Why is evolution controversial only in the US?

[IronBrig4]

Catholics aren't really hardcore when it comes to creationism, though. The most vocal creationists in the US tend to be the Holy Rollers from the Bible Belt.

[Armatus]

Everyone thinks Catholics are becoming soft on their religion these days because of the Vatican's quest for knowledge and a comment or two by Pope John Paul II on evolution, but I can assure you there's plenty of fundamentalists within the church who won't be turning into gnostics or agnostics for that mater any time soon especially under the current Pope Benedict XVI who's already expressed his views on evolution.

[Lord Baal]

Why is evolution controversial only in the US?
It's evolution baby!

[Hanny]

Every Bible used to contained:Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

When you change the words, you change the meaning why does the Church do that do you think? if not to conform to what is aceptable in current society, ie that women are not created from mans ribs to be second rate help[ers of men which simply means the Bible is a worthless man made work of fiction and not the word of God after all.,http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/words/niv1984_man.html

King James:http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

[Nikephoros Kapatsos]

Canada is plagued by the same issue, but to a bit of a lower extent. One day at school I see a poster written on it was "We are all God's Children". It was ironic this was posted very well next to my science class, I myself vandalized it clearing off the three lettered word; to displace that name of such a deity, with evolution. Thankfully after that day that was the last I seen of that poster at school. Well anyways there was a day we had an atheist supply teacher, and wow did I see the ignorance level of my age group. In chalk was inscribed "I love Jesus"; they further disrespected the teacher by calling him out as "godless", "your going to hell", and the usual stupid words that come from a strained perspective. However at least I have convinced a several students of how evolution is real, but receiving a lot of terrible backlash from some of them in the process. Fortunately I believe at-least 1/4 of these students should understand evolution, seeing as they are of the result of "Interracial marriage". What can I say looking back at history, change always arouses some form of discontent, fear, and controversy .m Well I guess at this rate were gonna strain ourselves, they can stop someone from teaching them evolution, but they can't stop the change that is the imminent future.

I have said enough

[Armatus]

Every Bible used to contained:Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

When you change the words, you change the meaning why does the Church do that do you think? if not to conform to what is aceptable in current society, ie that women are not created from mans ribs to be second rate help[ers of men which simply means the Bible is a worthless man made work of fiction and not the word of God after all.,http://www.slowley.com/niv2011_comparison/words/niv1984_man.html

King James:http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Genesis-Chapter-1/
26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

The best form of "Bible study" in my opinion is to learn the Greek. In the day and age where people at large are protesting the churches and forming their own new churches; I think there aught to be some introspection of actual belief. The can start teaching Aramaic, Greek and Latin languages to their followings. So they will have a much more intimate knowledge of *their religion*

[The spartan]

The best form of "Bible study" in my opinion is to learn the Greek. In the day and age where people at large are protesting the churches and forming their own new churches; I think there aught to be some introspection of actual belief. The can start teaching Aramaic, Greek and Latin languages to their followings. So they will have a much more intimate knowledge of *their religion*

Indeed, it reminds me of Spinoza back in the 17th century schooling christian theologists because he knew Hebrew and therefor had a better understanding of the Old Testament.

[Hanny]

The greek word for slave was used in the early Bible, over time, re written to make it mor palatable, it has morphed into servant, as the original Bible was soft on slavery, but 19 and 20th Century societies prefer the Bible to refer to servants rather than to them as slaves as they were orginal refered to.

[conon394]

The can start teaching Aramaic, Greek and Latin languages to their followings. So they will have a much more intimate knowledge of *their religion*

and Hebrew of course, but that's not really realistic how many people do you know who are fluent in 4 dead languages? Knowing the language poorly does not help either and certainly not with problems like say gay in English 100 years written it would have meant cheerful, now it means homosexual. A better solution would be for more people to have more scholarly annotated bibles that point out difrences in translation, alternative phrasing, or potential dificulties in translation, emendations and the like.

[Sphere]

In this regard, I like much better the Koranic tradition of Islam; it is the perfect word of God dictated to Mohammad only in Arabic. Any translation is flawed and therefor not acceptable. To read it and understand it correctly you must know Arabic. (Not to mention there are not four different version of the same event.)

Of course the Mormons have the gold standard, literally. Magical golden plates containing the word of god, and a full 11 people signed written testimonies attesting to have seen these plates. That would actually hold up as evidence in a court of law. Granted, they are trying a little too hard which is rather telling, but they certainly have their bases covered far more than Christians, Jews or even Muslims.

[Hanny]

Not the point of any Religion, if you have proof and certainity, what value is there is faith?. Which was why luther hated thinking christians, “There is on earth among all dangers no more dangerous thing than a richly endowed and adroit reason… Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed.”

He believed faith was not based on knowing and reason, but that faith and belief were enough without reasoned argument in ist support.

MLKing was better to read mind you.
"Faith is taking the first step even when you can't see the whole staircase."

