The "realm divide" that faced Japan in 1582.

[The_Nord]

You know what would be really cool to see in shogun 2? The events that transpired after Nobunaga was killed in 1582. The main focus of such a campaign would be on Hideyoshi and the other Oda retainers alive. His enemies would be the Oda-clan and the parts of the Oda-clan siding against Hideyoshi and of course Akechi Mitsuhide. Represented by these would be for example Shibata Katsuie would be the Daimyo of Echizen (which would make him the leader of a faction), another would be the Tokugawa clan that supported Nobukatsu, the leader would of course be Ieyasu. Then, if Hideyoshi manages to subdue those "clans", his enemies would be the Hojo in the kanto region, the Shimazu, the chosokabe, and the Negoro warrior monks in Izumi and the warrior monks of Kii. Along with this would be the other historical clans still alive in other parts of japan that Hideyoshi/Any other ambitious warlord could then conquer.

The playable clans in such a campaign would be The Toyotomi, the Oda (under Katsuie's leadership or Nobutada, depending on if you make a different clan altogether for shibata katsuie), the Tokugawa, the Hojo, the Chosokabe, the Shimazu, either of the Kii or Izumi (perhaps as one clan) sohei, the Date-clan, the Mori and any other suitable clans.

The point of the campaign itself is to have a "what if" scenario for what happens after Nobunaga is killed in 1582. Does Akechi Mitsuhide succeed in crushing Hideyoshi and unite the rest of the Oda vassals, does Shibata Katsuie beat Hideyoshi? That's what this campaign will decide.The goal of the campaign will be to eliminate your rivals and conquer/vassalage most of Japan.

If the Sekigahara Campaign mod could be made (no pressure AntonIII ), this can. So if anyone thinks its a good idea well then...

First step on this mod:

-Finding out who controlled which provinces in 1582 after Nobunaga had been killed. Not just the Oda generals, but all the other clans in Japan.
-Figuring out clan relationships at the time, as well as the relationships between the most powerful oda generals.
-Which clans should be playable. The main issue being: Should the focus be on the Oda generals or should the main focus on the Oda generals only be: Hideyoshi, Ieyasu and Mitsuhide, and then having non-oda affiliated clans such as the Shimazu, Chosokabe and Hojo clans playable.
-To what extent should the Mori be in direct control of western Japan?

Okay, some updates regarding the clans and their positions on the map. It may not be 100% historically correct, but I also have to keep balance in mind, if I'm way too far off, feel free to voice your opinions.

-Shibata Katsuie: Echizen and Wakasa, Omi.
-Maeda Toshiie: Kaga and Noto
-Sassa Narimasa: Etchu
-Oda-clan: Mino, Owari and Ise.
-Akechi Mitsuhide: Tamba and Settsu.
-Tokugawa Ieyasu:Mikawa and Totomi.
-Hojo: Ize, Sagami, Musashi and Kozuku (They will start out very weak militarily)
-Mori: Aki and Iwami/Suwo
-The Sohei: Kii and Izumi
-Hashiba Hideyoshi: Harima and Mimasaka
-Ukita: Bizen

*THE ABOVE ARE STILL NOT FINAL*

Let me know what you think!

Okay some updates:

-The name of this mod will be "The Unification Campaign"
-The warrior-monks of this period will be a playable "clan". They represent the last stand of the militant buddhists, they will have no access to ashigaru units and no samurai untis, but relatively cheap naginata and teppo sohei units, and progressively better sohei units with various weapons. They will be a very different and difficult clan to play. They will also take up the ikko religion slot previously taken by the Ikko-Ikki.
-Instead of making an all new Shibata-clan, Shibata Katsuie will be the de facto leader of the old Oda clan, from where he will seek to crush the upstarts Hideyoshi and Mitsuhide and restore Oda control over these rebel vassals.
- Finishing up the positions and clan-relations. The situation of the Mori and their vassals in the west and the ex-oda commanders situation in the central/eastern part of Japan currently taking up most of our time (me and AntonIII that is).

[Akaie]

This is certainly do-able. If you'd want to keep things simple, it may not demand much work compared to what is put into the Seki Campaign. For example, keep the units, buildings, religion, etc the same. The main thing would be factions and their interaction with each other.

One thing I'm interested in: how much detail would you want this campaign to go into? To be honest, if all you want is an alternate scenario, that would be built rather easily. Sure, it'll take a bit of time to polish up, but not THAT much time.

[The_Nord]

Well, the most important thing would be as you say the interaction between clans and the clans themselves. The units would not be radically different from earlier sengoku jidai, although perhaps a greater availability of teppo units and long yari ashigaru. Having the correct position of the clans on the map, the various alliances/animosity between clans elsewhere in japan would be important. Religion should be largley the same, since the sohei/ikko ikki of Kii and Izumi was still alive and kicking, as well as christian daimyo.

Basically, divide the Oda clan into factions representing Toyotomi Hideyoshi, Akechi Mitsuhide, Shibata Katsuie and the sons of Oda Nobunaga (perhaps incorporating them into the factions of shibata katsuie and tokugawa ieyasu) that was still alive and relevant to the political situation. As for other clans, as I said in the OP, the one's most important during and after the conflict within the Oda forces had been settled, such as the Chosokabe, Hojo, Shimazu, Ikko-Ikki/Sohei, Tokugawa-clan, Date-clan (wars in northern Japan/involvement in Odawara Campaign), the Uesugi.

