A Steam Workshop for Total War?

[BURNY26]

I am one of the proud owners of a Skyrim copy, which ofcourse uses the steamplatform. Recently I've noticed that that there has been a 'workshop'function added to Skyrim.
What it does is quite elegant and simple. Users who own a copy can browse through hundreds of mods for skyrim modifying their own gaming experience
by subscribing to the respective mods. The next time Skyrim boots ,all mods are automatically installed and you are ready to go , instead of going through the usual hassle of pointing files to the correct
directories. It is really a quite interesting medium, which increases ofcourse the awareness of mods.

Now it got me thinking ,wouldn't it be quite interesting to have the same thing for all the Total War games?

If someone should put this proposal up on the steamplatform ,in my opinion, it should be the TWC community(more specific its hex) in cooperation with CA. Because our site ,represents
,as you all know, THE TW modding community. Though TWC itself doesn't make mods ,but the respective modteams ,we can't put the mods up there ourselves, but we could
serve as an intermediairy part. By for example, telling modteams ,there is such an option and helping them setting up the proper filefolders to make this happen, or giving al the files to Steam after having received permissions.
If Steam wants to have something changed in the way something happens, an announcement on TWC could reach the respective teams. The communication would also run a lot smoother if there are several 'fixed' contacts between Steam and TWC.


It is very likely that Steam won't meet us in our request ,but there is no harm in trying I suppose. Especially if it would bring great benefits ,such as
easily steaminstalled mods; more publicity for TWC and all the modteams ;an increase in modder presence on TWC and mods being safeguarded from 'vanishing' uploadingsites.



This is just a draft of my thoughts, There are ofcourse a lot of holes in my idea ,but please give me your two cents to make it make more sense!


EDIT 1 ,since post 4: Maybe create some sort of comittee to filter out illegit mods ,who use copyrighted material? And help modding teams make a 100 percent legit mod ?

EDIT 2 ,since post 10: ToonTotalWar proposes a third party server to upload mods to in case the Steamoption fails or doesn't want to host mods on its own servers.

EDIT 3 ,since post 13: GED replied

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I have looked into how this works. Basically whoever the game dev is (in this case CA) has to do a bunch of work on their end to support it, and there are only two developers currently on that list.

I am also not sure I would use Steam for this if I was still modding because of their Contribution Agreement. Basically you sign over all rights to whatever you create, and authorize them to sell it. Each contributor will have to submit tax information and all kinds of other stuff. I also doubt if they will accept submissions from someone below the age of 18 as that is the age required to enter into a legal agreement like this.

This isnt going to happen. There are already a ton of servers out there we can rent space on and we actually own 3 of our own servers we could use for this. Its not a matter of space, its a matter of bandwidth.

If CA wanted to do something like this, we would certainly support it.
But we would not be involved with the management of it. Valve already has their own system completely in place. I suspect they charge the game devs a substantial fee to cover their costs, which is why there are not many companies doing this through Steam.

--> Steam is out of the question


Final Edit , GED has reopened the vault project. A storage for mods ,not a downloadmirror.http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1763

[MorganH.]

''If possible'' a great idea,especially because the fileupload sites are dropping like flies these days.

Maybe the TWC Hex,if they like the idea,should contact CA (like Lusted or Graig) and ask them about a possible ''workshop function'' to put down TW Mods through Steam for TW games (and if possible retrospective as well)

[MasterBigAb]

I like the idea nd i woudl like to say something simmilar like Morgan.
"If possible" - which ofc will be the greatest problem, not only the theoretically possibility but also regarding license/copyright/money all an issue....so I'd say no harm in trying

[BURNY26]

I like the idea nd i woudl like to say something simmilar like Morgan.
"If possible" - which ofc will be the greatest problem, not only the theoretically possibility but also regarding license/copyright/money all an issue....so I'd say no harm in trying

Maybe ,some high ranking TWC members and volunteers should help filtering out the legit ones? Seeing the immense amount of mods present , it seems only natural that legit ones exist?

