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Thread: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW.

  1. #1141

    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Quote Originally Posted by uriyaca View Post
    how many subscribers do you have? seems like you became the Westeros advertiser online . I await to see your Targaryen FaB campaign. Btw, I really think it would be boring to play as Stark or Stannis. What can you do as Stannis, take Tarth and fight the Targ forces and then what? attack your king? attack your brother? attack Arryn? (which I believe has high precentage of supporting Robert) And what in the world would you do with Stark? all you can do is destroy Bolton. Nothing else you can really do
    I currently have 593 Subscribers and i already call my channel "The Unofficial Hub of Westeros: Total War". At least 90% of the westeros video's on youtube are mine, so i think it's a fair claim.

    I'm currently holding back recording the Fire&Blood Sub-Mod until Badger gets around to fixing all the CTD errors that appear to plague the latest version of the Sub-Mod. I'll be doing Targaryen first, Stark second and Stannis third. I disagree about Stark being boring, you can get Robb to rally the banners and march South to aid his farther while King Robert is alive, if he is to fall... the Starks fall back north and claim kingship or swear themselves to Stannis seeing as he has the strongest claim. Not to mention if the Boltons turn on Stark while your in The South fighting the Targaryens you'll have a hole other war on your hands, being forced to return North... who knows what could happen in The South while your gone. Stannis is another matter, unless King Robert die's there is not much to be done with him, i think recording haft way into the game and starting just as the Targaryens have killed Robert... and then swooping in and claiming The Iron Throne is the way to go... otherwise i'll be sitting at Dragonstone for the first 5 parts of the series just waiting for Robert to die.

  2. #1142
    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    regarding at which turn u achieve victory ,for me is turn 80-90 at vh vh and play all the serious battles,then the game looses interest/goals/targets
    Most Chivalrous commander 2020-2021

  3. #1143
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Well, here are my suggestions about ingame events. Some of them - I think I have too much to post them all

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    First of all, what I like in Martin's books is his vision of world order, when a small event or decision may radically change the course of history. Story of Robb and Jeyne Westerling is a good example. It could be realised in game, but it needs to be scripted in details, this event will repeat every time you restart the game and i think it's too strait and not so interesting when you know it in advance.

    I have another example, that I like more - reaction of dornishmen on Doran's inaction after Oberin's death. I think it's an interesting idea to realise a reaction of simple folks to the actions of the ruler - by the level of loyality. Here's an ingame example - you play for Martells.

    • If you declare a war to Stormkings of Gardeners - loyality grows at 50-70%, because dornishmen has tensions with them and support their ruler's decision.
    • If you declare a war to Stark/Arryn/Lannister/Hoare/Mudd/Bolton loyality decreases at 70-80% or even 100% because people have no reason to die at such war: "The simple folks are dying while you high lords play your game of thrones".
    • If you declare a war to Yronwood in provinces with small garrison in a castle (2-3 units for example) appears Yronwood's armies - "Some lords decided to join the enemy in a coming struggle and raised his banner".

    This should make a decision to start the war much more deliberate and having a multi-effects. The confirmation message about the outbreak of war may have the form of an advice - "people are more likely support your decision,my lord/people are unlikely to follow you into battle/your enemy may have secret accomplice who can act on his side" to make a tip to player. Such conditions could be made for every faction.

    Another interesting feature that could be realised is "rumors". It's messages about a possibility of enemy invasion, which could be truly or false. Example - you play for Lannister, and get a message "My lord, our scouts and seamen saw the ships of ironborn near our shores. People say they going to start a new attack on our coastal settlements. Maybe we should prepare to meet them with a sword? "

    It should be 2 variant of script - in one it's only a message without real attack, in another the enemy army invades after 1-2 turns. So the player doesn't know if the rumor truly or not, whether to allocate troops to repel the promised attack or not. It could be an essential factor, if you already engaged in a war on the continent with anoter faction. Such conditions could be made for every faction. Attackers also may be rebel - pirates of Lys, pack of wildlings or runaway from Nights Watch at North or mounted clans in Arryn Walley.

    One more event is "small accident with great consequences". The War of 5 kings began when lady Stark captured Tyrion. So, there may be some small conflicts such as drunken brawl in a tavern or accident at tournament when a noble lord from other faction is wounded or killed, or a daughter of a noble lord was dishonored . And this faction offers derogatory or impossible conditions to deal with the accident (give a region critical to your victory and a very big payment).

