducts_id=271

you are just like the muslim, he rejects all passages that teach jesus is god claims they were added later, when asked for evidence from text or other he cannot give any. Just like you,you accept parts of bible you like and reject others not based on evidence but your worldview wont allow it, same with muslim who's worldview wont allow him to accept jesus as god because koran says so, so he claims they were added later etc he gets laghed at by audiance for his circular reasoning.

As far as hitler goes I dont care if you think it is A reason you will no matter what, I care what hitler said the reason was and what he thaght of chritianity and the bible I posted earlier on this.

All I claim is that god ordered a genocide, you then try to deny/justify this, by claiming without supporting evidence (from neutral third parties so Answers In Genesis, the copy pasting of which makes up the majority of you argument even after I politely asked you not to do that) , that the Canaanites did child sacrifices and other things that meant they deserved eradication. Did the Germans deserve eradication for the Holocaust? Do the Russians for the gulag system? Do the Japanese for the death marches? Notice this wasn't simple punishment this was the obliteration of an entire people and culture, for alleged crimes documented in only one place.

Either God is real and magically destroyed this evidence (or made it so obscure that only people from religious institutions can find it) Or God ordered this for the Evulz, or god doesn't and israel did it and made up a justification later. I'm semi-convinced of option 2.

Now on the moral superiority of non-chrisitian religions (the example I gave being Buddhism, well some strains at least, some others are to odd for me to comment on properly) this can be simply explained: they have no god, or rather do not base there morality upon a god. They instead base it on the 'fundamental nature of life' (At least I think so, again a touch odd) The Karma system. They don't make a judgement on god or gods, they simply state that such beings would be bound by karma like everything else.

[total relism]

All I claim is that god ordered a genocide, you then try to deny/justify this, by claiming without supporting evidence (from neutral third parties so Answers In Genesis, the copy pasting of which makes up the majority of you argument even after I politely asked you not to do that) , that the Canaanites did child sacrifices and other things that meant they deserved eradication. Did the Germans deserve eradication for the Holocaust? Do the Russians for the gulag system? Do the Japanese for the death marches? Notice this wasn't simple punishment this was the obliteration of an entire people and culture, for alleged crimes documented in only one place.
.

I gave you references over and over from archeology etc and your whole argument as I said is circular.accept passages you like reject passages you dint like [child sacrifice] god never ordered genocide ill reference you to a debate i had on this

read post 24
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2

Either God is real and magically destroyed this evidence (or made it so obscure that only people from religious institutions can find it) Or God ordered this for the Evil, or god doesn't and Israel did it and made up a justification later. I'm semi-convinced of option 2.
.

you know nothing or archeology, first there is evidence but you will reject because it does not sit your worldview, I have posted no reason to post again ill reference
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...=527050&page=2

There is much known from history with no arch logical evidence lack of evidence is not evidence against, and we do have evidence anyways. Also what is your evidence it did not happen besides your worldview? over and over the bible says when Israel went to war against gods commands its full of what Israel did wrong over and over so why silent here? why would Israel only take a certain area and not keep expanding? if just a escuss? why when first going in through edom not attack but move around? because god told them not to.

Now on the moral superiority of non-Christian religions (the example I gave being Buddhism, well some strains at least, some others are to odd for me to comment on properly) this can be simply explained: they have no god, or rather do not base there morality upon a god. They instead base it on the 'fundamental nature of life' (At least I think so, again a touch odd) The Karma system. They don't make a judgment on god or gods, they simply state that such beings would be bound by karma like everything else.

do you not say god is evil and behind al religions? you contradict yourself here again so what do you believe than? again with no god there is no right or wrong you make no sense in your argument's you refute your own position and destroy your own attacks over and over.

