[Hotseat] Westeros at War (/Greyjoy Free)

[Skizbot]

...Attacking the city of someone who declared war on me? Tyrell had a full stack right next to me, why would I think he wasn't attacking? I said not to give me free passage, and Tyrell didn't say anything to indicate that he would. We talked via PM and it was clear we were at war. I told him I was going for Bitterbridge and Tumbleton, and I attacked Tumbleton. Explain to me what happened that was dirty.


I already quoted where I clearly said that I wasn't requesting or expecting free passage. To actually surround Renly's army from 8 directions so that he literally could not move one step first turn while I was banned from attacking would have been extremely cheap and certainly a "hostile action", and I trust Martin not to pull something like that. But with units blocking off the bridges and Garlan's full army in the only direction I could move, it didn't seem like Tyrell was going to let Renly walk back to the Stormlands. We never said Renly was getting free passage, Tyrell if you didn't read my posts I don't know what to tell you. Even if you didn't I would have thought the fact that my entire army was holed up in fort next to Tumbleton would have made it clear that I wasn't walking away, if you thought I was leaving I don't understand why you made no comment that turn.

From Tyrell via PM:

A bummer, I suppose I will just have to destroy you and use your lands to attack them.

Yes, so dirty of me to attack someone who said that.

I understand and appreciate that Tyrell offered to give Renly passage, but it seems pretty to clear to me from my posts that I declined. Tyrell if it seems more fair to you, I won't siege Bitterbridge this turn.

[Pinkie Pie]

You might as well attack, you do not have enough men to hold the castle.

[Mithridate]

...Attacking the city of someone who declared war on me? Tyrell had a full stack right next to me, why would I think he wasn't attacking? I said not to give me free passage, and Tyrell didn't say anything to indicate that he would. We talked via PM and it was clear we were at war. I told him I was going for Bitterbridge and Tumbleton, and I attacked Bitterbridge. Explain to me what happened that was dirty.

Statements from Tyrell/martin

I have already said I would let him march to his own castles before I attacked which would give him the advantage.
I would agree to not attack you until you have withdrawn to Storm's End.
What if I let you withdraw past the first castle east of Bitterbridge (Fellwood I believe) before moving any armies into the Stormlands.

Your private dealing i know nothing of but Martin have stated numerous times that he will allow you out of his lands without attacking. You attackhim him pre-exit is taking a piss on the agreement im under the impression you had. Should you have made a different agreement then im simply wrong.

We never said Renly was getting free passage, Tyrell if you didn't read my posts I don't know what to tell you. Even if you didn't I would have thought the fact that my entire army was holed up in fort next to Bitterbridge would have made it clear that I wasn't walking away, if you thought I was leaving I don't understand why you made no comment that turn.

He did several times and here you claim he should go by your posts instead of mentioned PM deal btw

To me it looks like you broke the deal with Tyrell about withdrawing to your lands and that you remained in this hotseat when you got convinced you would be allowed safe passage

[Mithridate]

All im saying is that its dirty, way dirtier than you accused him to be.

I also applaud you for doing it though, taking advantage of the opening he left you regardless if the deal was made or not since i doubt he demanded your word on not attacking until you had returned to your own lands.

The south tearing itself apart is to my benefit as long as Martell remains relatively safe

[kiwibloke]

its a game of thrones! as long as he hasnt broken any of the rules on th main page (as far as i know he hasnt) then it is perfectly fair, Just dont trust him in the future

Arryn you need to make a decision about kings offer, inform us this turn. the offer was

I feel, as compensation for all this betrayal to the crown, that the Arryns should offer Heart's Home and Redfort to either be controlled by myself, the Lannisters, the Starks, or the Tullies

[Skizbot]

Mithridate, what the hell are you talking about? Yes, we talked about giving Renly free passage- and I said no. I joined the game without ever accepting that or making that deal. I don't know why I have to quote myself twice, but apparently you didn't read it the first time:

Screw it, I'm in. The rules and RP give Renly a pretty weird start but I'll manage, even without Loras to warm my bed

And Tyrell you don't need to give Renly safe passage, feel free to attack Loras's praying buddy whenever you want to.

There was never any deal to let Renly leave- Martin offered it, I declined. On top of all that, he blocked off every bridge and way out of the Reach, with a full army under Garlan in the only direction I could move Renly. To avoid being attacked by Garlan I built a fort next to Tumbleton and had my whole army there- clearly Renly was not leaving, and Tyrell made no comment suggesting he thought he was. All of this has been said before, I'm not sure what is so difficult for you to understand.