    • If you accept them - loyality of your people dramatically falls - 100% for example.
    • If you reject - it's a war with that faction.


    Another variant of this script - when your heir wounded one of your nobles in a drunken brawl or at tournament, or dishonored a daughter of a noble lord. The conditions are the same - very big payment. If you refuse - his region becomes rebel.

    This events should be very rare, to save the plausible course of events in life. I think this may add variety to the game and bring it closer to the spirit of Martin's books. I also think that at least some of this ideas could be realised by skilled scripter. Tnx for reading again. With best regards - Bitterhowl

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  4. #1144
    zburanuki's Avatar Ducenarius
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    very intresting suggestions, some of them reminds me of Third Age.

  5. #1145

    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I second that, very interesting... I'm not sure how much of it could be implemented, but never the less some nice ideas.

  6. #1146
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Some very nice ideas indeed

  7. #1147
    Kiliç Alì's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Quote Originally Posted by bitterhowl View Post
    Well, here are my suggestions about ingame events. Some of them - I think I have too much to post them all

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    First of all, what I like in Martin's books is his vision of world order, when a small event or decision may radically change the course of history. Story of Robb and Jeyne Westerling is a good example. It could be realised in game, but it needs to be scripted in details, this event will repeat every time you restart the game and i think it's too strait and not so interesting when you know it in advance.

    I have another example, that I like more - reaction of dornishmen on Doran's inaction after Oberin's death. I think it's an interesting idea to realise a reaction of simple folks to the actions of the ruler - by the level of loyality. Here's an ingame example - you play for Martells.

    • If you declare a war to Stormkings of Gardeners - loyality grows at 50-70%, because dornishmen has tensions with them and support their ruler's decision.
    • If you declare a war to Stark/Arryn/Lannister/Hoare/Mudd/Bolton loyality decreases at 70-80% or even 100% because people have no reason to die at such war: "The simple folks are dying while you high lords play your game of thrones".
    • If you declare a war to Yronwood in provinces with small garrison in a castle (2-3 units for example) appears Yronwood's armies - "Some lords decided to join the enemy in a coming struggle and raised his banner".

    This should make a decision to start the war much more deliberate and having a multi-effects. The confirmation message about the outbreak of war may have the form of an advice - "people are more likely support your decision,my lord/people are unlikely to follow you into battle/your enemy may have secret accomplice who can act on his side" to make a tip to player. Such conditions could be made for every faction.

    Another interesting feature that could be realised is "rumors". It's messages about a possibility of enemy invasion, which could be truly or false. Example - you play for Lannister, and get a message "My lord, our scouts and seamen saw the ships of ironborn near our shores. People say they going to start a new attack on our coastal settlements. Maybe we should prepare to meet them with a sword? "

    It should be 2 variant of script - in one it's only a message without real attack, in another the enemy army invades after 1-2 turns. So the player doesn't know if the rumor truly or not, whether to allocate troops to repel the promised attack or not. It could be an essential factor, if you already engaged in a war on the continent with anoter faction. Such conditions could be made for every faction. Attackers also may be rebel - pirates of Lys, pack of wildlings or runaway from Nights Watch at North or mounted clans in Arryn Walley.

    One more event is "small accident with great consequences". The War of 5 kings began when lady Stark captured Tyrion. So, there may be some small conflicts such as drunken brawl in a tavern or accident at tournament when a noble lord from other faction is wounded or killed, or a daughter of a noble lord was dishonored . And this faction offers derogatory or impossible conditions to deal with the accident (give a region critical to your victory and a very big payment).

    • If you accept them - loyality of your people dramatically falls - 100% for example.
    • If you reject - it's a war with that faction.


    Another variant of this script - when your heir wounded one of your nobles in a drunken brawl or at tournament, or dishonored a daughter of a noble lord. The conditions are the same - very big payment. If you refuse - his region becomes rebel.

    This events should be very rare, to save the plausible course of events in life. I think this may add variety to the game and bring it closer to the spirit of Martin's books. I also think that at least some of this ideas could be realised by skilled scripter. Tnx for reading again. With best regards - Bitterhowl
    There is actually some good ideas here, also I have in mind some other concept.

