I believe it's time we called a truce.

[leeho730]

I think "rip us off" was maybe the wrong words but like you said they need to make money.

Every company is doing this so i cannot blame CA, having just dealt with "dice" and there sell out to the console croud im just worried about the future.

Skyrim is open to mods and i would definately buy that game to own because of that, so im not so sure why they want 1.99 dlc, but think about it 1.99x 150+k is not small money.

As long as the product is good and attention to details are good i dont mind paying more.

They should not be scared of mods.

Exactly. Beth soft will typically sell DLCs for 10 bucks so for skyrim they sold 10 million copies at least and that was December.

So let's say five millions will buy DLCs 10 * 5,000,000. And they typically release 5 such DLCs so the number becomes rather huge. Epic WIN! They don't need to sell tiny DLCs like CA do. In the end they charge 50 bucks for all DLCs full price and see how loyal fans are... Even if only one fifth of the users buy at full price the profit wil still be epic. Bigger cake, bigger share and each time they release new game the cake gets bigger.

It is far more important to create huge loyal fan base rather than try to sell tiny piece DLCs. CA's tactics are too short sighted in my opinion. And no I wouldn't have bought skyrim if skyrim was not mod friendly. In fact I mod myself. And nexus is stronger than ever in fact Beth partnered with nexus for systematically releasing mods through steam works. It's like CA and TWC are having partnership and downloading mod is very easy since it can be managed through steam while all the support goes to TWC. TWC will have increased traffic so more income from ads. WIN/WIN if you ask me.

But that's just my opinion.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

@ Huberto: See, thats what Im talking about. We're expecting them to always be serious and answer all our questions all the time, as if we were entitled to answers.


They dont HAVE to come here. They CHOOSE to come here. If they want to spend their time joking around with the fans, who are we to tell them they cant do that?

We're all supposed to be on the same side here. It's not Us versus CA. It's a bunch of people who love Total War coming together, and some people from CA decided to come chill with us.


Or, it should be.

[Huberto]

The problem is that they had never created mod tools for any game and the community had to create its own tools sometimes (ala Med 2). Now that the ETW and on games are harder and harder to mod, the tools from them are more in demand (and necessary) but the problem is how can they complete their game on time and on a specific budget as before while taking time and resources to create complicated tools?

Perhaps expansion of CA is necessary (as they are doing) to allow some employees to work on such tools while not impeding game development. I think we will see that in the near future, but what do I know.

Three things

1.) Mod tools or at the very least a "mod development package" was promised for ETW probably in recognition of the complexity of Warscape, but it was never delivered.

2.) CA will create tools for us when they believe it's in their interests to do so. How do we encourage them? All the more because as you point out (their argument) they say they don't have the time or the budget to create tools.

3.) I really believed that they were sincere last summer when they said they were going to start supporting mods. In retrospect I think it was a gesture done simply because the unit editor wasn't delivered, and Jack and Craig may have gotten out ahead of the bosses and lost an internal battle on this. We've heard nothing whatsoever on this front for so long it seems clear that the only thing that's changed is they've stopped saying they will do something.

They dont HAVE to come here. They CHOOSE to come here.

It's in their interest to come here. They're not "chilling" with us. They don't come here to have a laugh although it's helpful to show that they can laugh. Your voice matters.

[Lazarus]

Oh Im almost certain we'll see mod tools. We just have to have patience.

Wouldn't it be hilarious if that was the only reason CA went back to Shogun 2? As an excuse to bombard us with loading screens about patience?

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Wouldn't it be hilarious if that was the only reason CA went back to Shogun 2? As an excuse to bombard us with loading screens about patience?

If the loading screens contain secret messages, then what the hell do those 50,000 "Death Poems" mean!?!?!?

[EmperorBatman999]

If the loading screens contain secret messages, then what the hell do those 50,000 "Death Poems" mean!?!?!?

Yea, those Death Poems weren't the most motivating things ever.

[Drtad]

Three things

1.) Mod tools or at the very least a "mod development package" was promised for ETW probably in recognition of the complexity of Warscape, but it was never delivered.

They obviously made a miscalculation of Warscape's complexity and in what they could do with an allotted amount of time.

2.) CA will create tools for us when they believe it's in their interests to do so. How do we encourage them? All the more because as you point out (their argument) they say they don't have the time or the budget to create tools.

I don't think claiming to be boycotting their games until they create mod tools is the right thing to do. I use the word claim since we're on an internet forum and who knows what people are actually doing.

There was a topic previously about CA hiring new employees (and someone to develop certain "tools"). I think once they can expand they will provide the desired tools. At least I think so, I prefer not to make decisive statements when I don't have complete knowledge of something.

3.) I really believed that they were sincere last summer when they said they were going to start supporting mods. In retrospect I think it was a gesture done simply because the unit editor wasn't delivered, and Jack and Craig may have gotten out ahead of the bosses and lost an internal battle on this. We've heard nothing whatsoever on this front for so long it seems clear that the only change is they've stopped saying they will do something.

They haven't had notices about bugfixing for multiplayer desyncs but as Craig's recent post in another thread they are aware of it and are working on it. I think what you're asking for here is some sort of periodic update on mod tool development specifically, and I suppose that's reasonable.