To me it looks like you broke the deal with Tyrell about withdrawing to your lands and that you remained in this hotseat when you got convinced you would be allowed safe passage

Then you need to work on your comprehension of English. Show me one point where I agreed that Renly would get safe passage back to the Stormlands or entered the hotseat based on that deal. If not, stop making idiotic accusations of someone playing dirty when you have no idea whats going on.


Here's what you quoted from Martin:

I have already said I would let him march to his own castles before I attacked which would give him the advantage.
I would agree to not attack you until you have withdrawn to Storm's End.
What if I let you withdraw past the first castle east of Bitterbridge (Fellwood I believe) before moving any armies into the Stormlands.

If English is your first language and you have an IQ over 70, its probably not hard to see that he was proposing a deal we could make- and I never said yes. I said "screw it", I'll play anyway. There was clearly never any deal for Renly to leave, if Martin thought there was I'm confused by the massive Tyrell army within range of Renly and the fact that he didn't comment on my fort, that certainly didn't alert me of his misunderstanding.

You attackhim him pre-exit is taking a piss on the agreement

Show me this agreement. Otherwise, kindly shut the hell up. An agreement takes 2 people: if I say to you, "What if you give me all you money", that is not an agreement.

[Mithridate]

You attackhim him pre-exit is taking a piss on the agreement im under the impression you had. Should you have made a different agreement then im simply wrong.

To me it looks like you broke the deal with Tyrell about withdrawing to your lands and that you remained in this hotseat when you got convinced you would be allowed safe passage

Thats what im talking about, and lay off the personal insults. If me calling your actions against martin dirty offends you then i would have apologized, you are free to break any deals that i have no idea of knowing if they are made or not OR if they where made IC or not ( I really dont like people breaking OC deals ).

I praised your actions in game, i also praise Martin for putting so much trust on you for i would simply massacre you and take your lands without a second thought. Especially if you did not follow the arrangement I had or believed i had made wit you.

Then you need to work on your comprehension of English. Show me one point where I agreed that Renly would get safe passage back to the Stormlands or entered the hotseat based on that deal. If not, stop making idiotic accusations of someone playing dirty when you have no idea whats going on.

My English is fine, sloppy but fine. There are no points where you have confirmed the deal, several where he "confirms" one and a comment that makes it look unlikely. But clearly Martin was under impression that it had been signed and taking advantage of that is dirty enough.

If English is your first language and you have an IQ over 70, its probably not hard to see that he was proposing a deal we could make- and I never said yes. I said "screw it", I'll play anyway. There was clearly never any deal for Renly to leave, if Martin thought there was I'm confused by the massive Tyrell army within range of Renly and the fact that he didn't comment on my fort, that certainly didn't alert me of his misunderstanding.

Its not and i have not checked my IQ, over average im sure.
Id say he was employing a bit of caution but stuck to "the deal", quite amiable.

If you want to continue this "discussion" then by all means, but keep personal out of it

[Skizbot]

Good gods dude, I honestly don't know how much clearer I can make this for you. This deal you're imagining never existed. There was. No. Deal. I don't even...do you understand this? Am I going too fast?

Never at any point did I make anything that could have resembled an agreement to a deal fr Renly to have free passage to the Stormlands, or anything that would have given the impression that I was joining the hotseat based on that deal. If Martin had pulled his troops away from Renly and left all the routes out of Tyrell territory unblocked, I might have thought "Huh, does Martin think Renly is going to leave? I should PM him and make sure we're both clear about it". But he didn't. He used units to block off the bridges and escape routes, put a massive army under one of his best generals directly in the path of Renly on turn 1 which obviously made me assume he planned on attacking turn 2, and when I made a fort next to Tumbleton in defense of that attack and had a 20 unit army there, he didn't say anything. Not a word.


Mithridate, this is the third time I've explained this to you. If you don't get it by now I don't know what to do, besides recommend you check this out from your local library:

[Meshakhad]

Oh, will you two just make out and get it over with?

As with regards to this "deal" I find that I must refuse. Especially since I have learned of a separate deal arranged by Tyrion Lannister to give the Vale over to the hill tribes. It is obvious that this is merely a ploy to insert Lannister troops into my lands for the purpose of taking them away! AND I WILL NOT LET YOU!

HAIL TO KING STANNIS!

[Dux]

Can we keep it civil guys? What are we talking about anyway? I know it is fun to discuss meaningless things on the internet but one can take it too far. None of this matters whatsoever.

King Stannis welcomes Lord Arryn's support.

[Mithridate]

You can explain it how many times you want, I repeat my impression regarding "the deal" and continues:

Do you honestly want me to believe you did not take advantage over Martins good intentions?
It does not matter if the deal was signed or not, taking advantage on his good intentions is still what i call dirty.

Perhaps take a walk and calm down, the cold is refreshing.

