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Thread: How to defeat mass warcry?

  1. #1
    Brain_in_a_vat's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default How to defeat mass warcry?

    Okay so I'm pretty new to this game, only played around 60-70 battles although I'm not too bad (won about 95% of them, mainly due to the vast amount of noobs who play). Last game I finally conceded a loss and I'm wondering how I would go about countering the guy's army build if I face it another time. His army was comprised of about 4-5 well vetted NWM, about 3-4 fairly vetted katana samurai 4 naginata attendants, 3 naginata monk cavalry and 1 light cavalry. My army was as follows:

    4 katana samurai,
    1 matchlock warrior monk,
    3 yari cavalry,
    1 fire cavalry
    1 naginata warrior monk,
    1 wako raider,
    2 naginata samurai.

    So I sent my cavalry round his flank as soon as his infantry started moving in and at the same time as the clash between our infantry occurred I charged his cavalry which was stationed slightly behind his lines. Due to his superior infantry numbers and multiple war-cries, my infantry was doomed. It didn't help that my matchlocks failed to fire on his advancing katana samurai. His cavalry simply held my cavalry while his infantry did the job, although I did come close to wounding his general.

    I'm baffled at how to go about defeating an army of this type as naginata monk cavalry can hold even yari cavalry for an extended period of time, 4 whole units of nag attendants can be used as a meat shield or to support cavalry/general and 3+ katana samurai complemented by 4+ naginata warrior monk with warcry is almost impossible to beat. If you subtract from your cavalry force then his cavalry will win and can flank, if you subtract from infantry then his infantry will maul you even faster and if you bring a large skirmishing component (which I never do, nor am skilled enough to use at the moment) then he can soak up damage with 4 naginata attendants.

    edit: failed to mention that both our generals entered stand & fight and my guys still routed within 30 seconds of fighting his infantry; such is the power of the war-cry blob. Also, the battle was pretty close; he had about 1500 soldiers, I had about 1300, he killed about 1100 of my troops and I killed 1050 of his.
    Last edited by Brain_in_a_vat; March 11, 2012 at 05:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Chris lol's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Having +2 army morale goes a long way to not massrout...

    Other than that try infantry officer, using rally or even using hold firm.
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  3. #3
    Brain_in_a_vat's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Got 2+ morale. You read what happened?

  4. #4
    Chris lol's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    You question is how to defeat mass warcry. I just gave you the answer: having good morale or using hold firm. Or killing him before warcry comes off cooldown.

    Your play by play story of your match is very interesting and all but wether or not your yari cav beat his monk cav isnt all that relevant to how you are supposed to handle warcry spam. The used retainers and gen skill trees however are.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    You cant stack warcries. The easiest way of countering it is hold firm, it gives your units unbreaking morale and overcomes the defense penalty. Also, you had more units of cavalry, you could have easily used a few to keep his cavalry busy and hit his katana samurai from behind, and use your monks' warcry at the same time. Those naginata samurai could have easily slowed down most of his infantry too, so you could have sent the monks around the flank and your katanas into the fight when your naginatas died.

  6. #6

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Hold Firm: +6 defense, unbreakable morale
    War Cry: -3 defense, morale penalty

    It's like they are meant to go together or something...

  7. #7

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ares1214 View Post
    Hold Firm: +6 defense, unbreakable morale
    War Cry: -3 defense, morale penalty

    It's like they are meant to go together or something...
    to be precise, war cry is -4 morale and -3 defence.
    So if you use HF to conter war cry, you still net +3 defence.

  8. #8

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    probably best if you start learning what you hate which is skirmish a bit with your gun. Bring more balance army next time help too. 4 foot range and 1 bow cav isn't large skirmish component, is part of a balance diet.

  9. #9

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by VersionLangley View Post
    probably best if you start learning what you hate which is skirmish a bit with your gun. Bring more balance army next time help too. 4 foot range and 1 bow cav isn't large skirmish component, is part of a balance diet.
    I doubt how long you can kite with those bows units? I good rush player can destroy your "balanced army" in one single blow.

  10. #10

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Depends...if it play on medium size then it do quite well.

    On large unit size, you're right, i'll have very little to no chance.

  11. #11

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by CptAustus View Post
    You cant stack warcries. The easiest way of countering it is hold firm, it gives your units unbreaking morale and overcomes the defense penalty. Also, you had more units of cavalry, you could have easily used a few to keep his cavalry busy and hit his katana samurai from behind, and use your monks' warcry at the same time. Those naginata samurai could have easily slowed down most of his infantry too, so you could have sent the monks around the flank and your katanas into the fight when your naginatas died.
    You can't stack Warcry. That's right, but have you ever thought of how often he could use Warcry, so that after one is used, you can use the next after it loses its effect?

