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Thread: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

  1. #21
    DeValiere's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    I agree about the agriculture and in fact the entire "rich town/poor town" system is somewhat annoying anyway. Logically if you upgrade your farm, or smithy or whatever - it should be reflected in that towns status but you can still have poor towns even after doing all that! Grrr....

    As for Steam, I don't really like the idea of tying a game to them and using them to deliver updates and assure game copy is legal - it puts the players at arms length from CA and SEGA. If the game company and Steam fall out, where the heck does that leave everyone? I have had enough games over the years that had some form of stupid game protection integrated that caused problems that I'm grateful that this aspect of Steam works OK for me but still. I kind of don't mind Steam as a game delivery system if you're buying off them directly as their prices are good. But I do not like that I was forced to join Steam so I could play Empire. Mind you, had to for Borderlands as well and one or two others. Sigh.
    Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"-- with his mouth.
    Mark Twain - What Is Man?

  2. #22
    Ferdiad's Avatar Patricius
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Steam is used by more and more games these days, It's hardly a reason to complain.

  3. #23
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    The Steam-Engine without doubt is not very popular at least in the german gaming community for various reasons.
    However comming back to Empire Total War more specifically there is one feature I would very much like to see in the game.
    As we all know military engagements between AI-factions are only calculated as long as no human player is directly involved.
    It might sound somewhat eccentric but I would like to have the option to decide to actually observe AI confrontations on the battlefield.

  4. #24
    Robertclive's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    World map with Napoleonic/Shogun battle and campaign features. 1700-to before WW1 or 1800-before WW1. OHHHHHHHHHHH

  5. #25
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    I would also like some sort of lend and lease option for units. For example the abillity to transfer regiments from my army to an allied army
    with the choice to pay for the upkeep cost.
    Last edited by Taraphir; March 16, 2012 at 06:54 PM.

  6. #26

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    10 points I´d like to see as part of Empire: Total War 2

    1. I would expand the timeline forwards a little(to cover the Napoleonic wars) and backwards A LOT. 1600 sounds about right to me. I feel like CA kind of missed out on the golden opportunity to portray the massive shift in tactics between the pike and shot era and the era of musket-armed line infantry. I´d like to start with pike-and-arquebus formations, not to mention halberdiers and other melee units along with armored cavalry and gradually research my way to the kind of units found in E:TW.

    2. More distinction between wars of conquest and wars of defense. Units like militias should get substantial bonuses to morale and other stats when fighting in the region they were raised in, to reflect the fact that they are defending their own homes and their heart is really into it. Randomly declaring war on a nation which is well-liked in your nation should likewise result in morale penalties against your troops as their heart really isn't in the fight. This would make it a litle more difficult for big empires to subjugate minor nations, as as long as they are on their home soil, militias should be able to give line infantry armies a run for their money. I think militias should be able to skirmish as well while in their home region, reflecting their intimate knowledge of the environment. They should also be able to spot enemy armies far further away than the enemy can spot them - this reflect the fact that they have the locals on their side feeding them intelligence while nobody is giving information to the evil invader!

    3. Wars should be more costly to fight. One of the hallmarks of early modern warfare was that they could never be fought on the basis of current revenue alone - monarchs and republics alike should have to go into debt due to the upkeep of active armies and navies and then pay off those debts during times of peace. This was the actual reason for most of the peace treaties signed during the era. Sieges in particular were incredibly expensive, which brings me to the next point:

    4. Sieges need a complete overhaul, both in how they are fought on the battle map and how they are treated on the campaign map. We need new models for the forts themselves, lower-walled forts bristling with cannons and dotted with bastions, surrounded by moats that are impassable to infantry. No more clambering over high walls medieval-style. Besieging a city for a few turns should yield positive benefits when you actually storm the damn place. Dedicated engineer units that allow the attacker to dig trenches, slowly inching closer and closer to the walls so powerful short-range cannons can be brought to bear should be the way sieges are fought. Armies on both sides of the siege should also suffer attrition damage reflecting the constant sniping and artillery pounding, although in order to really cause attrition to a port city, it would need to be cut off from the sea as well.

    5. Expand the roles of protectorates and create more particular kind of treaties you can strike with other nations. Trade agreements and military access is all fine and dandy, but I would also like to get the ability to resupply and replenish my fleets in the harbors of protectorates and other allies, and to be able to request them to raise troops to assist me, at least in defensive war. These protectorate regiments would be placed under the command of the player himself to direct instead of depending on the AI to place them where they are of use.