[ToonTotalWar]

Yes I agree it's time CA buckle up and start working with us modders as here soon there will be no sites to use for downloads and where will that leave us modders and especially CA with revenues to achieve as a business!

Count me in on this guys! I just hope CA will cooperate though

[Bolkonsky]

I think it'd be sweet, but it's probably CA/SEGA's move.

[ToonTotalWar]

I can confirm that there is a server available through one of my contacts that can host all of the mods here on TWC! There is a cost to do this and I am willing to contribute to this cost!

Now we need hex to start contacting CA with our proposals and what Is the best way forward for all of us to work together on this potential problem that is going to happen sooner than later!

EDIT: Have sent PM personally to CA to discuss further

[BURNY26]

I can confirm that there is a server available through one of my contacts that can host all of the mods here on TWC! There is a cost to do this and I am willing to contribute to this cost!

Now we need hex to start contacting CA with our proposals and what Is the best way forward for all of us to work together on this potential problem that is going to happen sooner than later!

EDIT: Have sent PM personally to CA to discuss further

If the Steamsolution fails ,that might be a different option. If Steam accepts however ,they will host it on their own servers , I am sure.

[ToonTotalWar]

If the Steamsolution fails ,that might be a different option. If Steam accepts however ,they will host it on their own servers , I am sure.

I agree, lets see what happens

[GrnEyedDvl]

Now it got me thinking ,wouldn't it be quite interesting to have the same thing for all the Total War games?

I have looked into how this works. Basically whoever the game dev is (in this case CA) has to do a bunch of work on their end to support it, and there are only two developers currently on that list.

I am also not sure I would use Steam for this if I was still modding because of their Contribution Agreement. Basically you sign over all rights to whatever you create, and authorize them to sell it. Each contributor will have to submit tax information and all kinds of other stuff. I also doubt if they will accept submissions from someone below the age of 18 as that is the age required to enter into a legal agreement like this.

EDIT 2 ,since post 10: ToonTotalWar proposes a third party server to upload mods to in case the Steamoption fails or doesn't want to host mods on its own servers.

This isnt going to happen. There are already a ton of servers out there we can rent space on and we actually own 3 of our own servers we could use for this. Its not a matter of space, its a matter of bandwidth.



If CA wanted to do something like this, we would certainly support it.
But we would not be involved with the management of it. Valve already has their own system completely in place. I suspect they charge the game devs a substantial fee to cover their costs, which is why there are not many companies doing this through Steam.

[BURNY26]

I have looked into how this works. Basically whoever the game dev is (in this case CA) has to do a bunch of work on their end to support it, and there are only two developers currently on that list.

I am also not sure I would use Steam for this if I was still modding because of their Contribution Agreement. Basically you sign over all rights to whatever you create, and authorize them to sell it. Each contributor will have to submit tax information and all kinds of other stuff. I also doubt if they will accept submissions from someone below the age of 18 as that is the age required to enter into a legal agreement like this.



This isnt going to happen. There are already a ton of servers out there we can rent space on and we actually own 3 of our own servers we could use for this. Its not a matter of space, its a matter of bandwidth.



If CA wanted to do something like this, we would certainly support it.
But we would not be involved with the management of it. Valve already has their own system completely in place. I suspect they charge the game devs a substantial fee to cover their costs, which is why there are not many companies doing this through Steam.

I read the agreement and was surpised that they could sell it for money if they wanted to.

Clear enough answer though.
If all mods can be placed on TWC servers ,where are they (as in when can we eventually use them )?How can the bandwith be largened? And could it be possible to have a same working system as on Steam? That is ,subscribe to a mod and it is automatically installed?

[ToonTotalWar]

I read the agreement and was surpised that they could sell it for money if they wanted to.

Clear enough answer though.
If all mods can be placed on TWC servers ,where are they (as in when can we eventually use them )?How can the bandwith be largened? And could it be possible to have a same working system as on Steam? That is ,subscribe to a mod and it is automatically installed?

I think the option of having the mods in a central area to download in first and foremost in my opinion is the most important as trying to find sites to upload is a nightmare! and in my opinion been able to upload to TWC is the best option prioviding we can get round the bandwith problem.

