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Thread: Unit training.

  1. #1

    Default Unit training.

    I dont know about the rest of you but the inability to train men outside of specific regions is irritating me in my latest dwarf run.

    Im on VH/VH and im about 100 turns in the far left area i only hold 2 regions which i hold just because 1 is between the main goblin area and the free people's.
    Its been besieged 71 times and ive held every time with a force of about 600 dwarfs and 200 hireling archers.
    But its becoming a nightmare im fighting 3-4 stacks at a time which in itself isnt hard since ive got stone walls so im bottling them up and butchering them with by this stage gold weapon and gold armor men with gold chevrons but i then have to bring in new dwarf units from about 5 turns walking distance to replace the men ive lost and its becoming highly ineffective considering im facing these stacks every 2-3 turns.

    Then my main area im expanding fine but i cant use dwarfs to guard new territory so im having to use about 4 sellsword axes 6-8 hireling spears 5 hireling archers 2 hireling cavalry and 1 general in each to hold a city with wooden wall and yet i could do the same job with 5-6 units of dwarfs.

    I understand the point of only training them in those settlements but given how far ive expanded im looking at 8-9 turns just to bring 1 new dwarf defense force up to new city's and it wouldnt work after 2-3 sieges theyd be destroyed and the hireling units are to weak when faced with 1 unit of battle trolls i lost over 800 men to kill them where 1 unit of dwarf vanguard or enforcer's would of done the job easilly with a good charge.
    Wouldnt it have been better to just increase the training time on dwarf units outside of those settlements and then double the population they use or something similar so that using a lot of dwarfs isnt workable.

    With elves its even worse outside your forests your helpless if you lose a fight your going to have to retreat miles to retrain and probably lose half the territory you gained because you cant afford the time to bring a strong defense force to each new city.

    Im holding my line barely by hemoraging about 15000 a turn on merc units to use a fodder trying to keep hirelings alive long enough to gain ranks but short of a settlement with stone walls hirelings can not defend effectively against anything but goblins or weak stacks and even with a stone wall 1 easterling warguard would cut 2-3 hireling units to shreds before going down and the merc units die even faster ur looking at maybe 4-5 merc units to kill 1 easterling warguard unit in a siege battle.

    Ive tried my normal tactic of just a constant assault to keep from being attacked but ive got goblins swarming 1 side mordon another harad on a third plus isengard and dunland armies are starting to pop up and at this stage the only thing keeping my borders secure is a few well positioned forts maned by vanguard's halberds 1 unit of slayers and a lot of bowmen and i cant hold them for more then about 15 more turns before forts start being overwhelmed.
    I am the shadow, and the smoke in your eyes I am the ghost, that hides in the night.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
    we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight on the beaches,
    we shall fight on the landing grounds,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

    " The dark is generous.
    Its first gift is concealment: our true faces lie in the dark beneath our skins, our true hearts remain shadowed deeper still. But the greatest concealment lies not in protecting our secret truths, but in hiding from the truths of others.
    The dark protects us from what we dare not know.
    Its second gift is comforting illusion: the ease of gentle dreams in night’s embrace, the beauty that imagination brings to what would repel in the day’s harsh light. But the greatest of its comforts is the illusion that dark is temporary: that every night brings a new day. Because it’s the day that is temporary.
    Day is the illusion.
    Its third gift is the light itself: as days are defined by the nights that divide them, as stars are defined by the infinite black through which they wheel, the dark embraces the light, and brings it forth from the center of its own self.
    With each victory of the light, it is the dark that wins.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient.
    It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt.
    The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout.
    The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light.
    The dark’s patience is infinite.
    Eventually, even stars burn out.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
    It always wins because it is everywhere.
    It is in the wood that burns in your hearth, and in the kettle on the fire; it is under your chair and under your table and under the sheets on your bed. Walk in the midday sun, and the dark is with you, attached to the soles of your feet.
    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.


    The dark is generous and it is patient and it always wins – but in the heart of its strength lies its weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
    Love is more than a candle.
    Love can ignite the stars."



    Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

    You began the war.

    I am going to end it!

  2. #2
    TheDarkKnight's Avatar Compliance will be rewarded
    took an arrow to the knee Content Emeritus spy of the council

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    Default Re: Unit training.

    It's something I would like to see rectified as well. I can understand the issue with not being able to train dwarves or elves elsewhere but they should be able to at least train better men than hirelings, especially the dwarves, who could probably train and equip legions of men.
    Things I trust more than American conservatives:

    Drinks from Bill Cosby, Flint Michigan tap water, Plane rides from Al Qaeda, Anything on the menu at Chipotle, Medical procedures from Mengele

  3. #3

    Default Re: Unit training.

