View Poll Results: Do you support a precision strike on Syrian military targets against the use of chemical weapons?

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Thread: The Syrian Civil War Thread

  1. #6781
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Right, the rebels are at fault that the government decides to use rocket artillery to "defend its people."

    Kinda weird how the rebels are able to take territory without destroying it first isn't it?

    This kind of apologism for blatant destruction of life and property is just the worst.
    So, you think that the people who attacked residential areas and civilian cities are not responsible from the destruction. And , thinking that no destruction happens when rebels conquers an area! They must ask peacefully to government soldiers to leave the area, then shake hands and sent them on their way, according to you

  2. #6782
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Yeah ummm no, they don't contradict each other at all. They're in different neighborhoods. The scenes don't contradict each other, they show that living in Homs today goes from bad, to extremely awful, to impossible.
    But no fighting. Which is what my point was this entire time.

    Yup that's my fault. Though obviously you didn't follow my instructions via Youtube. Plenty of brand new videos showing what has happened to Homs.
    I did exactly what you asked. I copy and pasted the phrase into YouTube. Only two results that were in the last 2 months came up. That may have been my lack of experience searching youtube. But I don't give a . The onus is on you to give me the sources, your lucky I'm even looking for them myself. Most other members on this forum would have a fit if I tried making them looking for the sources that show them wrong.

    Yeah no ****. That wasn't the point. For someone that keeps claiming to only "want the sources" you sure do a lot of handwaiving and ignoring of what's going on.
    No ing considering you told me it was calm. You also told me operations hadn't been carried out for a while there. Sue me for listening to what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    This video was made only two days ago. No wonder it's calm, the whole place is decimated.

    Only difference now is that there's a governor there finally who is unwilling to do the same to the Old City. Instead he's trying to negotiate with the rebels, who have not conducted any operations for some time as a result. Crazy what talking instead of shooting might accomplish eh?
    Tell you what, copy-paste اشتباكات حمص into Youtube and then under filter select "this week." Then you'll see videos of fighting that is, oh my, this week.
    I'm sick of trying to find your sources for you.

    This website is the the site of the large rebel formation which has its headquarters in Homs, the Farouq Brigades. In this post they are detailing events in the city today (the bombardment of civilians homes by 240mm mortars and a meeting conducted by officers to formulate a new military strategy for Homs after the influx of reinforcements).
    Finally. We actually get the source I asked for. Thank you. That will be all. I accept fighting has resumed in Homs. Next time, just post the written source first. It'll save you writing out paragraphs shouting at me for some imaginary slight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanaric View Post
    Seriously? This is not like that this is the ruins of Cthespon. This isn't a battle of decades past, this is a modern city recently sent into ruins.
    Oh. No. What a terrible shame. I forgot to add the word recent into my post. Clearly makes it incomprehensible to everyone that I meant a major battle within the last 6-11 months. You know, despite the amount of media attention on the battle.

    No, instead you could post entire cities, seeing they are intact, and see that nothing is going on. Seriously? Really now? Showing some fortress and showing a recently bombed city are two entirely different things.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

    Yes. Possibly childish, but honestly I don't care. I exaggerated. But I also gave a reasonable argument. The city has been decimated for months. There was no evidence that this was a recent building collapse. And the reply I got was a long line of 'hahahaha' repeating at me. Focusing on the clear exaggeration just demonstrates people have no position. It is the supplement to the argument. Not the argument itself. It shows what the argument is in effect saying by making it much easier to understand by taking it to extremes.

    Logic and reason are being thrown out the door here. Not reasonable at all.
    Yeah and replying to posts with 'hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha' is reasonable.
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  3. #6783
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    So, you think that the people who attacked residential areas and civilian cities are not responsible from the destruction. And , thinking that no destruction happens when rebels conquers an area! They must ask peacefully to government soldiers to leave the area, then shake hands and sent them on their way, according to you
    You are becoming ridiculous. Who bombarded residential area with artillery and planes ? The rebels who lack these weapons. Of course ...

