Why is the standard workday 8 instead of 6 hours?

[Ulyaoth]

Exactly, companies would simply produce less and charge more as efficiency went down. Even if they did hire more to keep production up efficiency would obviously still suffer besides companies having to train and pay double the workforce then and prices still go up.

[Denny Crane!]

Each employee carries costs over and above wage per hour or salary I do wonder if people realise how large and onerous those costs can be? If you've never worked in a managerial or hr capacity it would probably shock you

[Ulyaoth]

People would rather just think companies are evil and don't pay or hire enough ever.

[xcorps]

Each employee carries costs over and above wage per hour or salary I do wonder if people realise how large and onerous those costs can be? If you've never worked in a managerial or hr capacity it would probably shock you

And even if they did know, would they be willing to be more productive? I doubt it.

[Rolling Thunder]

Each employee carries costs over and above wage per hour or salary I do wonder if people realise how large and onerous those costs can be? If you've never worked in a managerial or hr capacity it would probably shock you

Being an aspiring entrepreneur, I did some research.

I was mildly horrified and resolved to depend as much as possible on soulless automata.

[Condottiere 40K]

Until the Cylons decide they have souls and form unions.

[Phier]

And even if they did know, would they be willing to be more productive? I doubt it.

Actually if you wanted to change the system do two things.

Make the average worker write a check those those costs.
Remove withholding's and make the worker pay the IRS in one lump sum.

Tax revolution, instantly.

[xcorps]

The welfare system would instantly crumble under the weight of people who could no longer get refunds on tax they didn't pay.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Actually the extra-wage costs of the workers should be deduced from both the worker's and the manager's paycheck on a 50%/50% basis.

But more importantly what are these costs that you bourgeois so fiercely complain about?

[Rolling Thunder]

But more importantly what are these costs that you bourgeois so fiercely complain about?

Let's see:

Training cost (You have to pay someone for the time you break them into the job - which is usually 1-2 days wages).
National insurance cost/payroll tax: You have to contribute not only their wage, but also towards an additional government fund for their retirement.
Sick/Holiday pay.
Pilferage costs: Some employees will steal. This is particularly endemic to construction projects.
Health and safety costs: You, as an employer, at no point wish to be even possibly liable for payments for negligence in regards to workplace safety.
Managerial costs: Employees tend to require other employees to manage them.

[Claudius Gothicus]

Let's see:

Training cost (You have to pay someone for the time you break them into the job - which is usually 1-2 days wages).
National insurance cost/payroll tax: You have to contribute not only their wage, but also towards an additional government fund for their retirement.
Sick/Holiday pay.
Pilferage costs: Some employees will steal. This is particularly endemic to construction projects.
Health and safety costs: You, as an employer, at no point wish to be even possibly liable for payments for negligence in regards to workplace safety.
Managerial costs: Employees tend to require other employees to manage them.

Ok, I see. Payroll, insurance and safety costs should be deduced from both on an equal basis.

Pilferage is part of the inventment, there's nothing I can really think about in there that wouldn't anger the employees if you forced them to pay in advancement.

Managerial is understandable once a company gets large enough for the actual owner's ability to manage is surpassed.

Safety and Health is pretty clear that it's on the employers part.

[Éorl]

Because its a lot more cool and fun than subsistence living.

While there are problems with society in this regard, that doesn't mean its not superior to a more traditional life where starvation was always a possibility and the idea of retirement meant death.

Interestingly enough, employment is a very vague term today, since the number of employees with a contract without an expirement day has dropped drastically in the past 20 years.

The situation here in Germany is like this:

You get a contract limited to half a year or 1 year after your half year probation time. After that, they can give you another contract with a time limit of half a year or 1 year. After that, they have to give you a contract without a time limit. But you won't get it. I spent the past 10 years like that - after a maximum of two years with limited contracts, it always was: "Oh, we are very happy with your work, but for (insert lame excuse) reasons we currently cannot employ anyone with a contract that is not limited. I know well-educated doctors and lawyers and architects who suffer from the same.

That's good for the employers - flexible fluctuation of employees the number of which can be fixed to match the workload etc. that. The result is this: Me, and many, many others now say: Okay, I know I have to search for a new job in two years - so why should I invest anything at all at my current job? Time? Skill? Training? No, I don't, and I can only advise others to do likewise (and we are becoming legion!). So, I do the minimum at work to draw out my contracts for two years and milk the most money from my employer with investing the least effort before I have to move on.

[Phier]

Actually the extra-wage costs of the workers should be deduced from both the worker's and the manager's paycheck on a 50%/50% basis.

I'm not sure what this means. EVERY cost in my business is deducted from my paycheck. So right now its 100% of these costs.

Hell I fired ONE person, 3 years ago and my state is still putting me in the 8% unemployment pay out bracket as if I fired people constantly.

Interestingly enough, employment is a very vague term today, since the number of employees with a contract without an expirement day has dropped drastically in the past 20 years.

The situation here in Germany is like this:

You get a contract limited to half a year or 1 year after your half year probation time. After that, they can give you another contract with a time limit of half a year or 1 year. After that, they have to give you a contract without a time limit. But you won't get it. I spent the past 10 years like that - after a maximum of two years with limited contracts, it always was: "Oh, we are very happy with your work, but for (insert lame excuse) reasons we currently cannot employ anyone with a contract that is not limited. I know well-educated doctors and lawyers and architects who suffer from the same.

That's good for the employers - flexible fluctuation of employees the number of which can be fixed to match the workload etc. that. The result is this: Me, and many, many others now say: Okay, I know I have to search for a new job in two years - so why should I invest anything at all at my current job? Time? Skill? Training? No, I don't, and I can only advise others to do likewise (and we are becoming legion!). So, I do the minimum at work to draw out my contracts for two years and milk the most money from my employer with investing the least effort before I have to move on.

Well I can't say I know German employment packages. I only hire long term because stability is what I need.

[Éorl]

I only hire long term because stability is what I need.

That's my point - long-term thinking, but that is rare nowadays...

[Kanaric]

That's my point - long-term thinking, but that is rare nowadays...

All lot of fields require it

[Claudius Gothicus]

I'm not sure what this means. EVERY cost in my business is deducted from my paycheck. So right now its 100% of these costs.

It's an expression of ''how things should work'' not a statement regarding ''how they actually work''.

[Rolling Thunder]

Ok, I see. Payroll, insurance and safety costs should be deduced from both on an equal basis.

They are. Except, of course, when employing people on minimum wage - where you can't deduct these costs from the wage. The problem with all these is that they artificially raise the cost of labour, which leads to unemployment (as employers either have to cut hours or the number of people employed)

[Thorn777]

Good to see neo-liberal economics textbook theory is still alive and kicking. Will it be around as long as entrepeneurs complaining is around?

[Denny Crane!]

Good to see neo-liberal economics textbook theory is still alive and kicking. Will it be around as long as entrepeneurs complaining is around?

Is it still textbook theory when I've personally experienced it ins business I've ran, I know commie socialist theory hates first hand experience but there it is...

[Rolling Thunder]

Good to see neo-liberal economics textbook theory is still alive and kicking. Will it be around as long as entrepeneurs complaining is around?

Opponents use simple logic.

Invoke stupid buzzwords like "neo-liberal" and accuse your opponents of arguing from a textbook. Provide no other arguments.

???

Lose argument.