    Give the region to the proper owner.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Unit training.

    Uhm u realise noldor has all of about 5-6 city's that way? ud be looking at half a stack maximum of men with my current armies not including city defenses id be bankrupt in 4 turns at best.

    I could accept no strong men but you could atleast be able to train just the basic men and just add 1-2 extra turns to trains time to make up for it.

    As things stand my current campaign as noldor has come to a stand still because i have to wait 5-6 turns between advances to bring in a new defense force to hold my ground but besides that its going well i removed dunland took isengard on the second assault the first being royally boned by saruman who is apparently stronger then 600 sentinels 100 kings guard and 3 generals all with gold weapon and armor and a minamum of 3 silver chevrons.
    2nd time i just took the walls put all my archers on them and buried him under about 400 arrows.

    But ive got a tiny income so i cant make a second stack i need 8 turns at a time to train a defense force ( 2 spear 2 basic archer ) and then on top of travel time thats about 14 turns to get said unit to my frontline which is currently just advancing past isengard while i decide if i should check that the other elves are ok and support them or if i should push through to gondor.
    Plus 2 half stacks of mounted archers which are patrolling the border between goblins and free people picking off enemy half stacks and smaller force's and when free people attack they provide flank guards while there sieging and fire support durin the battle itself.

    My main stack is 2 generals both 3 gold chevrons 1 is 37 men 1 in 29 plus 7 of each of the 2 sentinel units.
    Im considering adding some spear guard now im facing better armored enemies but vs dunland and goblins who needs melee .
    3000 goblins is cut to 1500 by arrows then what was 3 generals would charge into the rest be surrounded by 1500 goblins then cut them into little pieces.

    But vs urukhai and greater orcs that tactic aint so effective but i dnt like using melee other then generals as elves because retraining them is so dam hard so i might take all my other generals retrain them to improve armor and then have about 6 general units to provide the melee back bone while my elite sentinels bury the enemy in arrows.

    If you cant add the ability to train atleast basic men in other settlements ( it could be in say mid level city's or higher only to make it more difficult ) or you could add a wider variety of stronger mercs and place them in all area's insted of there being no mercs in elven area's and then only sell sword units which only actual use ive found is being mullered so i can flank with better units couse even the axemen with gold weapon and armor are barely a match for an orc warband and a greater warband massacare's them so easilly ud be better off using gondor guardsmen then sell swords.

    I had a dwarf defense force hit by a full goblin stack.
    My normal dwarf force is 1 vanguard 2 axemen 3 warsmith's in a dwarf city which will then route said army with maybe 1/4 losses to 1/3 at worst.
    Same stack hit a border settlement that had 6 hireling spear 5 hireling archer 4 sellsword axe 2 hireling cavalry all silver weapon and armor.

    1 unit of battle trolls wiped all 4 axemen plus 2 spears and 3 archer units i won the battle by the skin of my teeth afterwards through hammer and anvil with the last 4 badly battered spear units pinning the enemy in a street archers firing into there midst and cavalry flanking.
    But 1 vanguard unit getting a good charge would of killed those trolls probly lost half the unit but would of won so 25 dwarf losses compared to about 120 hireling spear 130 hireling bow and over 200 sellsword axe.

    Those units are so weak there useless but it isnt possible to use dwarf force's to defend settlements because retrain would take 10+ turns at my current frontline in that campaign so im managing about 500 income a turn because i have about 50 merc units and close to 200 hireling units holding city's that i could hold with about 75 dwarf units.

    Sorry if im rambling it's just becoming irritating given that im on vh/vh and spending this much time bogged down is likely to end in me losing because im going to get buried alive under enemy stacks.
    My exposes borders all have half stack defense force's but only 1 of them is capable of retraining them so 2-3 good enemy hits and im likely to have big holes in my border's and i dont have the men to protect them all even on very high tax income in all city's keeping happiness at yellow my income can not keep up with the men i need and trade isnt an option.
    Rohan is down to 2 city's including helmsdeep gondor is doing ok there holding there ground so far but isengard and mordor has me cut off from them.
    Free people ive got good trade from but then by the looks of them the only thing keeping them fighting is my 2 roaming patrols killing off 1/2 if not more of the enemy attacks that come towards them and if its gone as normal by now both other elves dwarfs and dale are probably down to 1 city a piece because i havnt seen the faction destroyed message for them yet but i probably will do soon.
    Last edited by mesor; February 10, 2012 at 10:27 AM.
    I am the shadow, and the smoke in your eyes I am the ghost, that hides in the night.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
    we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight on the beaches,
    we shall fight on the landing grounds,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