Btw, Tyrell I request permission to cross your lands for I have a thing or two to do

[Mithridate]

Oh, will you two just make out and get it over with?

Tyrion raises a fist in anger!

As with regards to this "deal" I find that I must refuse. Especially since I have learned of a separate deal arranged by Tyrion Lannister to give the Vale over to the hill tribes. It is obvious that this is merely a ploy to insert Lannister troops into my lands for the purpose of taking them away! AND I WILL NOT LET YOU!
HAIL TO KING STANNIS!

Tyrion melts away under the harsh stare of Tywin

There shall be war then, My trip to visit Renly will have to wait it seems.

[Skizbot]

You can explain it how many times you want, I repeat my impression regarding "the deal" and continues:

Do you honestly want me to believe you did not take advantage over Martins good intentions?
It does not matter if the deal was signed or not, taking advantage on his good intentions is still what i call dirty.

Holy freaking Seven are you slow.

Your impression about a deal that only existed in your confused mind is irrelevant to this thread, this game, and me.

I did not taker advantage of anyone's good intentions. I was blocked in facing a massive Tyrell army. If someone blocked your path so the only direction you could move was right into a full stack under Garlan Tyrell while you were still banned from attacking, would you think they had good intentions?

Martin didn't literally box Renly in from 8 directions on the first turn, which is good because that would have been much worse than Lannister building turn 1 forts in the Riverlands, and would have qualified as a hostile action. Beyond not cheating, there was nothing he did that would have made me think he was abiding to some deal from Mithridate's imagination.


Even Martin said via PM, after this confusion:

I should have made it clearer that I was letting you withdraw east, i can understand how having Garlan and a full stack in the way may be construed as an attempt to stop you.

I never agreed to anything about me peacefully withdrawing. Twice I have quoted myself telling Martin that there was no free passage, and to attack whenever he wanted to. Why you and Martin got the idea that we agreed to free passage I will never know. We talked about it breifly, and I said "screw it".

Mithridate, you seem to be the only one who thinks I did something dirty here, which is odd since you don't have vision of either me or Tyrell. In general, its good not to talk about things which you don't understand. I understand you got an impression, and you need to try to comprehend the fact that your impression was wrong. If I get the impression that the moon is made of cheese, that does not become a valid argument. Your poor comprehension and lack of understanding gave you a wrong impression, and thats fine, people get wrong impressions all the time, but don't judge me based on your incorrect assumption. Stop calling my play dirty, stop saying I took advantage of someone, and learn to read more closely.

[Antoniusz]

Renly up!

[jacb547]

Can you guys get over it? Mithridate he said "Screw it!" and blocking all escape routes doesnt seem like letting him withdrawn east does it?

[Pinkie Pie]

I did not think you had agreed to a deal Skizbot, I had hoped you would realise that me not laying siege to your fort with 2 stacks would be noted as me letting you leave without being attacked. I could have attacked the fort and ended your army there but I decided that doing it was unfair and would only bring the issue up in another arguement.

[Mithridate]

Can you guys get over it? Mithridate he said "Screw it!" and blocking all escape routes doesnt seem like letting him withdrawn east does it?

I was, pretty much am. Asking people to get over something then diving into it is kinda double

[Pinkie Pie]

I did not block all escape routes, I sent 1 unit to make sure he did not head south, 1 unit to make sure he did not head north - both of these were my territory so it was not stopping him from retreating rather than stopping him from going through more of my territory. My army that was to the east was there to watch, if I had wanted to attack I could have attacked the fort he built next turn - I assumed this was here to defend his army while retreating which was why I did not bring it up - or even blockaded his army by surrounding him with single units. None of these are against the rules and not even considered hostile actions.

[Skizbot]

The territory to the north was not yours. Tumbleton is your northmost settlement.

A full stack under one of your best generals is a hell of a lot to "watch" someone.

You did not have 2 armies within range to siege my fort, only Garlan would have been able to reach it, not Tarly. Had Garlan seiged it Renly and the troops coming from Fellwood would likely have beaten him.

We had no agreement about free passage, and your actions did not suggest to me that you thought there was one. Anyway, because of the misunderstanding I already offered to not take Tumbleton, I haven't taken my turn yet and you can still take me up on that offer.

[Pinkie Pie]

Tarly did not have to be in range of the fort, Garlan could have moved to the fort and Tarly had enough movement points to move up behind him and therefore act as reinforcements should you attempt to break the siege.
I never stated that we had an agreement, I stated that even though we did not attacking you would have been unfair.
As the Lannisters I never attack the Tullys on turn 1 even if there isn't a rule against it simply because it is unfair on them.

Tubleton was to the north of the bridge which is why I placed a unit there, I left one way out because east is the only way to leave my regions.