How does your army fight? Post here your favourite tactics, formations, and battles.

[daud.fr]

I've been playing ChiwTW for some time now, and was wondering how do you organise your troops on the battlefield and what tactics do you use on the battlefield. Don't forget to post what kind of results - casualties it normally leads to. Share your experience

[Marcus Scaurus]

Usual RTW formations: infantry in the centre, cavalry on the flanks, missile troops behind the infantry.

[Holger Danske]

Standard Battle Plan:


The shocktroops will be devided in two groups: Flanking and Holding.
Cavalry will flank and hit the enemy, once enemy cavalry is finish, - shocktroops can help with this.
The defensive line will hold its ground not matter what, only a full rout will enable them to brake formation and charge.
Livy troops will support/suppres the enemy.. and, if needed, act as cannonfodder for the enemy.
General will support the main army where it needs it. And if possible follow the cavalry charge.

[alpaca]

My missiles usually stand in front of the army and pull back later. Otherwise I have some spear-armed medium infy in the centre (2 units) and spearmen on the flanks of the main line.
Behind the line there'd be axemen/militia and swordsmen to back up the swordsmen in melee, and on the flanks I like to use a bit of light cav (if available) - one unit each side, and one unit of knights with an additional unit of knights in the centre (often the general) to support either the flanks or cause a break in the enemy lines.

[Marcus Scaurus]

Does anyone have any advise on how to rout knights quickly without suffering heavy casualties. I noticed that in many battles (I've only played with Aragon yet, fought about 10 battles) the knights charge towards my infantry in the centre: in other mods, this is a deadly thing to do, but the medieval knights can decimate even decent infantry with their devastating charge. In the first few battles, I countered them with my infantry, pinning them so my cavalry could do the old hammer-and-anvil trick. The knights didn't break, and killed about two dozen of my troops before fleeing. In my last battle, I attacked them with my own knights, pinning them to allow my infantry to join the fighting. This worked better, but sometimes it takes to long for the infantry to arrive. Does anyone know a better tactic to counter heavy knights?

[Pelican Man]

You could try using armor piercing javelins. That could work.. it could decimate their back, plus, have a cav. charge right after that and then the army deicides it had enough. lol Give that a try, that should do some magic.

[therussian]

This is my typical Byzantine formation

Usually, the spears are Skutatoi, with the thema (taxeis?) spears on either flanks. The cavalry are usually Latinokoi (I have 4 per army), then two levy archers, and the infantry (swords) are usually two units of varangians, though they have never been used before.

[Kor Khan]

Here's my standard setup. It has many variations (I've found that all good strategies tend to be flexible). Nevertheless, it distinguishes between four army roles (five if you include the general). Depending on your individual strategy, you can invest more heavily in one troop type and have less of (or none) of another. I find it good to experiment and also to change your tactic from time to time, so as to be able to try out fun new strategies.

Here are the basics:

The Missile troops tend to go in front of the army at the beginning of a battle and have the goal of damaging the enemy's troops as they approach. Quite often, however, you'll find that the opposing general has exactly the same idea and the result will be an archery duel. This may last for a long time, either until one side's archers have been decimated and get pulled back or destroyed (in both cases, the losing player will generally be forced to attack to prevent his troops from being shot to pieces), or until both sides run out of arrows (in which case the advancing tends to take place on both sides).
There is a reasonably wide choice of archer units, especially for Eastern factions. Generally speaking, the more expensive archers like Trebizond Archers, Saracen Archers and Crossbowmen will be stronger against enemy melee troops, but for the archery duel, the cheap standard levy archers can do just fine. Therefore, it's good to have at least a few of these. Depending on how much damage to the enemy army you expect your archers to do, you can invest in a large force of expensive archers (these should hopefully beat the enemy in an archery duel and be able to inflict significant damage to his troops, you'll have less money for you melee force, though). Or you can just go for a small force of levy archers, just about enough to keep the enemy archers at bay for a while and to use up their arrows.

The front lines consist of regular infantry. These troops tend to be spear-armed and with a good defense and morale value (i.e. able to hold off the enemy for a while). A few examples: Men-at-Arms for Europeans, Skutatoi for the Byzantines or the sword-armed Saracen Infantry for Muslim nations. Thematic infantry and feudal sergeants can also fulfill this function, as long as they're slightly upgraded. Like with the archers, it's up to you how much money you want to invest in defensive infantry. Be aware, however, that (with the possible exception of Saracen infantry) their goal is not to rout the enemy, but to keep him in place for you to flank him.