  12. #12

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by Addi96 View Post
    You can't stack Warcry. That's right, but have you ever thought of how often he could use Warcry, so that after one is used, you can use the next after it loses its effect?
    From my experience with monk core armies, when the first warcry wears out, the battle has already been decided. And he stacks warcries? Stack hold firms.

  13. #13

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Hold firms can be a long way away when you're fairly new to the game, but if you are able to field 3 at any time, you can keep drop one each time one fails. Infinite hold firm!

  14. #14
    crzyrndm's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    I think the only counter is vets. Warcry is very effective on masses of average units, but if you arent losing too badly after it gets triggered the morale shouldnt be a problem. Good YA vets will waver, but are unlikely to rout without a second penalty. Samurai vets shouldn't even notice the morale hit, and your reserves shouldnt be affected by it, so can come in and reinforce the line.

    His cavalry simply held my cavalry while his infantry did the job, although I did come close to wounding his general.
    If he has monk cav, especially vetted monk cav, send in a enough cav to hold them up, and do your best with the rest (either rear charging the monk cav, or getting behind the melee)
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  15. #15

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Hmm I had a weird game last night against monks.

    I use mainly samurai being a melee general average morale of 14.

    The battle had only just joined,not many casualties anywhere and the guy hadnt even effected warcry across most my army,yet my guys folded without much of a fight and I get the all is lost message (or something like that)yet my general still kicking with alot of units in radius,I hit rally,but no units wanted to rejoin the fight.

    I hadnt even really set up my flanking force and they were running for their lives lol.I dismounted some katana cav at the back of my army for combat with nagi monks,but as soon as I dismounted they routed as well.

    I do remember another time,long ago now tho and was only my first time rank 7 bronze,my whole army just left the field upon contact with my opponents front line of monks and I was like....

    I dunno sometimes morale in this game is just weird.

  16. #16
    crzyrndm's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by (Darkelf) Temper View Post
    I dunno sometimes morale in this game is just weird.
    I've had the same thing happen. Armies engage, all my forces rout in about 10 seconds(I didnt even get time to get my cav around behind the guy). Worst part was, it wasnt even monks that did it
    It’s better to excite some and offend others than be bland and acceptable to all
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  17. #17

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    That is because units gain morale when they engage the enemy, so if the enemy drops your morale before contact he can chain rout your army without a single sword swing.

    That was my cure to the Loansword spam. Land whistling arrows on them get monks in range and drop warcry and I got several LS armies to rout before they even engaged me. But then I would just get drop hacked so damned if you do damned if you don't.
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  18. #18

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    That's just the thing Perablenta,In the first game I described,only one or two of my units were effected by negative morale abilities eg:Warcry

    My troops weren't fatigued,they weren't under ranged fire,half my army had taken higher ground,two katana cav had gotten around a flank and behind the enemy lines,my general was located basically in the middle of the fight,covering most of my army with his aura,rally was active,only one warcry had been used by my enemy at this stage.

    I had no negative effect retainers bar fugu cook played against me,but I used no sword units anyway.My army basically just left the field without putting up a fight (all is lost)

    Second and older game was much the same,there wasnt any visible negative morale effects and battle this time was on flat ground,he had no ranged units,except my enemy didnt even use warcry at all,our front lines clashed and my army just proceeded to rout enmasse,not chain routed,got the same message as the first game seconds before the mass route *all is lost*.

    There was no manouvering no shooting,no abilities being used,no higher ground,hardly a casualty on either side,flanking forces hadnt even mobilized,my front lines rear and flanks were not compromised,average morale of my troops is 14.

    I am aware that it is possible to bestow something like -12 to -14 morale upon an opponent,but that takes clickable/activated abilities to achieve and the debuff icons can be seen quite easily.

    What makes me suspicous is that,it only happens against monk spam/heavey armies.My troops even endure three units of matchlock firing into them for a longer period.

    Not so much whining about it tho,it provides a lol moment for me,just like to share that I have had similar experience. =)
    Last edited by (Darkelf) Temper; March 12, 2012 at 11:37 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    I haven't read what the conversation has turned into so I don't know if this has been said. You probably would have won if you brought something like a 200 range Daikyu Samurai.

  20. #20
    crzyrndm's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: How to defeat mass warcry?

    Quote Originally Posted by perablenta View Post
    That is because units gain morale when they engage the enemy, so if the enemy drops your morale before contact he can chain rout your army without a single sword swing.
    No warcry/whistlers, no highly vetted swords for scare enemies, there might have been a matchlock but it wasnt significant, and no cav.

    Veteran samurai running from a couple of attendants was pretty much how the battle went.
    It’s better to excite some and offend others than be bland and acceptable to all
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