EDIT: Changed Ishida Mitsunari to Akechi Mitsuhide. I always get them mixed up somehow.

[Akaie]

Sounds pretty damn good. I'm having a bit of a break from modding the seki campaign to allow more bug reports to come in. Hows about you lay out more details regarding this campaign for me, and I'll actually put it together? As for the project itself, whatever I mod will ultimately be decided by you.

[The_Nord]

Okay sure, I'll do my best. I'd be happy to take any advice and feel free to complement any suggestions and ideas I come up with.

[GERMANICUS]

Greetings El Nord
I very much like this idea and grin with anticipation that Anton III will lend his formidable modding skills to help bring this campaign concept to fruition.
Do you envision having province infrastructure at a advanced stage ie farms, roads, ports etc. and perhaps some fortresses for the main Daimyo?
+ Rep for promoting diversity and more historical focus to the game!

[The_Nord]

Hi Germanicus. I was just thinking about at what level of advancement the provinces should be. Some would definitively be more advanced than others, especially the Oda/Tokugawa controlled ones. The problem is if they're too advanced from the start, how would you then incorporate a feeling of progress for your clan? Also, would it create inbalance between the clans? In the Sekigahara mod, the Toyotomi and Tokugawa had fifth tier fortresses at the start, but it is up to the player to decide what other buildings would be built in the free slots. I thought that was a really good idea. If you have any idea or suggestion, feel free to voice it here!

EDIT: Updated Op.

[yoshisuke]

Here's a good map, not as detailed as it could be but it's a good start.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Attachment 205532

It could be interesting to play with the Shibata, I think.. And the Uesugi were in the middle of a bloody civil war, maybe it could have a part in thecampaign.

[The_Nord]

Thank you for that map, something doesn't match up with 1582, which would be the starting year of the mod, for example, Araki Murashige was irrelevant by 1582. So who controlled Settsu in 1582? Was it Akechi Mitsuhide? Also, if Akechi Mitsuhide starts out in Kyoto, what would the consequences be if say Hideyoshi took it? Realm divide?

[yoshisuke]

Yes, it doesn't just cover 1582 so everything is not absolutely accurate but it gives a good overall idea.
Maybe Kyoto should be avoided and Mitsuhide put in Settsu to avoid any realm divide.
Or maybe it could be even more interesting with a RD mechanic overhaul. Don't know how but maybe something that gives a bonus in diplomatic relationship with allies but slowly turns the neutral clans to hostile to the player. Something smoother than the vanilla.

[The_Nord]

I'm not sure how moddable realm divide is, I'll direct that question to Anton. And yes, putting Mitsuhide in Settsu might be a better Idea, and having something similiar as the Go-bugyo in the Sekigahara Campaign to represent Kyoto. Again, thanks for the map, it gives me a much better idea for the clan positions.

Another qustion, what about Kai and Shinano? The Takeda were gone at this point, so who should be in charge of those provinces, what about the Sanada? As for the Uesugi, perhaps to simulate the Otate no ran, we could just spawn a rebel army there, something uncomplicated like that?

[yoshisuke]

In 1582 Kai and Shinano were still under control of the Takeda clan until the siege of Takato.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_o...%8D_%281582%29 Then Ieyasu made his move to take control of the provinces wich was done by 1583. But I don't know who ruled for the Tokugawa after that. During the Edo period the Matsudaira had some han in shinano. I'll try to find more detailed info on that.

[The_Nord]

Good, then we can probably have the Takeda in charge of Kai and Shinano, or Kai at the very least. Which provinces should Hideyoshi be control of? Given that he is a major player here he should have atlest 2 or 3 provinces under his control. I'm having a hard time finding concrete info on where his base of operations should be, when Nobunaga was killed, Hideyoshi was besieging Takamatsu Castle in Bitchu province. So the provinces bordering Bitchu to the east or what? Should the Kuroda clan and Ukita clan be vassals of Hideyoshi in their respective provinces or would that mess up the balance to much, should they be included at all?

[yoshisuke]

I think Toyotomi should start with only one province because he had an army but was far from home when Nobunaga got killed and didn't own that much lands, he was not really powerful until he killed Mitsuhide. But he should have Ukita as a vassal. And Kuroda could be general.

[The_Nord]

Yes perhaps that would be more balanced, seeing as you wouldn't be able to easily steamroll every other nearby clan with that setup. Hideyoshi did have to struggle for power after all. Now the question is, which province?

[yoshisuke]

Harima ? And Tango & Tamba to Mitsuhide ?

[The_Nord]

Was that where he was based at the time he was besieging Takamatsu castle, or is that just the best information we have to go on?

[yoshisuke]

If Mimasaka and Bizen were under the control of the Ukita clan, it would make sense that Hideyoshi was based at Harima and went to Takamatsu from there.

[The_Nord]

Yes, Hideyoshi left the Ukita in charge of Mimasaka and Bizen. Hideyoshi, for the sake of the campaign, and so as to not make the Ukita too powerful should have Harima and Mimasaka province, and the Ukita Bizen.

[yoshisuke]

It seems good and balanced to me.