    Nobody have negate destructions and crimes made by the heterogeneous rebel group. But to play to "who is worst" is utterly rubbish when you try to justify the Assad's action.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    But no fighting. Which is what my point was this entire time.
    So it is just fine and calm for you to live in a city razed for a good part and the other occupied by soldiers. I am not sure the term "peaceful" is justify for a city that was a major battlefield even one year ago of a war that still rage and won't end soon.

    But I guess you are a true man and everyone else is weak nature.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    I did exactly what you asked. I copy and pasted the phrase into YouTube. Only two results that were in the last 2 months came up. That may have been my lack of experience searching youtube. But I don't give a . The onus is on you to give me the sources, your lucky I'm even looking for them myself. Most other members on this forum would have a fit if I tried making them looking for the sources that show them wrong.
    Copy your research then once you had your first page of result click on filter. There are dozens of results from the last weak and even from today. Learn how to use your tool.
    Last edited by Anna_Gein; February 28, 2013 at 01:33 PM.

  4. #6784
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Actually the rebels have planes now. And I would have assumed that they've captured some artillery. Though it's still 99% likely it's Assad.

    Any word on that Syrian flying squadron? Is it operational yet? Or was it merely a propaganda stunt and they don't intend to get it running?
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    Actually the rebels have planes now. And I would have assumed that they've captured some artillery. Though it's still 99% likely it's Assad.

    Any word on that Syrian flying squadron? Is it operational yet? Or was it merely a propaganda stunt and they don't intend to get it running?
    I have serious doubts that an FSA air force can fly very often, and even then, they want to rule the country afterwards, they don't gain anything by indiscriminately bombing the cities.
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  6. #6786
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Pignans View Post
    So that's a no, you don't have confirmation then.

    Could have just said that. I would like a source confirming it. I would. But if you don't have one, that's fine too. Lets just have some honesty please? As oppose to just writing 'hahaha' over and over again at my posts.

    I'm interested in these events. I'm not just going to close my ears and hum loudly and pretend you haven't given me a source if you do. I'll accept it.

    I've written "hahaha" in response to your post exactly once, so I'm not sure where the "over and over" thing comes from. And I never said I gave you a source, either. Because I don't find it necessary to source something so easily found.

    You want to be objective. I get it. But when you keep finding excuses to discount such widely publicized facts, facts that don't necessarily even support the rebels, but are posted by people who do, it looks less like objectivity and more like insisting on being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. That or desperate to portray Assad as something different than the media portrays him as, a brutal dictator. Maybe you don't trust the media, I don't know. But I know that at a certain point the mental gymnastics make it seem like you've got an agenda of some sort.
    Last edited by s.rwitt; February 28, 2013 at 02:33 PM.

  7. #6787
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    I see the E.U. have agreed to give more non lethal aid to the rebel/terrorist groups.
    Probably cash so they can buy what they need to cause more mayhem.
    So the E.U. citizens are having their money given away to cause more trouble.

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  8. #6788
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    The EU and US specifically designated aid to non-terrorist groups. This propaganda gets pretty lame.
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  9. #6789
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    I've written "hahaha" in response to your post exactly once, so I'm not sure where the "over and over" thing comes from. And I never said I gave you a source, either. Because I don't find it necessary to source something so easily found.
    I meant you wrote haha over and over again, not posted it over and over again. Should have made that clearer, my bad.