    6. Offset the high cost of war by creating a unit status "demobilized" When demobilized, a unit is greyed-out and has less upkeep costs associated with them, cannot be moved or used for repression purposes etc, but can be re-activated within a turn or two. A regiment can only be demobilized in the region it was created. This reflects the soldiers going back to their homes, tending to their farms and shops, drawing lower rates of pay etc, while their equipment is stored away. If a unit is demobilized for a set number of years it loses experience(as the soldiers grow older and the veterans are lost to infirmity), but while demobilized it doesn't drain the treasury. Combined with a higher upkeep cost in general, this would tempt players to keep as much of their veteran regiments demobilized whenever not actively on campaign, which could leave them vulnerable to a surprise declaration of war, as for at least a turn or two their army is mobilizing. Militias and other low-upkeep units could be mobilized more rapidly. I think this would create an interesting dynamic.

    7. Supply train units. These special units are worthless in combat but have a zone of influence around them that shields soldiers from the worst effects of attrition from campaigning in foreign lands. I believe Napoleon has something along these lines(haven't played it yet). Tempting targets for small cavalry units running around in the enemies rear, and the supply units themselves should have limited lifespans before having to be shuffled back to friendly towns to be replenished. This would make extended campaigns in large regions like Russia or the great American plains a tricky matter of keeping a revolving system of supply wagons going back and forth, unless you want your troops to starve to death on the march. Armies who are not adequately supplied and whose upkeep costs are not paid for a set number of terms can go rogue, refusing to follow orders or even going on a rampage across the countryside, looting and burning. This actually happened a lot in early modern Europe, Spanish armies in Flanders routinely turned to banditry when their wages were not paid and Swedish forces in Germany during the 30 years war actually briefly held the governor-general Axel Oxenstierna hostage, threatening to come back to Sweden and collect their wages one way or another. I´d like to see more of this dynamic in E:TW, where large armies can be a double-edged sword for a financially-challenged state.

    8. More realistic transporting of troops at sea. I can transport a full-stack of line infantry on a single brig or sloop, a host whose size far outnumbers the crew of the ship, and early modern ships were cramped to begin with! If you want to ship huge armies across water, you should need dedicated troop transport ships that have sacrificed both crew and cannon to be able to cram passengers aboard. These ships would of course have to be guarded closely. Smaller units like cannons and their crew would take up less space. Cavalry should also not be usable right off the bat after a deep-sea voyage - horses REALLY don't like being at sea for biological reasons and their health suffers greatly, and they need to be well-rested before campaigning after say, a transatlantic voyage. On the topic of navies, larger ships of the line that have researched the appropriate should be able to purchase as "add-ons" contingencies of Marines, crack troops that can be sent to fight on land, something like 20-40 elite troopers per ship, in addition to possibly fielding "landing parties" of the crew themselves(which should be more mob-like units with not-so-great-stats). This way a larger fleet could actually field a pretty decent army to storm ports and burn ships at anchor without having to soil themselves by working with any landlubbers

    One more thing about troops at sea - they should suffer attrition on long voyages unless the fleet is able to put into friendly ports along the way. I hate it how I can leave an army just floating out at sea for years on end with no negative effects.

    9. Still on the topic of navies - there needs to be a distinction made between coastal waters, seas closer to land and the deep oceans. Certain ship types like galleons simply can't go too far out while large ships of the line simply can't chase smaller vessels everywhere - in shallow waters they risk running aground if they give chase. This would mean that you'd need different types of navies for different missions and different regions, and that sloops, brigs and galleys would remain useful well into the game despite the introduction of much larger, powerful ships. The deep oceans should be a dangerous place for ANY ship, where freak weather events can damage or even sink the hardiest of ships, making globe-spanning travel an inherently risky business.

    10. More options to directly influence politics in other regions without resorting to military power. Right now only gold or the sale of regions and tech can sway foreign nations, I would like to see character units called "diplomats" that can be sent to foreign lands to rub shoulders with the elites and rabble alike, promoting good will towards my nation, or even ill will towards a third party! Create something called "diplomatic capital" that grows depending on your number of diplomats, how good they are, how much money you spend on relations with the nation etc, that can then be spent to get that nation to do what you want, from severing alliances with others, increasing civil unrest and hastening revolutions, or prevent or at least delay them coming into one of your conflicts on the wrong side! Even your protectorates should be open to this kind of manipulation, with the added possibility of influencing politics in the protectorate to the point where they agree to join your nation in a union(either a personal union with the monarch, or as federal states of your Republic). I don't want to have to invade my protectorates to gain access to their resources or buildings, and as perverse as it may sound, I´d like to take a stab at winning a game of E:TW without firing a single shot!

  7. #27
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Corvid View Post
    10 points I´d like to see as part of Empire: Total War 2
    Welcome to the Total War Center Corvid. Your first post is absolutely splendid.
    I have no doubt that the community will eminently gain from your membership.
    In fact You and DeValiere should counsel Creative Assembly.