I don't think it's true that they are deliberately handicapping mods. It just doesn't make any sense to me that they would do that, that's all.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Exactly. That would be stupid!

[Huberto]

I don't think it's true that they are deliberately handicapping mods. It just doesn't make any sense to me that they would do that, that's all.

Well you've heard all the theories and so have I. I can think of a lot of ways they could have easily helped but didn't...

I am personally not buying FotS but an organized boycott is silly because there isn't enough passion on the issue and it would divide the community anyway. Outcry is key however. It is an issue that needs to be kept front and center in our discussions here and with CA.

No they're not deliberately handicapping mods, only in the sense that they will not contribute any labor whatsoever to support them

Unless you know something I don't....
----------------

Oh and one other thing. CA/SEGA are 100% in control of their allotted time. If they say they couldn't do this or that because they ran out of time, it was because they decided they would run out of time.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Well, that's your opinion. I for one think you will be missing out on whatever new advancements they make.

[EmperorBatman999]

It isn't an issue though, you're making it one.

We don't need mod tools, for the most part. Really all that is needed is a map tool, for the rest we've figured out.

Look at the works done without official tools, like The Great War or the Zulu mod or the Roman mod in development.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

It isn't an issue though, you're making it one.

We don't need mod tools, for the most part. Really all that is needed is a map tool, for the rest we've figured out.

Look at the works done without official tools, like The Great War or the Zulu mod or the Roman mod in development.

Excatly. Mods will happen eventually. Even if we dont have tools.

[Drtad]

No they're not deliberately handicapping mods, only in the sense that they will not contribute any labor whatsoever to support them

Unless you know something I don't....

They released certain tables for Napoleon some time ago. That is infinitely more than what they had done before, since there hadn't been anything done prior to that (I mean Rome and Medieval 2). They will do more in the near future, I'm sure. I don't think it's practical for them to not do so, but I also don't expect to hear an update until they're close to a breakthrough since the outcry about the promised uniform editor and such things. The fact they couldn't deliver on that doesn't mean they'll never do anything. It doesn't make sense to me that they would.

[Huberto]

Well, that's your opinion. I for one think you will be missing out on whatever new advancements they make.

If FotS is that revolutionary, I'll buy it during a Steam sale. If CA/SEGA decide to support mods I'll pre-order it.

We don't need mod tools, for the most part. Really all that is needed is a map tool, for the rest we've figured out.

Look at the works done without official tools, like The Great War or the Zulu mod or the Roman mod in development.

How do you do the Zulu Mod without being able to change the map? Can you build new structures? Model terrain so you can have trenches for the Great War? I'd love me some trenches for ETW fort battles!

[Lazarus]

No they're not deliberately handicapping mods, only in the sense that they will not contribute any labor whatsoever to support them

You can't say that with certainty - in fact, as has been said, there's reason to believe they're expanding their office just to accommodate extra staff TO work on mod tools.

Oh and one other thing. CA/SEGA are 100% in control of their allotted time. If they say they couldn't do this or that because they ran out of time, it was because they decided they would run out of time.

Fixed.
I'll try and illustrate development share for you.

Sega: 100% control
CA: what's left.

Give or take about 10%.

You have to remember, CA is owned by Sega. Think of it as Sega determines if all the people at CA have a job tomorrow or not.

Also, just checking CA's site, they've got a couple of positions for tool programmers advertised... This bodes well for our future, I think.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Tool Programmers?

Either CA is working on mod tools, or they've decided to expand into the automatic constuction business.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Why?

Empire is still a mess, and the only reason I'm even on these forums (Total War section of it that is) is because on their forums I'd get banned (was, in fact) for the simplest of criticisms. Not by them perhaps, but the fact they wouldn't moderate their moderators was disturbing.

So long as Empire remains the broken piece of crap that it is, and not attempt is even tried to admitting Empire was a mess, I'll have a grudge against CA. Not to the point of biased hate as I'm sure so many would like to try and accuse me of, but enough that I'll look with caution at anything they say. They promised and hinted to a lot in Empire that just wasn't there, hell it was so bad there's even an unencyclopedia article on it. Yet they continue on with their policies that caused that, continue to use DLC as a way to squeeze out extra dough despite the fact they could have had the content in the game to begin with (I mean blood for Christ's sake, and oh yes, I know, "poor little kiddies wouldn't be able to get the game , but to charge us money for it? Oh, because then they couldn't avoid the ranking? MAKE IT WORTH A PENNY IF NEED BE).

Also I was not aware war was ever declared, so why is there need of any truce? And they do not "hang out" on these forums with us, they pop in, say a few statements, and disappear.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

They try to visit us, then. That's more than most companies do.


And, honestly, I dont see whats so bd with Empire. I got it when it came out, but couldnt play it on my computer for a long time, so when I finally instaled it, it was patched to it's most recent edition. And it's one of my favorite Total War games yet.

[Huberto]

Tool Programmers?

Either CA is working on mod tools, or they've decided to expand into the automatic constuction business.

I would say it's likely for their own internal tools, which they have spoken about before.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

I dont know..... Im still betting on the Automatic construction one, myself.