    You want to be objective. I get it. But when you keep finding excuses to discount such widely publicized facts, facts that don't necessarily even support the rebels, but are posted by people who do, it looks less like objectivity and more like insisting on being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian. That or desperate to portray Assad as something different than the media portrays him as, a brutal dictator. Maybe you don't trust the media, I don't know. But I know that at a certain point the mental gymnastics make it seem like you've got an agenda of some sort.
    I was told by Motiv that the place was calm and that operations hadn't been conducted recently. See my post above for the relevant quote. So no. This was not a clear cut issue, and as I've said before, I don't have much time to go trawling through endless sites for information. I use the sites I frequent most. Which don't often post the day to day occurrences of the war. And I'm an ancient historian, it's been drummed into me to trust no sources. So I'm naturally critical of them. A picture is hardly enough evidence for me.

    And everyone has an agenda. I try to be objective. But I'm contrarian by nature. This seeps through apparently.
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  10. #6790
    Sir Pignans's Avatar The bringer of cheese.
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Just saw this. Replying now. Sorry I didn't notice it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Anna_Gein View Post
    So it is just fine and calm for you to live in a city razed for a good part and the other occupied by soldiers. I am not sure the term "peaceful" is justify for a city that was a major battlefield even one year ago of a war that still rage and won't end soon.

    But I guess you are a true man and everyone else is weak nature.
    I would say that was calm, yes (before I got the source from Motiv that fighting had resumed). Acceptable to the people living there? Different question. Don't try and confuse the issue. The Assad regime has always been brutal and authoritarian. I have not claimed that it was an acceptable living standard for the people living there.

    Copy your research then once you had your first page of result click on filter. There are dozens of results from the last weak and even from today. Learn how to use your tool.
    No. The onus is on you (or in this case the person I was arguing with) to provide the sources that prove me wrong. I don't use youtube. I do not really understand how it works. That is not my fault. This is the standard practice in the mudpit. I went pretty drastic by even looking for videos in the first place, despite not understanding the language of the videos I was looking for, or being knowledgeable about the search engine I was using.
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  11. #6791
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Blaze86420 View Post
    Well no **** sherlock, it's a civil war with two sides; the chances of having society's trash spread itself out is pretty damn high.
    You'd think with so much of the country under rebel control we'd start seeing some of that impending apocalypse you, Odenat, and Magpie keep promising us, yet the most we've ever seen so far coming from the ENTIRE opposition are summary executions of Shabihah members, and the occasional intelligence officer or Syrian soldier, with the majority being committed by Al Nusrah. And yeah, keep telling yourself that your BS is fact, it's one way of avoiding having to actually provide any substance. Evidence of sectarianism? An Alawite shrine or two being vandalized. Meanwhile, regime forces conduct massacre after massacre, level entire cities with indiscriminate bombing, but they're the saner choice because Assad and his crew drink wine and play blackjack or what ever the hell you were going on about earlier.

    As for your dumbass question, the rebels weren't the ones who escalated the situation. They weren't the ones who opened fire. So the question you should be asking is whether the regime maintaining power was worth all the bloodshed, since you know, THEY'RE THE ONES RESPONSIBLE FOR MOST OF IT. What exactly do imagine happening if the rebels would just drop their weapons tomorrow? What's this situation that you think is salvageable? Are you not aware of the amount of damage the government has been responsible for? And prior to the rebellion, the decades of corruption, social injustice, and repression? Or do you blind yourself to Syrian history just like the present? You want an answer to your question? Yeah, it is worth it. Would have been great if he abdicated peacefully, actually you know what, forget abdication, it would have been good enough if he just offered promise of reform without massacring protesters, even if it wasn't genuine. But since that obviously wasn't the case, this regime does deserve the boot even if it costs this many lives, and don't you dare try to spin it as if this is somehow the rebellion's doing.
    Well the UN described some of the actions of the rebels as war crimes/atrocities. When the rebels are in power and have full control of government resources and so forth, their actions might be even worse. We can only speculate at this point, but I have my legitimate doubts about if the rebels will be better than Assad's regime if they come to power. I never said Assad was an angel in all of this. He too has committed atrocities - in all, this whole war has been filled with them. Though one must see also that rebels here have also been a pawn for external powers to get a foothold in the country and get their desired people in. Mainly the big Sunni Countries + Western countries opposed to Iranian/Russian influence. My preference for Assad over the rebels is purely geopolitical. That's not to say that I wish all human rights abuses to stop.