  8. #28

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taraphir View Post
    Welcome to the Total War Center Corvid. Your first post is absolutely splendid.
    I have no doubt that the community will eminently gain from your membership.
    In fact You and DeValiere should counsel Creative Assembly.
    Thank you. No doubt in a few hours I´ll think of 10 more points

    I really love this game, buggy as it is. In fact it's the kind of game I´ve been waiting for my entire life and I hope I´ll be able to see E:TW2 sooner rather than later.

    One more bonus point that would go a long way towards distinguishing one line infantry unit from another. Each freshly-raised regiment should have a few(I´m thinking three is a good number) "slots" where you can purchase attachments for the unit(when researched with the appropriate tech of course). A few ideas for attachments:

    1. Experienced sergeants

    The unit may be green, but it's NCO's are old hands at war, and their experience allows for greater staying power in combat as they keep the rookies in line, and more rapid accumulation of experience as the NCO's impart their wisdom.

    2. Integrated artillery

    The unit has a cannon permanently assigned to it, crewed by men from the unit. The cannon slows them down on the advance(unless detached as the infantry goes forward) as the cannon has to be pushed by hand across the battlefield. Idea for formations intended for defensive duties and when you need just a bit of extra firepower(such as in colonial expeditionary forces?)

    3. Integrated marksmen

    A small unit of riflemen that moves and fights with the main unit, can be sent forward a bit or placed at the flanks according to taste. 10-15 men perhaps?

    4. Integrated grenadiers

    The forerunner to the fielding of whole regiments of grenadiers. Good for both defense and offense.
    Such "tricked-out" regiments would of course be more expensive to upkeep, but allow for the creation of specialist formation for special missions.

  9. #29

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?


    One more bonus point that would go a long way towards distinguishing one line infantry unit from another. Each freshly-raised regiment should have a few(I´m thinking three is a good number) "slots" where you can purchase attachments for the unit(when researched with the appropriate tech of course). A few ideas for attachments:

    1. Experienced sergeants

    The unit may be green, but it's NCO's are old hands at war, and their experience allows for greater staying power in combat as they keep the rookies in line, and more rapid accumulation of experience as the NCO's impart their wisdom.

    2. Integrated artillery

    The unit has a cannon permanently assigned to it, crewed by men from the unit. The cannon slows them down on the advance(unless detached as the infantry goes forward) as the cannon has to be pushed by hand across the battlefield. Idea for formations intended for defensive duties and when you need just a bit of extra firepower(such as in colonial expeditionary forces?)

    3. Integrated marksmen

    A small unit of riflemen that moves and fights with the main unit, can be sent forward a bit or placed at the flanks according to taste. 10-15 men perhaps?

    4. Integrated grenadiers

    The forerunner to the fielding of whole regiments of grenadiers. Good for both defense and offense.
    Such "tricked-out" regiments would of course be more expensive to upkeep, but allow for the creation of specialist formation for special missions.
    That, and the last ten, actually sound like really good ideas. I would really love to see those concepts in the next few games.
    The Greeks came up with the saying, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth". But the Greeks also built the Trojan Horse. Coincidence? I think not...

  10. #30

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Actually, I have my own to offer. I think that the game should more accurately reflect the economics of a country. I frequently get tired when by 1750, I have over 5 million marks in the Prussian treasury and can't even find things to do with it. That shouldn't happen. I think that when a government earns enough money, inflation should start to kick in and make things a little more expensive. But then there is a sort of worldwide exchange rate for every government's coin, so that you could do something interesting like hire cheaper foreign mercenaries or have cheap foreign labor.

    This is mostly speculation, but I really do think that they should revamp the economic system in the games.
    The Greeks came up with the saying, "don't look a gift horse in the mouth". But the Greeks also built the Trojan Horse. Coincidence? I think not...

  11. #31
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    There is one other thing I would like to see implemented into Empire Total War.
    Melee attack strength should be devided in two categories:

    I. Melee Attack against Infantry
    II. Melee Attack against Cavalry

    Such a division would open many opportunities
    Last edited by Taraphir; March 19, 2012 at 01:17 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehmuffin19 View Post
    Actually, I have my own to offer. I think that the game should more accurately reflect the economics of a country. I frequently get tired when by 1750, I have over 5 million marks in the Prussian treasury and can't even find things to do with it. That shouldn't happen. I think that when a government earns enough money, inflation should start to kick in and make things a little more expensive. But then there is a sort of worldwide exchange rate for every government's coin, so that you could do something interesting like hire cheaper foreign mercenaries or have cheap foreign labor.