    " The dark is generous.
    Its first gift is concealment: our true faces lie in the dark beneath our skins, our true hearts remain shadowed deeper still. But the greatest concealment lies not in protecting our secret truths, but in hiding from the truths of others.
    The dark protects us from what we dare not know.
    Its second gift is comforting illusion: the ease of gentle dreams in night’s embrace, the beauty that imagination brings to what would repel in the day’s harsh light. But the greatest of its comforts is the illusion that dark is temporary: that every night brings a new day. Because it’s the day that is temporary.
    Day is the illusion.
    Its third gift is the light itself: as days are defined by the nights that divide them, as stars are defined by the infinite black through which they wheel, the dark embraces the light, and brings it forth from the center of its own self.
    With each victory of the light, it is the dark that wins.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient.
    It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt.
    The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout.
    The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light.
    The dark’s patience is infinite.
    Eventually, even stars burn out.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
    It always wins because it is everywhere.
    It is in the wood that burns in your hearth, and in the kettle on the fire; it is under your chair and under your table and under the sheets on your bed. Walk in the midday sun, and the dark is with you, attached to the soles of your feet.
    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.


    The dark is generous and it is patient and it always wins – but in the heart of its strength lies its weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
    Love is more than a candle.
    Love can ignite the stars."



    Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

    You began the war.

    I am going to end it!

  5. #5
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Unit training.

    in the next version you can recruit everywhere, but population grow is tiny outside your home regions
    Quote Originally Posted by Bardo View Post
    My personal solution was to handle with population. In current version the population grows normally at your racial regions, but it hardly grows at foreign regions, so it is really hard to recruit units there, but it should possible to rehealth some unit from time to time.

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Unit training.

    Works for me i enslave most city's anyway and i dont mind sending the initial force from a home town or sending half of it from there aslong as i could retrain it in the new city insted of having to bring in more men.

    Thanks how far off is the next version?
    I am the shadow, and the smoke in your eyes I am the ghost, that hides in the night.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
    we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight on the beaches,
    we shall fight on the landing grounds,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

    " The dark is generous.
    Its first gift is concealment: our true faces lie in the dark beneath our skins, our true hearts remain shadowed deeper still. But the greatest concealment lies not in protecting our secret truths, but in hiding from the truths of others.
    The dark protects us from what we dare not know.
    Its second gift is comforting illusion: the ease of gentle dreams in night’s embrace, the beauty that imagination brings to what would repel in the day’s harsh light. But the greatest of its comforts is the illusion that dark is temporary: that every night brings a new day. Because it’s the day that is temporary.
    Day is the illusion.
    Its third gift is the light itself: as days are defined by the nights that divide them, as stars are defined by the infinite black through which they wheel, the dark embraces the light, and brings it forth from the center of its own self.
    With each victory of the light, it is the dark that wins.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient.
    It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt.
    The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout.
    The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light.
    The dark’s patience is infinite.
    Eventually, even stars burn out.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
    It always wins because it is everywhere.
    It is in the wood that burns in your hearth, and in the kettle on the fire; it is under your chair and under your table and under the sheets on your bed. Walk in the midday sun, and the dark is with you, attached to the soles of your feet.
    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.


    The dark is generous and it is patient and it always wins – but in the heart of its strength lies its weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
    Love is more than a candle.
    Love can ignite the stars."



    Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

    You began the war.

    I am going to end it!

  7. #7
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    FINLAND!!!
    Posts
    5,355

    Default Re: Unit training.

    still in testing
    oh and every settlement you capture starts with 400 population (you have to wait for the population to rise (should take long time)) so you can only occupy
    lets just hope it happens

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Unit training.

    So its no different then.
    Ill still have to bring men from a dozen turns away to fill city's unless i wait about 100 turns between conquers and ill still have to retrain by bringing in men from further away because 1 good fight would cripple the population of city's on the front line and odds are itd take about 100 turns to get enough population just to build the normal 4-5 units in a defense force.

