Persian Invasion Complete Edition Released

[Hopit]

I agree that they probably use the both but mostly underarm .
And don't forget those paintings are made by ARTIST'S

Cause it has a great potential , and it's a shame to be wasted .

that lived in that age
and underarm would just be stupid when you remember the size of the shield and the formation...

[atheniandp]

It is possible that they used the underarm technique. If you look closely at the hydria, it seems as though the hoplites are holding their dory with their hand in the same position as if it was underarm, but over their shoulder. You can tell by what appears to be a thumb on the hoplite on the left and the lack of a thumb on the hoplite on the right. That makes for a very awkward position. Maybe that's how they shifted to close range combat? By twisting their arm, holding the spear underarm, over their shoulders to create an effect similar to overarm?


And about the hydra drawings being an inaccurate representation... sorry that's absolutely not true. You do realize how much of our historical knowledge depends on these artifacts?


EDIT: comrade_general, I'm not exactly sure what you guys are debating about, but I think leaving the mod open for submods is a good thing! It can only attract even more attention and interest from others. You shouldn't take it as an insult when someone mods your work-- I personally think it's the best form of flattery, because someone is actually willing to spend the time and analyze what else can be done or changed to make it as appealing as possible for a variety of people.

[comrade_general]

EDIT: comrade_general, I'm not exactly sure what you guys are debating about, but I think leaving the mod open for submods is a good thing! It can only attract even more attention and interest from others. You shouldn't take it as an insult when someone mods your work-- I personally think it's the best form of flattery, because someone is actually willing to spend the time and analyze what else can be done or changed to make it as appealing as possible for a variety of people.

I am just annoyed at Master_Mind acting like PI is so horribly flawed and incomplete that it needs major work done to it.

PI is done. End o' story.

[Spartan198]

I'd hoped you'd eventually revisit this. PI does indeed have a lot of untapped potential.

[atheniandp]

People are ungrateful snobs, what can you do. The best thing, I think, is to hand it over to them and challenge them to make something they like.

[comrade_general]

Or rather encourage them to start their own project.

[The Despondent Mind]

that lived in that age
and underarm would just be stupid when you remember the size of the shield and the formation...

Ok then all Hollywood movies are perfectly legit


Underarm seems more logical and practical to me in most of situations .
And after all the theory is suggested by someone who actually tried to recreate "most " of those situations .

People are ungrateful snobs, what can you do. The best thing, I think, is to hand it over to them and challenge them to make something they like.

I mean't in the scenario where someone else wants to help , why not "support " him .
But dang we can at least have sub mods i guess .

I am just annoyed at Master_Mind acting like PI is so horribly flawed and incomplete that it needs major work done to it.

I'm sorry but i didn't wanted to say that .

[Spike]

@Master Mind: you should always remember that creating a mod is definitely not easy thing, and also, the overarm spears are historically proven for hoplites

if you're not statisfied, why not learn to model and reskin yourself so you can make a submod out of it? or a valuable patch? like what Lanjane do

asking comrade general to change something without being able to give valuable input yourself is, according to Roman diplomat in RTW "Brandying empty words and worthless talks"

[ithinkitsdead]

I have downloaded this mod, and it is exactly what I was looking for. +rep to you, comrade!

That being said, I have run into an odd problem.
I have just started a campaign as Athens, and each time I end my turn, the game hard CTD's.
I toggle fow'd to see what was happening, and every time the Persian's start their turn, that is when the game proceeds to crash.
Any known issues, or is it just a hiccup?

[comrade_general]

It sounds like a hiccup. Have you run campaign_map_reset.bat? Do that, then try another faction before loading your Athens campaign.

[ithinkitsdead]

What does that campaign_map_resest.bat do, exactly?
And, is it needed before running a campaign?

[comrade_general]

It just deletes the map.rwm's from both campaign folders. It probably won't help, but it wouldn't hurt to try.

[ithinkitsdead]

Ah. Well, I have deleted the .rwm's (do after every alteration of the game).
I will see what happens.
Seems to happen every time Persia rolls around one way or another at some point in the game.
Started a new one as Elis to see if that might change, and it crashed at 477BC instead of 487BC.

[The Despondent Mind]

@Master Mind: the overarm spears are historically proven for hoplites

Damn VV needs a thread about hoplites .