What could possible be worse, that all the bad things that happen to people are the will of God because they deserved it, and are part of his grand design, rather than simply being random events.

[conon394]

To read it and understand it correctly you must know Arabic.

Tricky think still context, is Arabic completely unchanged since the prophet?

Hanny:


I rather think these two by Luther are better:

"The devil's bride, ratio, the whore, comes in and thinks she is clever."


"Stay at home with your ugly devil's bride, and to elevate and praise her so much but think and speak thus of her: Lady Reason does not fear God, does not love him, does not trust in him, but freely and without all embarrassment despises him and has no care for all his threats and promises; moreover his will and word giver her no pleasure and she does not love them but grumbles and mumbles, rages and blusters against them, especially when things go badly."

I know the sentiment from Luther but would he have included attempting the best translation in the damned reason?

[Armatus]

I don't think it's unreasonable to at least learn the Greek, I mean that's the least anyone can do if they truly want to study the bible rather than sit around trying to interpret Shakespeare's retelling of events.

I also don't readily accept the view that secular life styles are perfectly compatible with Christian practice. So to slow down and learn something about the faith and lead a simple life then doesn't become so much to expect, unless you put it into the modern context of fast pace secular living.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

I live in the Bible Belt. Everyone around here beleives in creatonism besides me and a few of my normal friends, and most of the aspie kids I know. The intelligent people are either Atheist, Agnostic, or Jewish around here. The christians constantly go overboard with their beliefs.

I have no animosity towards any religion, but I do want to say this; widern your horizons, and actually read a couple of books abotu the differing views of people regarding Evolution and regarding other religions before you go around saying "you're wrong" and then condemning them to hell.


I agree with Armatus too; Learn Greek and then go read the original version of the bible, written in classical greek. Understand what the bible really says. I speak some lating and am learning more, and am looking to learn greek. The translations are never perfect, unless you're a true EXPERT at the language. Then they can be really, really good.

EDIT: Also, it's true, South carolina is 49th in education. Our schools are rather high quality, but I always get kicked out of class for correcting the teacher about how this is wrong and why it's wrong etc.

What brings us down is that a lot of the prior generations are illiterate, especially in the black communities and in the rural areas.

[Armatus]

but I always get kicked out of class for correcting the teacher about how this is wrong and why it's wrong etc.

[LegioFornicatio]

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980).


Sadly, we have our own Christian equivalent of the Taliban here. They just don't have enough fire-power yet.

[Magister Militum Flavius Aetius]

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there always has been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”

- Isaac Asimov, column in Newsweek (21 January 1980).


Sadly, we have our own Christian equivalent of the Taliban here. They just don't have enough fire-power yet.

Actually he's right. In north and south carolina, along with the surrounding states, there's a group of white, christian, racist, extremists who includer neo-nazis and neo-communists called the Christian Militia. My dad knew an army ranger who's patrol encountered a group of these guys on a training excercize. The Rangers ran off because the Christian militia had like 5 RPGs and heavy machine guns and everything. They hide out in forested areas in the appalachins. Very remote.

[Kitsunegari]

ROFL sounds like they have more firepower than the Taliban per person

[Sicknero]

Going back to the OP, there are several 'academies' in the UK where creationism is taught, and it is a controversial issue.

Academies are schools which have a mixture of public funding and private investment (something like 9/1 respectively), but are independent of Local Authority control. They were introduced in 2000 by the Blair government. In return for their 10% investment, sponsors get to influence course content and teaching methods, as well as the power to appoint governers.

In context of this thread, Sir Peter Vardy has invested in several academies in England and is planning more, and it's in the "Vardy Academies" that creationism is taught as fact.

Earlier this year the government voted to remove public funding from schools that teach creationism (or are even run by creationist groups), but the establishments will continue as long as they can find their own money.

That's the situation as I understand it, I'm happy to be corrected.

[Hanny]

Going back to the OP, there are several 'academies' in the UK where creationism is taught, and it is a controversial issue.

Academies are schools which have a mixture of public funding and private investment (something like 9/1 respectively), but are independent of Local Authority control. They were introduced in 2000 by the Blair government. In return for their 10% investment, sponsors get to influence course content and teaching methods, as well as the power to appoint governers.

In context of this thread, Sir Peter Vardy has invested in several academies in England and is planning more, and it's in the "Vardy Academies" that creationism is taught as fact.

Earlier this year the government voted to remove public funding from schools that teach creationism (or are even run by creationist groups), but the establishments will continue as long as they can find their own money.

That's the situation as I understand it, I'm happy to be corrected.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...lligent-design
Leading scientists and naturalists, including Professor Richard Dawkins and Sir David Attenborough, are claiming a victory over the creationist movement after the government ratified measures that will bar anti-evolution groups from teaching creationism in science classes.

http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-fo...greement-to-ba


Government changes Free School model funding agreement to ban creationist schools

Its taken a while:http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...ionism-schools