    How is that going to work any better then the current system exactly except it'll be 5x as hard to get a stone wall in a smaller city when you take it and theres no slaves so itd take about 500+ turns to upgrade a city from medium to large.
    I am the shadow, and the smoke in your eyes I am the ghost, that hides in the night.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
    we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight on the beaches,
    we shall fight on the landing grounds,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

    " The dark is generous.
    Its first gift is concealment: our true faces lie in the dark beneath our skins, our true hearts remain shadowed deeper still. But the greatest concealment lies not in protecting our secret truths, but in hiding from the truths of others.
    The dark protects us from what we dare not know.
    Its second gift is comforting illusion: the ease of gentle dreams in night’s embrace, the beauty that imagination brings to what would repel in the day’s harsh light. But the greatest of its comforts is the illusion that dark is temporary: that every night brings a new day. Because it’s the day that is temporary.
    Day is the illusion.
    Its third gift is the light itself: as days are defined by the nights that divide them, as stars are defined by the infinite black through which they wheel, the dark embraces the light, and brings it forth from the center of its own self.
    With each victory of the light, it is the dark that wins.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient.
    It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt.
    The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout.
    The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light.
    The dark’s patience is infinite.
    Eventually, even stars burn out.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
    It always wins because it is everywhere.
    It is in the wood that burns in your hearth, and in the kettle on the fire; it is under your chair and under your table and under the sheets on your bed. Walk in the midday sun, and the dark is with you, attached to the soles of your feet.
    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.


    The dark is generous and it is patient and it always wins – but in the heart of its strength lies its weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
    Love is more than a candle.
    Love can ignite the stars."



    Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

    You began the war.

    I am going to end it!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Unit training.

    its not really thaaaat long...
    Then, as throngs of his enemies bore down upon him and one of his followers said, "They are making at thee, O King," "Who else, pray," said Antigonus, "should be their mark? But Demetrius will come to my aid." This was his hope to the last, and to the last he kept watching eagerly for his son; then a whole cloud of javelins were let fly at him and he fell.

    -Plutarch, life of Demetrius.

    Arche Aiakidae-Epeiros EB2 AAR

  10. #10

    Default Re: Unit training.

    Uhm dude ive got an army in mordor currently driving back them to give gondor a chance to recover.

    Ive got 6 turns at best before that army is wiped out because its 27 turns to replace 1 set of sentinels and 34 for the other.
    17 to replace basic men or cavalry.

    My city's in mordor have no hope of replacement troops once the spare forces in a fort outside minas tirith are drained and they will be gone long before i could bring in fresh troops because of the travel time.

    But that wont be any easier with the new method if you gain population so slowly that building 1 unit of 40 men will take 10 turns.
    I am the shadow, and the smoke in your eyes I am the ghost, that hides in the night.

    We shall go on to the end, we shall fight in France,
    we shall fight on the seas and oceans,
    we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our Island, whatever the cost may be,
    we shall fight on the beaches,
    we shall fight on the landing grounds,
    we shall fight in the fields and in the streets,
    we shall fight in the hills;
    we shall never surrender.

    " The dark is generous.
    Its first gift is concealment: our true faces lie in the dark beneath our skins, our true hearts remain shadowed deeper still. But the greatest concealment lies not in protecting our secret truths, but in hiding from the truths of others.
    The dark protects us from what we dare not know.
    Its second gift is comforting illusion: the ease of gentle dreams in night’s embrace, the beauty that imagination brings to what would repel in the day’s harsh light. But the greatest of its comforts is the illusion that dark is temporary: that every night brings a new day. Because it’s the day that is temporary.
    Day is the illusion.
    Its third gift is the light itself: as days are defined by the nights that divide them, as stars are defined by the infinite black through which they wheel, the dark embraces the light, and brings it forth from the center of its own self.
    With each victory of the light, it is the dark that wins.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient.
    It is the dark that seeds cruelty into justice, that drips contempt into compassion, that poisons love with grains of doubt.
    The dark can be patient, because the slightest drop of rain will cause those seeds to sprout.
    The rain will come, and the seeds will sprout, for the dark is the soil in which they grow, and it is the clouds above them, and it waits behind the star that gives them light.
    The dark’s patience is infinite.
    Eventually, even stars burn out.


    The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
    It always wins because it is everywhere.
    It is in the wood that burns in your hearth, and in the kettle on the fire; it is under your chair and under your table and under the sheets on your bed. Walk in the midday sun, and the dark is with you, attached to the soles of your feet.
    The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.


    The dark is generous and it is patient and it always wins – but in the heart of its strength lies its weakness: one lone candle is enough to hold it back.
    Love is more than a candle.
    Love can ignite the stars."



    Alpha and Omega the beginning and the end.

    You began the war.

    I am going to end it!

  11. #11
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    FINLAND!!!
    Posts
    5,355

    Default Re: Unit training.

    that's the only way to keep elves from going Adolf on the middle-earth...

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

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