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...9#post11179619

[ithinkitsdead]

@Master_Mind - While you have a valid point in stating that hoplites would have used the underarm method during combat, the pursuit of such a point is moot. Anyone who has been involved in combat, actual or simulated, is well aware of the fact that you will rarely have circumstances that allow you to utilize your training to a T. It is an incompetent thought to believe that a soldier would always utilize a single method of attack while in mortal combat (what a pun) with another human being.
All the training that a soldier receives is to show him how to take those methods and tools, and adapt them to the situation at hand.
Hoplites did not go into battle simply utilizing their spear. They had their sword (the Xiphos, typically), a knife, and the brass butt on the spear. Should the spear snap, and the leaf-shaped spearhead be lost, the spear would become a shorter, more versatile weapon, or be discarded. A 5-6 foot spear will be unwieldly in close combat, and may very well have been discarded for the Greek soldiers sword or knife.
I suggest you take the advice that has already been given to you and find a spear-like object (a light metal rod, or good sized branch, mayhaps) to get a feel for how a spear might feel when utilized during vigorous activity. After you have stabbed that overhand with the same force that you believe would be needed to pierce a well armoured foe, imagine how strange it would be to attempt that same activity with 1-2 feet of space behind you, but doing it underhand. You will feel the difference.

Again, the only thing available to the hoplites (and any soldier that you can think of in the classical world) was their lethal knowledge base, and the will to win. Anyone in a life or death situation will swing, stab, bash and hack in any way possible to disable and dispatch their opponent. Heck! The toe-stomp was a move utilized by the hoplites in almost every battle. Always the left foot forward, with their "boots" (soldiers sandals of the age) being lined with metal tacks, similar to modern day cleats.
So, over or under-hand combat is viable, but they were technically trained to utilize the former as opposed to the latter.

[The Despondent Mind]

@Master_Mind - While you have a valid point in stating that hoplites would have used the underarm method during combat, the pursuit of such a point is moot. Anyone who has been involved in combat, actual or simulated, is well aware of the fact that you will rarely have circumstances that allow you to utilize your training to a T. It is an incompetent thought to believe that a soldier would always utilize a single method of attack while in mortal combat (what a pun) with another human being.
All the training that a soldier receives is to show him how to take those methods and tools, and adapt them to the situation at hand.
Hoplites did not go into battle simply utilizing their spear. They had their sword (the Xiphos, typically), a knife, and the brass butt on the spear. Should the spear snap, and the leaf-shaped spearhead be lost, the spear would become a shorter, more versatile weapon, or be discarded. A 5-6 foot spear will be unwieldly in close combat, and may very well have been discarded for the Greek soldiers sword or knife.
I suggest you take the advice that has already been given to you and find a spear-like object (a light metal rod, or good sized branch, mayhaps) to get a feel for how a spear might feel when utilized during vigorous activity. After you have stabbed that overhand with the same force that you believe would be needed to pierce a well armoured foe, imagine how strange it would be to attempt that same activity with 1-2 feet of space behind you, but doing it underhand. You will feel the difference.

Again, the only thing available to the hoplites (and any soldier that you can think of in the classical world) was their lethal knowledge base, and the will to win. Anyone in a life or death situation will swing, stab, bash and hack in any way possible to disable and dispatch their opponent. Heck! The toe-stomp was a move utilized by the hoplites in almost every battle. Always the left foot forward, with their "boots" (soldiers sandals of the age) being lined with metal tacks, similar to modern day cleats.
So, over or under-hand combat is viable, but they were technically trained to utilize the former as opposed to the latter.

I agree with you . Completely .
I just suggested the "usual " method , and I am annoyed by most of mods using the overarm method because it looks more "cool " .

[comrade_general]

I agree with you . Completely .
I just suggest the "usual " method , and I am annoyed by most of mods using the overarm method because it looks more "cool " .

You didn't even understand ithinkitsdead's words, because you just contradicted yourself. And I'd like you to show me exactly when and where I said I used the overarm animation because it "looks more cool", oh that's right - I didn't! Please move yourself to the argument thread you started.

[The Despondent Mind]

You didn't even understand ithinkitsdead's words, because you just contradicted yourself. And I'd like you to show me exactly when and where I said I used the overarm animation because it "looks more cool", oh that's right - I didn't! Please move yourself to the argument thread you started.

I meant other mods in general not you directly .

Now please

[comrade_general]

I always advocate peace.

[ithinkitsdead]

Peace?
Peace?!




Peace is for the weak.

I kid.

@comrade_general: As I have looked over the game files, I noticed that your EDB costs and unit costs are a little on the affordable side. Makes for an interesting bit of gameplay if the largest faction in the game gets their business in order.