Constitutional Clarity

[Magicman2051]

Meatier topics ahoy.

The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks get done. Upon entering office the Curator must officially appoint at least one Citizen to fulfill the Curator's role on a planned or unplanned absence, and should the Curator wish, to assist him on day to day tasks.

This particular article is a wee bit out of date so I'd propose this change.

The Curator is responsible for ensuring the Curia's day-to-day tasks get done. Upon entering office theThe Curator must officiallycan appoint at least one Citizenany number of Citizens to fulfill the Curator's role on a planned or unplanned absence, and should the Curator wish,during an absence and to assist him on day to day tasks.

I'd like to change the way a Curatorial absence is handled to make "Curators Assistant" a recognised position but I've had discussions about that topic before and don't feel the need to poke that particular bear. As it stands this change is mostly formative.

[Magicman2051]

It'll probably need to have an "as approved by the Administration" tossed in there somewhere.

[Aikanár]

It'll probably need to have an "as approved by the Administration" tossed in there somewhere.

Can't hurt

[Magicman2051]

The more up to date all of this gets, the better. The objective of this thread isn't to change the intent or power of the constitution, just to update it.

[Okmin]

Any decisions of this office shall be held over until a replacement is elected.

On a slightly related note, I've always wondered what this bit was talking about. Does it mean the Pro-Curator must uphold decisions made by the removed Curator? (Even the ones he may have been fired for?) Or is it not related to removing the Curator, and means that any decisions the Curator makes will be in effect until someone else is elected? And while we're at it, what decisions do I get to make anyway?

[Magicman2051]

/can'o'worms

Honestly I think that whole Curatorial absence section needs a significant review. For one I still question the validity of having to elect/nominate/choose a temporary curator at all, when surely in the interim a single CA could just keep citizen applications etc. ticking over while an election is held.

[Okmin]

It says the longest serving member of the CdeC becomes Pro-Curator until the elections are over. Which reminds me... Do you hold a special election or do you wait until the regularly scheduled one? Doesn't say anything about that. Which kinda sucks because it's usually up to the Curator to decide ambiguous constitutional stuff like that.

I do agree with you on the CA to acting-curator thing. Same logic that goes into picking the vice president over the president pro-tempore when the president dies.

By the way, with the things you're/we're wanting to do with this article, you'll have to submit it in the Proth as an amendment.

[Magicman2051]

I'm expecting that most of this will have to be submitted in bits and pieces, I just don't think that all the discussion should occur in each respective amendment thread and that some discussion here beforehand (regardless of how straightforward it may seem) could be beneficial to the overall goal. If we can space out each amendment so that they don't overlap then we can have the full attention of the active Curia on each suggestion, this avoids the potential for opinions to get lost in the chaos.

[Okmin]

I completely agree with you; just making sure you wouldn't go off and edit the constitution yourself

[Magicman2051]

I'd never do something like that

[Squid]

Any decisions of this office shall be held over until a replacement is elected.

On a slightly related note, I've always wondered what this bit was talking about. Does it mean the Pro-Curator must uphold decisions made by the removed Curator? (Even the ones he may have been fired for?) Or is it not related to removing the Curator, and means that any decisions the Curator makes will be in effect until someone else is elected? And while we're at it, what decisions do I get to make anyway?

That's mostly for stuff like passing a candidate or implementing a disciplinary decision as before that can happen a curator can veto it. So any active case cannot be resolved until there is a curator with veto power who either chooses to exercise it or not.

II do agree with you on the CA to acting-curator thing. Same logic that goes into picking the vice president over the president pro-tempore when the president dies.

Not really, you can have the VP take over for the president because he's elected, the curatorial assistant(s) are not elected hence have no business wielding the actual decision making power of the office. Also there will only be one longest serving councilor you can and do have multiple assistants which would cause other problems.

I also don't agree with replacing "chancellor" with "member responsible for the university", the chancellor of a university is by commonly accepted definition the person in change of the university. Hader is the current chancellor, the fact that he doesn't have a badge or a title under his other badge doesn't change this.

