Zosimus back in print!

[Valentinian Victor]

I have recently learnt that the Ridley translation of Zosimus is back in print (and I've had my order confirmed!). It can be obtained only from this link- http://home.vicnet.net.au/~byzaus/byzaust/

[Renatus]

That's good to know. The link in your similar post on RAT does not work, although the one above (which seems the same to me) does. I have posted on RAT a means of achieving the same result.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

No Freakign way!

Also, I have a friend who I can have turn it into an e-book or pdf if you guys want.

[Renatus]

Sounds like a blatant breach of copyright to me!

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Well, maybe. I'll see what he says to it.

[legio_XX]

Sounds like a blatant breach of copyright to me!

Im so excited I hope its on amazon so I can put it on my phone!

[Valentinian Victor]

This translation of Zosimus is only available in print form, what they appear to do is wait until there is enough demand, guaged by how many requests they receive for the book, then print off a batch of 500 copies.

It would be not only a breach of copyright but also a criminal act if someone were to turn the book into a PDF or e-book without the express permission of the publisher. I think that if it could be proved that there are those on this site who are involved in such activities then it would be the duty of the moderator to report said persons to the relevant authorities and also permanently ban them from the site.

[Diocle]

Yes, Valentinian Victor, it would be a criminal action! Because we are in a miserable and stupid world!!

But if the publishers would be less stupid and retrograde and if they would use more and in a better way the modern technology, instead of stupidly waiting to receive I do not know how many stupid requests and then print only 500 miserable & stupid copies of an important book like Zosimus, doing a total stupid and silly thing, they (the stupid editors) could produce an intelligent and modern and good e-book, as says MMFA, this would be an intelligent action, and the work of Zosimus could be spread on a greater public than in the miserable and stupid old form of the 500 paper copies!!

But the human misery and stupidity have no limits!

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Well he takes the original texts, not someone else's publishing of a translation, and turns them into ebooks. My mistake.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

Assuming the Ridley Translation was prior to 1923 it's legal to put it up on the intertubez.

[Valentinian Victor]

Yes, Valentinian Victor, it would be a criminal action! Because we are in a miserable and stupid world!!

But if the publishers would be less stupid and retrograde and if they would use more and in a better way the modern technology, instead of stupidly waiting to receive I do not know how many stupid requests and then print only 500 miserable & stupid copies of an important book like Zosimus, doing a total stupid and silly thing, they (the stupid editors) could produce an intelligent and modern and good e-book, as says MMFA, this would be an intelligent action, and the work of Zosimus could be spread on a greater public than in the miserable and stupid old form of the 500 paper copies!!

But the human misery and stupidity have no limits!

If you were an author you would not welcome e-book versions of your published work as e-books generate very little income for the author, and they can be copied much easier and therefore the author is even less likely to receive any royalties. I personally prefer printed books as I can put markers in them, highlight specific passages, and scatter them around the floor where I am working so I can lay hands on them all at once. Which you cannot do with an e-book collection!!!

[Diocle]

But you can always print as you like a PDF file! and belive me, better than many today editions taht are very very poor!

About the economy of the operation: Well, I do not know exactly but 500 copies are really a very small operation and I do not think that the income for the translator/s (not the author, the author is Zosimus of Pentapolis! do not forget!) will be much more than that of a better spread PDF/e-book!

I have Zosimus from something like five or six years (Rizzoli edition with Greek text) then the print of the book was suspended now it has reappeared! All this is simply a crazy thing!

If someone want a really good paper edition, well no problem! But it is madness waiting for only 500 copies (In Italy the situation is very similar) for years! and then have a not so beautiful paper edition (If you want a really good edition the amount of money would be immensely higher!!! 200 or 300 € as base price!)!!

[Renatus]

Assuming the Ridley Translation was prior to 1923 . . .

It's not.

[Valentinian Victor]

But you can always print as you like a PDF file! and belive me, better than many today editions taht are very very poor!

About the economy of the operation: Well, I do not know exactly but 500 copies are really a very small operation and I do not think that the income for the translator/s (not the author, the author is Zosimus of Pentapolis! do not forget!) will be much more than that of a better spread PDF/e-book!

I have Zosimus from something like five or six years (Rizzoli edition with Greek text) then the print of the book was suspended now it has reappeared! All this is simply a crazy thing!

If someone want a really good paper edition, well no problem! But it is madness waiting for only 500 copies (In Italy the situation is very similar) for years! and then have a not so beautiful paper edition (If you want a really good edition the amount of money would be immensely higher!!! 200 or 300 € as base price!)!!

Diocle, I have some insight into this area that perhaps you do not. When a book is initially printed the publisher has to guage the market for it. Now, in the case of the Harry Potter books you would estimate the print run in perhaps the hundreds of thousands, possibly even millions. Academic works have a much smaller print run as its a specialist market and generally such books are printed probably in runs of less than ten thousand. There is no guarantee that the full ten thousand will sell, and as proof of this I was recently able to obtain a book direct from the publisher and it was printed back in 1992! It would not be worth the current publishers of the Ridley translation of Zosimus to print off more than 500 copies as even with that low number they would struggle to sell them for a couple of years, meaning they have a print run cluttering up space that could be utilised elsewhere. I think its often hard for us to forget that just because we have a passion for the Late Roman period that the rest of the humanity does not also have the same passion. But alas, its a minority interest, specialist topic that will mean that many books once published will rarely, if ever, get a second print run because its just not economically viable to do so.