[Legio]

Sounds like a fine idea. If CA get behind this I will as well.

[ToonTotalWar]

I think even without the Steam option we need to consider saving the great mods that we have here on TWC!! I cannot think what life will be like without RS2, TATW, TAR mod (I had to mention one of my mods!! lol!) the server where all mods can be uploaded and downloaded is a major priority in my opinion!

[Geronimo2006]

I second this proposal.

[ToonTotalWar]

GrnEyedDvl - Ah that sounds good so if you got servers big enough to store mods, we can potentially direct all mods to upload on TWC now? as the limit is just 50.00MB. So explain a bit more on this Bandwith issue? what is the problem exactly and can it be rectified?

For me this is a nightmare as I have already had to move mods to other upload sites because of all the SOPA issues! all I want now is to upload my mods to a server to facilitate all the downloads as I cannot be doing this changing every week to another upload site! I already have a number of mods that are inactive due to the lack of upload sites that are available right now.

I am sure there are many other modders out there with same problems that I am experiencing etc..

Thanks

[GrnEyedDvl]

GrnEyedDvl - Ah that sounds good so if you got servers big enough to store mods, we can potentially direct all mods to upload on TWC now? as the limit is just 50.00MB.

Its 100 megs, and not all mods will not be stored on TWC servers anytime in the near future. Probably never.

So explain a bit more on this Bandwith issue? what is the problem exactly and can it be rectified?

Its money, pure and simple.

I dont think most people have a clue how much bandwidth something like this uses, even though I have spelled it out several times in numerous threads. They just do not grasp the scale of how much traffic we are talking about. For instance, the TWC servers process 100-175 requests per second, and that isnt counting downloads. To do this we use 12-15 Mbps of bandwidth.

1 mbps converted to gigabytes is about 320 gigs of data transfer.

So normal site traffic uses between 3800 and 4800 gigs of info transferred every month. For this we are paying about $700, thats $50 per Mbps plus rack space.

Apply a big mod to that. A while back Darth and the RTR guys posted some numbers. I am working from memory here so guys feel free to correct me if I got your numbers wrong. I believe Darth said he had 250,000 downloads on one file sharing service and over 100,000 on another, and that file is 2.5 gigs. RTR has very similar stats.

250,000 * 2.5 gigs = 625,000 gigs of transfer. Divide that by 320 to get Mbps and we get 1953. Multiply that by our bandwidth cost and its $97,656 in the 2+ years that file has been on the site.

Or if we use a Content Delivery Network, such as RackSpace.com they charge 15 cents per gig of data transferred per month. 625,000 gigs * .15 = $93,750 over the life of that file.

Clouds Across Europe by Zeph has 365,891 downloads from the TWC link alone, and is 142 megs in size. That is 51,956,522 megs of traffic /1024 = 50,738 gigs of data transfer. Multiply that by 15 cents and its $7,600 since April of 07.

Nobody except Sim and I (perhaps Squid since he has been involved with some of those discussions recently) really understands the scale of how much data transfer is involved here. I know it sounds easy to just say "Host the files on TWC" but its completely unrealistic. I have only posted numbers for 2 of the files on TWC, and we have thousands.

These huge bandwidth costs could never be covered by TWC. This is why every "free" download site you have ever been to is absolutely covered with advertisements.

[DARTH VADER]

It would be perfect if this was made possible in the future. Of course I support.

[Tango12345]

You would even agree to this Darth?:

Basically you sign over all rights to whatever you create, and authorize them to sell it. Each contributor will have to submit tax information and all kinds of other stuff.

I would not.

[DARTH VADER]

♔Tango12345♔
Well I believe that I would agree for a fee...

GrnEyedDvl
These numbers are impressive... my files are hosted to other sites but I feel akward by reading this. It means that either these hosts are broke because of me or they need to hand me some good money as commision.
But I believe for a digital downloading business like Steam, hosting files would be a lot cheaper and mods would not cost as much as they would add for them valuable traffic.