Behind and/or to the flanks of your regular infantry (sometimes even to the front, so as to cause severe damage to the enemy before the onslaught of your main army) are the irregular infantry. These troops will tend to have a lower defense, but a high attack rate. Often, they will be axe-armed and particularly dangerous towards armoured troops. A few examples are Axemen, Swabian Swordsmen, the Varangian Guard or Ghazi Infantry. Upgraded woodsmen can also do very well in this function. Depending on how good they are at defending (Ghazi Infantry and Woodsmen have quite a low defense rate), you may want to keep these men out of the way of archers and cavalry and only send them in to fight on the flanks.
The puropse of these units is to attack the enemy in weak spots like the flanks or gaps in the line. Depending on the type, I've been known to use them as a general reserve troop as well. It's best to only commit these men when the enemy is engaged, as they tend to be quite vulnerable to attack.

Your final troop type is cavalry. Their function is also to attack at the flanks, as well as to engage enemy cavalry. They don't tend to be able to hold out well in a melee against infantry, though. Some of the lighter cavalry units can be sent against missile troops during the archery duel, so as to turn the tide. Only use cheap horsemen for this, as it can be quite dangerous if it doesn't work out.
Among your cavalry you can also have some horse archers. These are excellent at forcing the enemy to attack, as well as for shooting at enemy foot archers from the flank during the duel (be careful that the enemy archers don't get a clear shot at your HA, as foot archers are stronger in a direct duel). HA can also be used to lure enemy cavalry away from the main action.

As mentioned, I tend to experiment and vary, sometimes trying it with different nations. Otherwise I find that it gets a bit boring and your opponents will get to know your strategy.

[militiaman]

Does anyone have any advise on how to rout knights quickly without suffering heavy casualties.

Because Chivalry has enhanced the RPS effect of unit types (swords beat spears, cav beat swords, spears beat cav) I would suggest two things.
1. Try not to get spear units to fight them. They can hold them for a little line in a defensive guard mode position but you are bound to take heavy casualties after a while. Therefore, with infantry units try to combat them with other swordsmen (particularly ones with good defense) or other non-spear infantry (the religious fanatics are pretty good for this).
2. The ultimate way to destroy them is with cavalry. And the best cavalry to use for the job is some heavily armoured ones such as feudal knights. Even a head on charge should have a lot of impact, and repeat this for maximum effect.

Now as for my own strategy I'll talk about my MP ones as they are much more interesting.

Basically I make these separations between my units:
Skirmish Infantry (archers)
Main Defence Infantry (spearmen)
Aggressive Infantry (swordsmen)
Skirmish Cavalry (horse archers/light cavalry)
Heavy Battle Cavalry (feudal knights)

That's what I usually try to get, and the units in the brackets are mostly generalisations. Also depending on money I may merge or leave out some, such as the Aggressive Infantry and Skirmish Cavalry.
Here's how my overall battle plan works:
Firstly, the army advances to get almost into missile range of the enemy army. Once in range the skirmishers who are in front usually exchange volleys with the enemy's skirmishers. Once that's under way I go about planning the bigger strategy, but also some harrassing moves. If I have horse archers then I will send them near the enemy cavalry or the back of their infantry to annoy them. If I don't have those then I'll usually try to pull off some feints along the battle line at the enemy archers, which usually then provoke the enemy to come out and defend themselves. If successful I usually make one of their archer units rout, which can turn the battle in the skirmish.
From there it depends on how much the enemy is provoked to attack. Sometimes I lure him so much with the archer attacks he'll just brake ranks and do a full on charge. At other times my archers will eliminate his and then move onto his infantry, forcing him to do something. I will sometimes also run out of ammo and then have to plan a main attack on the enemy.
Whatever way it happens the next part is usually similar. Infantry units are usually head on and engaged, but cavalry is flying all over the place to try and flank the enemy. Cavalry may smash into the backs of my infantry but then my cavalry may smash into the back of their cavalry, so it's a very frantic part of the strategy.
Once infantry units become free they are sent to flank others that are engaged or chase after routers. In the end there is a large rout and the battle is over.