[Diocle]

These are the reasons because the e-books are a good and modern alternative!

About the paper books, did you see how the quality is low? You pay for bad paper, bad bokbinding and in the end you pay to have a crap edition of a good text! This is not publishing market this is legalized robbery!!

I want paper editions much more expensive but of much better quality for the paper books and many more e-book, which anyway, (belive me) will be the only true future for books with low circulation!

[SeniorBatavianHorse]

It's a thorny area but as an (e)published author myself (see here for my plays), I think we should be respectful of author royalties especially when it will encourage future publishing endeavours in the 'late Roman market'. This both encourages new authors to develop research and new translations (I for one would love to read a modern translation of Procopius rather than the old Loeb one) and also encourage publishers to present new work in this area.

I would also love to purchase the new Zosimus reprint but cannot afford it. I have the old one as a pdf from the web but also a hard-copy facsimile bought from Amazon. If the Australian publishers could produce the new Ridley translation in epub form - it would be cheaper and so affordable (for me at least!). It will also sell more copies perhaps and so generate more income for the translator.

[Valentinian Victor]

It's a thorny area but as an (e)published author myself (see here for my plays), I think we should be respectful of author royalties especially when it will encourage future publishing endeavours in the 'late Roman market'. This both encourages new authors to develop research and new translations (I for one would love to read a modern translation of Procopius rather than the old Loeb one) and also encourage publishers to present new work in this area.

I would also love to purchase the new Zosimus reprint but cannot afford it. I have the old one as a pdf from the web but also a hard-copy facsimile bought from Amazon. If the Australian publishers could produce the new Ridley translation in epub form - it would be cheaper and so affordable (for me at least!). It will also sell more copies perhaps and so generate more income for the translator.

It is a thorny old question and no mistake SBH! I think we also forget how long it takes the poor old translator to actually translate the original text and then get it into something that can be put out in a print form. The translator/author never really gets the financial recompense for their efforts.

[Diocle]

Diocle, I have some insight into this area that perhaps you do not. When a book is initially printed the publisher has to guage the market for it. Now, in the case of the Harry Potter books you would estimate the print run in perhaps the hundreds of thousands, possibly even millions. Academic works have a much smaller print run as its a specialist market and generally such books are printed probably in runs of less than ten thousand. There is no guarantee that the full ten thousand will sell, and as proof of this I was recently able to obtain a book direct from the publisher and it was printed back in 1992! It would not be worth the current publishers of the Ridley translation of Zosimus to print off more than 500 copies as even with that low number they would struggle to sell them for a couple of years, meaning they have a print run cluttering up space that could be utilised elsewhere. I think its often hard for us to forget that just because we have a passion for the Late Roman period that the rest of the humanity does not also have the same passion. But alas, its a minority interest, specialist topic that will mean that many books once published will rarely, if ever, get a second print run because its just not economically viable to do so.

As you said probably I have not your knowledge about the editorial market, but I frequented the University in my town.
Well, tormented by your suggestions I made this little and silly calculation: In Italy (60.000.000 citizens, Britain has probably 62.000.000 of citizens, not sure..) there are more than 80 University, each with a Faculty of Ancient History or Literature ('Storia Antica' or 'Lettere Antiche'), most Public and few Private, every University has a central Library and each University Faculty of the main Universities, has its own Library, and every Institute of each Faculty has its own Library;
Now assuming that each Italian University aquires two copies of the book, we obtain 160 copies only for the main Universities libraries, then if two teachers of every Italian University buy a copy of the book, we reach the figure of 320, now we should add the symbolic and simple figure of only two students for each Italian University who decide to buy the book, at this point we reach 480 copies, and you can clearly see that my calculation is widely underestimated! Now we should add all the theacers, students and interested people who could be interested in our poor Zosimus because there are also in any country good high schools (in Italy 'Licei') and other Cultural Institutions like Public Libraries, private cultural Associations,....et cetera, etc....and we will largely overcome the 500 copies!!!
I think that in Britain the situation could be better, but remaining in the Italian exemple you'll understand clearly that the 500 copies of Zosimus are really an incomprehensible economic operation!! From the commercial point of view and as cultural operation!!!
IMO Better an e-book, if an Editor does not have even the financial resources to cover the potential market!

P.S.: I'm not criticizing the single editor o.c., but the editorial politic of many editors in our countries!

[Knonfoda]

The funny thing Diocle, is that judging from my own very recent four years of university experience, and especially in dealing with it's horrid library, I regret to say your calculation is very much spot on. Some books I thought would be in high demand (Gibbon!) had only ONE copy in the University library, and the it had only been taken out three times since it was stocked in 2005, nearly all with two year gaps in between.

[Valentinian Victor]

Not every university or college has a need for very specialised books, thats why a lot of courses give you a book list that you either have to source from other libraries or you have to purchase. I still teach students from time to time and I was initially agast at the amount of 'book fairs' that would be held directly outside of the conference rooms I attended for teacher lectures! It is a sad but true statement that there is more reliance on students having to source their own reference works as Universities and colleges will only invest in the 'core' text books.

If your lucky enough to undertake a course where you are given a yearly sum of money to purchase books, like I have been very fortunate to do so, then life is a little bit better.

I forsee a great problem with e-books in the exam field as my smart phone has the Amazon Kindle app (downloaded for free from Amazon), this has turned my mobile phone into a Kindle device. I could download lots of text books and other material into my phone and read the info needed for exam answers direct from my phone. Not good for honest learners, great for cheats!