Contest: Historical battles for IBRR - Your choices, Your contribution!

**Gäiten** · February 08, 2012, 11:50 AM

Greetings, fans of RVINA ROMAE!

Because of the extensive revamping of the units for this mod, we've needed to completely rework the historical battles.

You will all now have the chance to tell us which historical battles you would like to see included into RVINA ROMAE. Each of you can give us 3 options.

And the reward? Well, besides the honour of having your suggestion featured in the mod, you're also free to write a short description of the battle in question.

The deadline is set for March 4 2012.

**RandomSarmartian** · February 08, 2012, 10:14 PM

the hephthalite ambush killing peroz
dont know the exact number but there would be 2 hephthalite armies

thanks for the great mod

**Deutschland** · February 09, 2012, 01:25 AM

Battle on the Margus

Battle of chalons 2.0

Batte of Frigidus

**Gäiten** · February 09, 2012, 03:29 AM

Please do not forget the descriptions, that is a not so minor factor in getting chosen

**Agent007** · February 10, 2012, 04:18 PM

After thinking a while about my three choices, here is the first, with its description:

- Battle of Avarayr: May 26th, 451AD

Around 430AD, the Kingdom of Armenia had become a sort of Sassanid protectorate. The Armenian nobles initially accepted the Persian suzerainty, since they were allowed to retain their christian faith; things changed, however, when Yazdegerd II came into power in Persia and pressured the Armenians in order to secure their political loyalty. The Sassanid ruler was concerned that the Armenian Church would be alligned with the Western Church rather than with the Nestorian Church, which had Persian support, so Yazdegerd tried to force the Armenians to cut their ties with Rome and - specially - Constantinople. This policy created a christian rebellion in Armenia, with the nobles joining in, led by Vartan Mamikonian; the Sassanid ruler then sent a great army to crush the uprising, and Vartan asked Constantinople for aid, as he was in good personal terms with Theodosius II. Nevertheless, the Roman help did not arrive in time.

The Armenian army, estimated to be 66.000 strong, is said to have taken the Holy Communion before the battle. It was not much of a professional force, but the Armenian nobility who led it, and their retinues, were experienced soldiers, many of them veterans of the Sassanid wars with the Romans and the Hephtalites. The Armenian cavalry was at that time an elite force, greatly appreciated as a tactical ally, by both Persians and Romans. The Persian army, perhaps counting as much as 200.000 men, included war elephants and the famous Savaran cavalry; furthermore, some Armenian noblemen with weaker christian sympathies, went over to the Persians before the battle, and fought on their side.
In the battle, Vartan Mamikonian won some initial edge, but was eventually slain, along with eight of his top officers.

After his victory, Yazdegerd II appointed a new governor for Armenia. As for the religious matter, the Armenian Church was unable to send a delegation to the Council of Chalcedon; it would reject the decisions of the Council, adhering to Miaphysitism. The Armenian resistance continued in the decades that followed, led by Vartan's nephew, Vahan Mamikonian; In 484 AD, the Sassanid king Peroz I accepted to give religious freedom to the christian Armenians, who were, however, no longer in communion with the Western Church, and allowed the construction of new churches. The Armenians see the Battle of Avarayr as a moral victory: May 26th is considered to be a holy day for them, and it is one of the most important national and religious days in Armenia.

**First Citizen Gallienus** · February 10, 2012, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by Deutschland

Battle on the Margus

Battle of chalons 2.0

Batte of Frigidus

I can see the "Battle of Chalons" and "Frigidus" being possible candidates, but it seems that the "Battle on the Margus" is more for the era in the IB:Restitutor Orbis mod.