[daud.fr]

Wow, everyone's formations seem to be very and very different.

Here is my version of formations - it is universal, works great agaist every faction, and is quite average against almohads/berbers, or any army compiled of missile troops.

Here is a basicly the formation:

There is a line of swordsmen, 5 units of supporting archers, 2 heavy cavalry and 3 generals.
The idea is to force enemy outflank you))). So when an enemy army is approaching, archers are supposed to weaken their center, while all troops hold, waiting for an outflanking attack by enemy cav. Then just before enemy charges, you should counterattack by all your units. Left wing and right wings are supposed to crash enemy outflanking troops, while the center holds, and then surround and rout enemy forces.... Suprisingly it does work in game...
See for yourself.

In game it looks like that:
Front:

From an angle:

and Back:


I decided to play a custom battle: Egyptians vs English.
I don't know why, but i think English are one of the most superior christian factions in the game + their tactics are always nice and challenging.
There are two armies:
Egyptian lead by Captain Daud (the game coincedentally generated my name )- 3 Generals, 10 Saracen Infantry, 5 Saracen Archers, 2 Mamluk Heavy Cavalry.
English lead by Captain Amminos - 1 General, 4 Foot Knights, 8 Men At arms, 3 Archers, and 4 Mounted Feudal Knights.


----> Captain Daud finally positioned his troops

waiting for a heavy English army.

Captain Amminos advanced towards Saracen position from the first sight in disorder, but soon Daud realised that Amminos was simply preparing his Knights to outflank Saracen army.

As soon as the crusader army was in range, saracen archers started to pepper them arrows, weaking their lines.

Amminos decided to attack first. He ordered his heavy, unstoppable mounted knights to crash the Saracen flanks.

But that is what Daud was waiting for. He placed his most brave and strong units on the flanks, and as soon as Knights were close enough they suicidely counter attacked

Those in a first lines were terribly crushed by advancin knights. Saracen unit faced heavy casualties, enemy started to surround them and kill off one after one. But it was nothing more, then a trap. Generals on both wings attacked the stuck knights.

Saracens were waiting for that. Heavy knights with deadly charge, were not maneurable and easily got stuck amongst the saracen lines.

Meanwhile Wing generals were fighting off the crusader heavy cavalry, Captain Daud launched full scale attack by his center. Amminos, and his troops were stunned - that wasnot something that they have been preparing for.

On the right flank things were not getting better, another Feudal Knights unit counter attacked by Saracen unit.

Situation was becoming critical. English center was desperately trying to break through Saracen lines, but their troops encouraged by their general were feroucesly defending.
At the same time, both of Amminos Cavalry units were getting killed of. The last hope was on the Knights that he was keeping until the last moment in reserve.

And it was about the right time for them to attack because the knights, could not hold Saracen counter attack anymore. They've lost over half of their men and started to flee.

Encouraged by the success of their comrads and their General, Saracen pressed heavily agains Amminos troops in the center of the battle.

Aminnos finally decided to use his reserves, but that was too late. As soon as Saracens finished off the first two units of the Knights they attacked the reserves, before Knight could deliver their deadly charge. One of the units was really caught of guard

while the other one, met Saracen organised and in proper formation:

Left crusader wing started to flee....

And thanks to the encoragements of their Brave Captain, other troops continued to fight, and were heroically holding off Advancing Saracen hordes

Now right flank of Enlish army started to flee:

Suddenly a mircale occured - one of the troops flied over saracens and for some moments caused panick amongst their ranks,

But when they saw how they comrads defeated left flank of crusaders and started to exterminate these infidels, they cleared their hearts from the pressed against the infidels againt

and their left flank joined them by surrounding crusaders from the left.

English continued to defend from heavy Saracen attacks, but when they saw how they were getting surrounded now from all the sidis, they all panicked and started to rout.

That's it the battle was won. Saracen were in full triumph.

And few moments later on of Daud's generals managed to capture Captain Amminos - that was a great victory. Not only enemy army was defeated, but also its commander was captured.

....so many brave soldiers died.