[Bolkonsky]

GED gave me control of the Uni a while back to try and get it active again (since he had not the time) and allowed me to expand it a bit past modding classes to see if that helped activity. So far it has been going well.

And there really is no chancellor position or whatever the hell the constitution might say. I keep the Uni in order, hire or fire professors as necessary and keep courses on track. That's all that needs to be done.

He bribes me a bit too ^^



On topic:

Get rid of the chancellor crap. It's not needed and Hader/whomever GED appoints can handle it just fine.

[SonofPeverel]

I also don't agree with replacing "chancellor" with "member responsible for the university", the chancellor of a university is by commonly accepted definition the person in change of the university. Hader is the current chancellor, the fact that he doesn't have a badge or a title under his other badge doesn't change this.

I agree. I don't see the need to change the title of the head of the university. If Hader doesn't want to wear the rank that's his business, but there is no reason to remove "chancellor" for something more vague, if the purpose is to clarify the constitution.

[Hader]

I also don't agree with replacing "chancellor" with "member responsible for the university", the chancellor of a university is by commonly accepted definition the person in change of the university. Hader is the current chancellor, the fact that he doesn't have a badge or a title under his other badge doesn't change this.

Get rid of the chancellor crap. It's not needed and Hader/whomever GED appoints can handle it just fine.

I agree. I don't see the need to change the title of the head of the university. If Hader doesn't want to wear the rank that's his business, but there is no reason to remove "chancellor" for something more vague, if the purpose is to clarify the constitution.

I will only accept the replacement of chancellor with the title of seneschal. Nothing else shall suffice.







Title isn't needed nor desired, so I would say do away with it. But if anyone disagrees, keep it, or drag GED here and ask him.

[Magicman2051]

Glad you weighed in on this Squid.

Also there will only be one longest serving councilor you can and do have multiple assistants which would cause other problems.

That is doubtful, I agree that many assistants (which can be changed, quite easily) can cause problems but in so far as it goes what defines "longest serving"? Most consecutive terms? In which case there is a chance that two others will be valid candidates. Most overall terms? In which case any number of sitting CdeCer's could have that.

Furthermore, we've actually totally abandoned the "member responsible for the university" bit also Squid, read my post two down from the post you got that from.

@ Son etc.

As I've said earlier, Chancellor was meant to be an elected position, with a whole slew of other responsibilities. That isn't the case now, and the reference is an unnecessary artefact.

[SonofPeverel]

@ Son etc.

As I've said earlier, Chancellor was meant to be an elected position, with a whole slew of other responsibilities. That isn't the case now, and the reference is an unnecessary artefact.

If that is the case, then I think chancellor should be labeled as a hex appointed position like the tribunes.

[Magicman2051]

Then we would be required to either add the length and breath of the previous work on the topic to the Constitution or remove all constitutional references anyway as it is no longer covered under that umbrella and effectively becomes a position for Content staff. If the latter is what you want, then you already have it. If the former is true then please feel free to suggest changes and additions but this isn't the thread to do that in. This is about cleaning up the current constitution, not making huge sweeping changes to the entire thing or reviving positions that no one even noticed until it was pointed out.

As I said in the OP and what you quoted, right now it is an unnecessary artefact.

[SonofPeverel]

I'm on my phone so excuse me being breif. I do not think that the chancellor or uni for that matter is a position for content staff, or that it should be. I agree that the stated part of the constitution needs clarifying so I will work on it ASAP, I do not , however, think the chancellor position is unnecessary and should be done away with.

[Magicman2051]

Son, you do realise these are the only references in the entire Constitution to a position that hasn't been filled by anyone in 3 years?

[SonofPeverel]

Yes, I do, and as Squid said Hader is the current chancellor, and GED before him and Augustus Lucifer before him. As the university has "risen again" lately (since the end of 2011 there has been one completed course, two ongoing now, one soon to be release, and two more in the works) this is an important position.

When I fist started teaching in the uni there was a thread by AL that outlined the chancellor, profs etc, in great detail. I will look for it when im at a computer.