    Syrian regime did make some concessions in the beginning and maybe if a better dialogue was reached the concessions would have been made even more to suit the needs of the rebels. Of course the regime made some fatal mistakes in these beginning stages that set the stage for more violence. As for all the bloodshed/violence being worth it or no, we can only say after we see what type of regime the rebels institute if they take power.
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  12. #6792
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    My preference for Assad over the rebels is purely geopolitical.
    Well at least someone will admit it.

    Now you can stop pretending it's because you're worried about the possible chance of the rebels maybe being like Assad if they win in the same breath.

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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    Well at least someone will admit it.

    Now you can stop pretending it's because you're worried about the possible chance of the rebels maybe being like Assad if they win in the same breath.
    Don't worry, there will still be plenty of false equivalency and straw men and red herrings to prop up that morally and logically untenable position.
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  14. #6794
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Mov View Post
    Well the UN described some of the actions of the rebels as war crimes/atrocities. When the rebels are in power and have full control of government resources and so forth, their actions might be even worse. We can only speculate at this point, but I have my legitimate doubts about if the rebels will be better than Assad's regime if they come to power. I never said Assad was an angel in all of this. He too has committed atrocities - in all, this whole war has been filled with them. Though one must see also that rebels here have also been a pawn for external powers to get a foothold in the country and get their desired people in. Mainly the big Sunni Countries + Western countries opposed to Iranian/Russian influence. My preference for Assad over the rebels is purely geopolitical. That's not to say that I wish all human rights abuses to stop.
    During the American War of Independence, many of our actions against Loyalists could be called war crimes today, yet the US turned out fine.

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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    I'm pretty sure America saw the cleansing of Tories at a rate per capita that is higher than Alawites are being removed from areas of Syria specifically because of their connection to the regime. Interestingly the amount of loyalists during the American Revolution has been estimated to about the same as what might constitute loyalist elements in Syria as well, some 15-20 percent. The fleeing of those loyalists whether by force or at the invitation of the British Crown or because they did not want to be a part of the new republic, as well as the confiscation of their properties, was an issue still being resolved in the 1790s.

    However it's getting pretty tiring hearing Alawites being singled out when the nearly one million refugees outside of the country (not even counting the internally-displaced) are overwhelmingly Sunni Muslims. In nearly two years of revolution, over one year of fighting, the mass-slaughter of Alawites hasn't materialized yet. Instead its the majority population that is suffering monstrously.
    Last edited by motiv-8; February 28, 2013 at 09:49 PM.
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  16. #6796
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    In nearly two years of revolution, over one year of fighting, the mass-slaughter of Alawites hasn't materialized yet. Instead its the majority population that is suffering monstrously.
    that's a false equivalency and morally and logically untenable position. Now, who was right? yes, motiv was right when saying ;

    Quote Originally Posted by motiv-8 View Post
    Don't worry, there will still be plenty of false equivalency and straw men and red herrings to prop up that morally and logically untenable position.

  17. #6797
    HissingNewt's Avatar Pili Posterior
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Odenat View Post
    that's a false equivalency and morally and logically untenable position. Now, who was right? yes, motiv was right when saying ;
    That's not a false equivalency, he's just saying you're wrong.
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  18. #6798
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Well now we know why Odenat keeps falling into false equivalency fallacy: he doesn't even know what it is, as he's doing it.
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  19. #6799
    s.rwitt's Avatar Shamb Conspiracy Member
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    List of terms that require explanation attached to any further use in this thread:

    1. Democracy
    2. False equivalency

  20. #6800
    Blaze86420's Avatar Equites Alares
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    Default Re: The Syrian Civil War Thread

    Add secularism, terrorism, and theocracy to that list.

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