Results:

[daud.fr]

As you can see this formation is quite effective against heavy armored armies. Though one can argue that i exploited the spears VS swords, since men at arms are spearmen and Saracen inf are swordsman. But this is not true. AI played that battle well, he send his heavy troops in front. So the first lines of english army were composed of heavy foot knights, which were causing heavy casualties for saracen. Just thanks to the Saracen Wings, which managed with a great effort to crush Mounted Knights and started to outlank english, Saracen center managed to rout the English. Notice the casualties ~1 to 10. To be honest i thought that i am gonna lose)).

[Sword of Brutus]

Can someone show me an effective offense formations?

[militiaman]

To keep the discussion going I'll mention some faults with daud's formation. This is only in MP though, in SP I would imagine that the AI is too stupid to realise some of these or carry them out.

I would deploy my archers in front and wait for your army to march forward. Your infantry would come in range and my archers would shoot, forcing you to make a decision: launch a very early attack or move your archers out. If you launch an attack I can prepare my defence which is usually much easier. If you move your archers forward I get that advantage of inflicting more casualties, which would ultimately lead me to win an archer battle unless outnumbered.
Going on from this choice, I would then try and move my lighter cavalry in skirmishes with your archers, and if I was using an eastern army HA's would go well against your flanks.

You also lack any spearmen, so cavalry would have a really good effect on your army.

[Ciaran S]

Not to mention that a formation as that works only with a faction that actually has swordsmen - that rules all the northern European ones out, as there´s no way to be able to recruit (and sustain) the required number of Feudal Foot Knights. It could work with the Axemen the Germans (and perhaps some other factions, too) get.

[LordSaradain]

I use only knights. A charge from these guys will eventually break anything.

[Kor Khan]

I know that knights need to be nerfed, and that a simple charge from an all-cav army can beat anything, but... isn't it a bit boring, when your sole strategy consists of spamming knights? Anyway, doesn't it cost tons of money to recruit and sustain that kind of army?

[Fondor_Yards]

For your normal European nation, I like to get 4 Feudal Foot Knights, 3 Feudal Sergents, and 3 Men-At-Arms. I put them all in one line, in very deep lines at least 8-12 thick. This so far has repeled everything thrown at it, knight's don't do jack since the formations are so thick. I put my archers infront of this, normaly like 3 levy's and 3 crossbows. The stupid AI normaly sends stuff at me 1 or 2 units at a time. This let's me send all fire on them. That plus the very deep infantry seems to make Men-At-Arms and even Feudal Knights break and run. I've had them charge me, run right through my archers before they can get back, and slam into my infantry wall and just rout after 10 seconds. If the enemy charge all at once my inf is good enough to beat them or hold them down for my Knights to hit them in the flanks or rear and boom instant rout. I play on H/H and it hasn't failed me yet even once when I had to 3 1000 man armies at once.

[Kor Khan]

Remember: Strategies that work well against the AI may be shattered to smithereens in multiplayer. If any of you guys fancy a challenge, I suggest you give it a go. Our MP forum is here, btw.

http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...?showforum=135

[Shadow_Imperator]

For your normal European nation, I like to get 4 Feudal Foot Knights, 3 Feudal Sergents, and 3 Men-At-Arms. I put them all in one line, in very deep lines at least 8-12 thick. This so far has repeled everything thrown at it, knight's don't do jack since the formations are so thick. I put my archers infront of this, normaly like 3 levy's and 3 crossbows. The stupid AI normaly sends stuff at me 1 or 2 units at a time. This let's me send all fire on them. That plus the very deep infantry seems to make Men-At-Arms and even Feudal Knights break and run. I've had them charge me, run right through my archers before they can get back, and slam into my infantry wall and just rout after 10 seconds. If the enemy charge all at once my inf is good enough to beat them or hold them down for my Knights to hit them in the flanks or rear and boom instant rout. I play on H/H and it hasn't failed me yet even once when I had to 3 1000 man armies at once.

You haven't been flanked yet?

[LordSaradain]

I know that knights need to be nerfed, and that a simple charge from an all-cav army can beat anything, but... isn't it a bit boring, when your sole strategy consists of spamming knights? Anyway, doesn't it cost tons of money to recruit and sustain that kind of army?

Yep, its very expensive but really pays off in the end, after you've butchered and pillaged a couple of towns.