    Instead of the "people's Loyalty" use a "Leader's Authority" system, wich is a counter called for all human Players. And, we give it a value (let's say from 0 to 100). This will be visible via yout Faction Leader's trait list (some trait looking like: "min/mid/max Authority").

    This counter, wich resets to 0 when your FL dies, dinamically changes its value, depending:

    • How much time your FL is head of faction (let's say, +1 per turn)
    • Victory/Defeat in battle (+/- 5)
    • Victory/Defeat in siege (+/- 10, cumulative with the one above)
    • Treasury (+ 5 if you have more than 1.000, + 10 if you have more than 5.000, + 15 if you have more than 10.000, - 5 if you're broken)
    • Events as suggested, with different outkeeps
    • Dread/Chivalry of your Leader, + 5 if he has more than 6 Chivalry/Dread
    • Faction's relative military strength, + 5 if you are top 2 strong faction, -5 if you are among the last 2
    • Declaring a war/being attacked, with a -/+ 20 boost each (so you will not be tempted to attack multiple factions in a row)
    • Being at war with one faction (-1 per turn, cumulative in case of multiple wars)
    • Anything else we think fitting, just not comes in my mind now

    Now, we can have a value of the relative "power" of a certain faction Leader, and this can be linked with:

    • How much your Allies/Enemies like/hate you
    • The general Loyalty of your Generals and Settlements
    • The number and type of troops you can recruit
    • Further traits, ancs or event chains
    • The possibility of "block" some player actions (like, attacking a neutral faction) if the FL's Authority does not reach a certain treshold

    This summed with other regional variables (like, the region religion, err... support) can give the player an intricate system. Its main point is that it split the "political" aspect of Westeros in 2:



    The people, of wich no westerosi leader really cared (nobody was preoccupied to justify a war, remember what happened when Tywyn sent his dog to plunder the Riverlands: Westeros is not USA)


    The Leader, whoose action and personality can turn the tide of a war.


    And of course, if enabled, it would make hotseats a nightmare even for experienced players (at least I hope). Toughts, ideas, rants?

    Member of the Imperial House of Hader, proud client of The only and sole Ferrit

  8. #1148
    ButtSwag's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I don't fully understand that system, but one thing I notices was the -1 for being at war per turn. So if your FL is like a Ned Stark, Loved by eveyone, eventually will they all hate him for just being at war? Because I've found that it is really hard to make peace, and I don't think Ned's bannermen (for example) would dislike him because they are at war, I imagine them sticking by him. (The Greatjon pops to mind )

  9. #1149
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Icon3 Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Here I posted my suggestions about victory conditions for Westeros TW 2 years ago )) Maybe it could interest you too.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...78#post9178578

    Also one more note about unit roster and faction gamestyle. I think that armies of factions shouldn't be accurately balanced, our game is not a cybersport dicsipline as Warcraft 3 or Dawn of war. It's more realistic that one faction is stronger than another, or have more powerfull units in roster. This may be offset by other features of the army. For example - Gardeners or Stormkings could become "chivalric" factions, as France at period of Hundred Years war. Proud and arrogant knights who despise commoners militia and mercenaries - there's no cooperation between them on a battlefield, and finally you got an Agincourt battle.
    So we make their infantry less trained and armoured and having very poor morale. Such roster features could be managed for each faction.

    Spoiler for suggestion about win conditions and leader's authority conception by Kilic Ali
    I like his conception very much and I'd like to add my 5 cent )
    I think it's possible to make a relation between leader's authority and progress in realisation of win conditions.

    Example - playing for Martell, if Yronwood faction is alive at 15-20 turn (discussiable number) - you get a penalty. If you not at war with Stormkings at 30-th turn = penalty. If Oldtown (i guess this city was included to win conditions in your submod) didn't captured at 60-th = penalty. All the penalties are supported by messages in the begining of the turn. All the scripts are rechecked every 5-10 turns with cumulative effect.
    I think this should be added for better reflection of political system, as Kilic told about it - victory conditions is a goal for a whole faction - not only a leader and nobles, but simple folks too, who interest to destroy Yronwood and Stormkings (for Martell faction) because of tensions between them.