    This is mostly speculation, but I really do think that they should revamp the economic system in the games.
    This is exactly why I think states should be able to go into debt during wartime. Raising taxes to try to pay for current wars should result in a LOT more dissatisfaction than it currently does in the game, and war-weariness should also a factor - if wars drag on for a long time(particularly if there are no glorious victories), then negative modifiers start accumulating in the home regions simply due to the fact that people don't like being at war for long periods of time(generally).

    If you try to wage war on the cheap(using only current revenue), your opponent, even with a weaker economy and a smaller recruiting base will be able to match you in man and firepower by going into debt. So it´ll be a race to the bottom really with genuine trade-offs. Will you borrow heavily and raise large armies so that you can crush the enemy quickly and gain territories in a few years of campaigning? Or will you restrain yourself and set more modest goals(peace with honor, the handing over of smaller colonial posession, trade concession etc)?

    Either way, I feel like the current game just doesn't know how to handle peacetime. The economy of E:TW seems to operate off the assumption that you will constantly be at war with someone, so when you aren't, your coffers quickly swell with far more money than you can spend on upgrades etc. A decade of peace 20-30 years into the game gives you a surplus large enough to weather any and all upkeep costs, even if you then raise a HUGE army that nobody can stand against. Having most of that money sucked away paying down the principal(with interest of course) on debts incurred by previous wars would not only be more realistic from a historical perspective, but also solve a real in-game problem of having way too much money by refraining from constant warfare.

  13. #33

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taraphir View Post
    There is one other thing I would like to see implemented into Empire Total War.
    Melee attack strength should be devided in two categories:

    I. Melee Attack against Infantry
    II. Melee Attack Aigainst Cavalry

    Such a division would open many opportunities

    Excellent idea!

  14. #34

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    One more point(I would add it to my previous post but I can't find the edit button!): The game should be 4 turns per year - Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter. Each season would have it's own modifiers for combat, with winter increasing attrition in colder climates, summer and spring are best for active campaigning, and autumn decreases movement rates of armies as they get bogged down in mud, esp. if you don't have cobbled roads. In more southernly climes this would turn around - you'd rather launch an offensive in India in the winter and stay garrisoned over the intensely hot summer months.

    This would further bring out the distinctiveness of specialist units like Cossacks, Sepoys, Hakkipelittaa etc and allow Russia the luxury to launch winter offensives against a stronger foe etc.

  15. #35
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    The tech tree must offer some real choices. If for instance the player decides to research a certain branch an alternative one should become inaccessible.

  16. #36
    Laetus
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    I would love scripted rebellions, lets say Ireland, in the late 18th century there was extreme nationalism, (the United Irishmen etc.) Causing the act of union and such.
    I would like an event around 1780-1800 to have a rebel group emerge in Ireland and spread to Scotland, creating a good bit of unrest in England hopefully making the game more challenging, same goes for the United states and other emegrent states.

  17. #37

    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Taraphir View Post
    The tech tree must offer some real choices. If for instance the player decides to research a certain branch an alternative one should become inaccessible.
    That is a little bit hard to implement IMO and not very historical. That kind of thing should probably be reserved for the philosophical tree. I´m having a hard time imagining how this could work.

    On the military side of things perhaps there could be techs that boost one branch of the armed forces while degrading the others, reflecting how an entrenched military culture looks down on the other branches and holds back their development and funding. Then you would have to choose which branches are relatively strong and your nation is famous for, and which are backwards and underdeveloped. Appropriate bonuses and penalties would apply to recruitment and performance in battle both.

    So if you pick the "cavalry doctrine", your military establishment, practitioners and theorists alike worship the cavalry, seeing it as the epitome of military might, tons of books are published expounding on the various ways in which it can be employed etc, while your infantry and artillery branches are looked down upon as less illustrious.

    So this way you could pick and choose your strong suits and weak suits, or just stay away from the choices altogether for a more balanced outlook and a more well-rounded army. Perhaps there should be a choice to "un-research" techs in this doctrinal research tree, reflecting reform and changes in outlook?

  18. #38
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    I would also like to see the implementation of coastal waters with low soundings into Empire Total War.
    Naval warfare in such areas should include penalties for bigger and bonuses for smaller vessels.
    Last edited by Taraphir; March 20, 2012 at 02:03 PM.

  19. #39
    DeValiere's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Absolutely rotten with the flu right now but awesome ideas coming through here... Huzzah!

    Cough, splutter...!
    Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out...and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel. ..And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man"-- with his mouth.
    Mark Twain - What Is Man?

  20. #40
    Taraphir's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: My Perfect Empire TW would be...?

    Quote Originally Posted by DeValiere View Post
    Absolutely rotten with the flu right now but awesome ideas coming through here... Huzzah!

    Cough, splutter...!
    Get well soon DeValiere!

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