morality
"if it all happens materialistically whats the need for a god? cant I set my own rules? who owns me? I own myself".
Jeffery dahmer DVD documentary Jeffrey Dahmer the monster within
This is inconsistent with an evolutionary worldview in which there is no logical basis for "good" or "bad." By making such a statement, the evolutionist is actually borrowing morals from the Christian worldview and the Bible in order to claim something is "trickery."
Within a naturalistic, evolutionary worldview, morality is merely a matter of subjective opinion. So, whether something such as trickery or deception is wrong depends on each person—because it’s merely the result of chemical reactions in our brains.
I could just as easily say that this email we received is deceptive and full of wishful thinking. And if I get a big enough group together, we can decide that your definition of trickery is wrong. The combined random chemical reactions in our brains form the majority, which makes you wrong—at least until another majority comes along. Without any ultimate standard, we could go back and forth all day saying this is right or that is right.
As silly as this scenario sounds, it is one of the only arguments evolutionists have for anything that resembles morality. Absolute morals only make sense in a Christian worldview—they come from the One who knows what is good because He is the standard for good. The only One who fits that description is the God of the Bible, the Creator of the universe.


and I see this as unmoral, yes they believe in karma that is why when all those people died on tsunami it was Christians who helped because to them those people got what they deserved karma. The cast system is moral to you? wow, also how if all is karma can you say the babies being sacrificed is bad they get what they deserve as well as the Jews in ww2 yet you argue these things are wrong. You have so many inconstancies and contradictions how have you survived with this worldview so long?


you keep adding to this list


your whole argument against Canaanite child sacrifice is to say the bible is wrong about it, than claim the very same bible a few passages later is true about the conquest of Canaan itself.

This also shows your belief strange because you say god ordered child sacrifice, yet than says it detestable and worthy of judgment, how can the Canaanite god also be the god of the bible. .

I also want to ask you how you determine what is good or bad,what is evil or good, you cannot use anything from any religion in the world to base it on as they are all from a evil god and apparently some passages we can trust [the ones you that fit your beliefs] and the rest are unreliable. Is it just your opinion on what is good or bad? and how can you say what Hitler did was bad?


I want to show you how you argue,how old are you? just wanting to know.

herse you

you say- there are 20 letters in the english alphabet

someone shows there are 26

you ignore and say but I showed you there are 20 i showed all 20

someone again shows there are 26

you ignore no I made a statement there are 20 so there are 20 and I showed each individual one

somehow in your mind you only let in what you want to here.


i feel you are not untested in learning the bible but in making it fit into your preconceived ideas beliefs of what god must be,because you obviously have not read the bible given your exodus and Joshua quotes as well as you seem to still be saying god ordered rape and genocide. According to you every judge in America that has given death penalty is guilty of genocide or every police officer who killed a murderer every military officer england America for fighting in ww2 etc.


So I have been thinking, untill you notice your own worldview and how it will only allow information that fits your preconcived ideas beliefs about god you will never be able to have a fruitful discusion with me or anyone else for that matter.
Its A type of circular reasoning, you assume to be correct that god is evil and god is behind all religons of man, so than anything that contridicts that you discard as unreliable with no logic reason for doing so, this matains your belief of A evil god. In fact to do so you must contridict your own belief in god, he is good sometimes and bad sometimes, he is at war with himself in your view.


My thoghts and I could be wrong, are you dont want to admit to there is A god who judges, because you deep down know you are A sinner and dont want to ask forgivness maybe pride. Or you deep down are evil and like things like childsacrafice and dont think god should judge those people

[justicar5]

Biblical Archaeologists! KEY WORD: BIBLICAL! They are trying to prove the bible! They are paid for by fundamentalists , They are in fact not neutral sources! It's akin to linking David Icke to 'prove' that shape shifting lizards have taken over the world!

The Cast system is HINDU not Buddhist, nice try there, wrong religion (this one has a god so falls under the sway of the same trap Christianity is in). And the rest looks like a re post of what you have already said, literally copy pasting your self. (Down to asking my age again, so I'll turn that around, how old are you?)

And then you link that terror supporting hate site AGAIN! (Unattributed again, so that's dishonest) Unless you cease I will have to assume your a dishonest debater and you concede.

Source on the Caste system: http://asianhistory.about.com/od/ind...astesystem.htm