    The amount of penalty may vary form one faction to another and between different goals (maybe it's too complicated, of course ) -

    • Ironborn people are more warlike, than, for example, Arryn. So inaction of ironborn leader will cause more discontentment
    • Destroying of Yronwood is more necessery to Martell nobles, and war with Stormkings receives support the common people too.
    • Tensions between Stark and Bolton people are much more than between Stark and ironborn.

    And two small ideas about events
    1-2 turns after a major battle will be realistic the appearance of 4-5 unit stack of a specific unit - "military scum", the deserters and parts of broken units, who decided to become bandits. This unit should have a uniqe model ( damn, i guess i wrote about unique units in WTW ) medium battle skills and trait no_retreat, because they're rejects who have no way back.

    Second idea (and the last I think) - a proposal of a "general battle" from the enemy leader/best general. "General battle" - a way to end the conflict in one major battle in field. Napoleon I wanted to end the 1812 Year War in such one general battle, which Battle at Borodino become.

    If player agrees this proposal the stack of enemy general improves by adding elite units in it, and you get a mission to kill that personage at 5-10 turns. Effects are discussable. If you refuse "-" to authority, bad traits and penalty to loyality.

    In case of victory in this battle your leader/general get good traits, + to authority, and probably (if it's realisable) cease fire with enemy faction and reparations or even given of 1-2 regions. In case of loose the battle - money penalty, morale penalty, loss of 1-2 provinces.

    I hope not too tired you with my writings, guys You know' it's a trying to make this mod better. Best regards, bitterhowl.
    Last edited by bitterhowl; February 10, 2013 at 03:27 AM. Reason: new suggestions ))

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  10. #1150
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I like your ideas Kilic! It would make the submod very unique indeed.

  11. #1151
    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I did a format in my pc and now need some help intalling the game again....

    1.I have downloaded from the Strategicinformer the game

    but now must install the ...?

    2.Patch from post 1?

    and then...

    3.the LINK also?

    ..or just need to install the patch?

    i am bit confussed
    Most Chivalrous commander 2020-2021

  12. #1152
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    The link and the patch are the same.

  13. #1153
    dannyalex's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Dux View Post
    The link and the patch are the same.



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  14. #1154
    Kiliç Alì's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    @biterhowl, the ideas are nice, but the"major battle" one is impossible

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  15. #1155
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Well, most of all I hope to see your "Leader Authority" conception in game This will be pretty enough.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  16. #1156

    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    when i start a new campaign, it says "located unspecified error and must close" Can anyone help? can figure it out , want to play this mod a lot

  17. #1157
    Bcman's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I think that is a Medival 2 total war problem.
    Bye day the banished sun circles the earth like a grieving mother with a lamp- The Road

  18. #1158
    Dux's Avatar Warden of Westeros
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    Quote Originally Posted by Vladimir92 View Post
    when i start a new campaign, it says "located unspecified error and must close" Can anyone help? can figure it out , want to play this mod a lot
    Try deleting the string files in KingofRiverandHills/data/text.

    If that does not work then I suggest a reinstal.

  19. #1159
    bitterhowl's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    One more small idea. It's about game atmosphere.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    I suggest to add messages when AI faction captures some provinces - not only critical for winconditions for greater immersion in the atmosphere of Westeros. This messages shouldn't be too frequent of course. They may give news to player about progress of AI faction, or say about unprecedented events - for example Martells captured Bittrebridge, for Westeros univerese it is a big surprise. So: "They say that Martell army has captured the Bitterbridge castle. How far are they going to go if this news is true?" Such event messages could be made for every faction, 2-3 for each. The message should reflect the characteristics of each faction, for this it is added properly. For example: ''The Lannisport has fallen to ironborn. It's said they killed all the men, and it's said that it was an easy fate. The invaders were feasting all night on the streets, gathering the iron price, raping each survivor woman, young and old. And with the first light most of them was given to Drowned God".

    Also it's possible to make such messages for capturing famous castles and cities.

    My sister, do you still recall the blue Hasan and Khalkhin-Gol?
    Russian warship is winning. Proofs needed? Go find yourself!

  20. #1160
    ButtSwag's Avatar Decanus
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    Default Re: [Submod] The King of Rivers and Hills. A complete overhaul of Westeros TW. NEW PATCH RELEASED!

    I actually think that is an awesome idea. If every 3 or 4 turns there was a message saying who captured what, and how (sack, loot, peaceful) it would be pretty cool.

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