**Agent007** · February 10, 2012, 04:57 PM

My second choice:

- Battle of the Catalaunian Plains: June 20th (or September 20th), 451AD

Reading the Late Antiquity writers, there is not a clear answer on the motivation that led Attila to wage his campaign against the Western Roman Empire in 451AD. Jordanes states that Attila was enticed by the Gaiseric (or Genseric), king of the Vandals, to wage war on the Visigoths; at the same time, Gaiseric himself would attempt to sow strife between the Visigoths and the Western Roman Empire. Other authors give different motivations: Honoria, sister of emperor Valentinian III, had been married off to the loyal senator Herculanus a few years before, and this kept her in a confinement that she regretted. In 450AD, she sent a message to Attila, asking for his aid in escaping her confinement; she offered her hand in marriage, and half of the Western Empire as a dowry. Attila then demanded Honoria to be delivered, along with the dowry; Valentinian rejected the demands, and Attila used this as an excuse to launch a destructive campaign through Roman Gaul.

The Huns crossed the Rhine early in 451AD with a large number of their allies, sacking Divodurum (Metz), for instance, as well as other cities; Attila's army reached Aurelianum (Orléans) by June. The fortified city guarded an important crossing point over the Loire, and the inhabitants shut their gates against the advancing invaders. Attila then proceeded to besiege the city.

Upon learning of the invasion, the Magister Militum, Flavius Aetius, moved quickly from Italy into Gaul and immediately attempted to convince Theodoric I of the Visigoths to join him. However, the Visigothic king thought it was wiser to wait to oppose the Huns in his own lands. Aetius then turned to the powerful local magnate Avitus for help, and Avitus was not only able to convince Theodoric I to join with the Romans, but also a number of other germans of Gaul.The combined Romano-Germanic armies then marched towards Aurelianum, reaching the city around June 14th.
Even if their siege of Aurelianum was progressing very well, the Huns broke camp and retreated in their home direction, likely looking for an advantageous location to make a stand, with Theodoric and Aetius following in close pursuit.

The two forces finally met at the Catalaunian Fields on June 20th, with other sources claiming the date of September 20th. In accordance with Hunnic customs, Attila had his diviners examine the entrails of a sacrifice in the morning before battle; they foretold that disaster would befall the Huns and one of the enemy leaders would be killed. At the risk of his own life and hoping for Aetius to die, Attila gave orders for combat. According to Jordanes, the Catalaunian plain rose on one side by a sharp slope to a ridge. This geographical feature dominated the battlefield and became the center of the battle. The Huns first seized the right side of the ridge, while the Romans seized the left, with the crest unoccupied between them. Jordanes explains that the Visigoths held the right side, the Romans the left, with king Sangiban of the Alans surrounded in the middle. When the Huns attempted to seize the decisive central position, they were foiled by the Roman alliance. Their troops had arrived first and repulsed Attila's advance. The Hunnish warriors fled in disorder back into their own ranks, thereby disordering the rest of their army.

Attila attempted to rally his forces, struggling to hold his position. Meanwhile, Theodoric, leading his own men in pursuit of the disordered enemy, was killed in the assault without his men noticing. Jordanes states that Theodoric was thrown from his horse and trampled to death by his own advancing men, but he also mentions another story that had Theodoric slain by the spear of an Ostrogoth. The Visigoths fell upon Attila's own Hunnic household unit, and the Hunnic king was forced to seek refuge in his own camp, which he had fortified with wagons. The Romano-Gothic charge apparently swept past the Hunnic camp in pursuit; when night fell, Thorismund, son of king Theodoric, returning to friendly lines, entered Attila's encampment by mistake. There he was wounded in the ensuing melee before his followers could rescue him. The darkness also separated Aetius from his own men, and as he feared that disaster had befallen them, he spent the rest of the night with his Visigothic allies.

On the following day, finding the battlefields "were piled high with bodies and the Huns did not venture forth", the Goths and Romans met to decide their next move. Knowing that Attila was low on provisions and "was hindered from approaching by a shower of arrows placed within the confines of the Roman camp", they started to besiege his encampment. In this desperate situation, Attila remained unbowed and "heaped up a funeral pyre of horse saddles, so that if the enemy should attack him, he was determined to cast himself into the flames, that none might have the joy of wounding him and that the lord of so many races might not fall into the hands of his foes" (Jordanes). While Attila was trapped in his camp, the Visigoths searched for their missing king and his son. After a long search, they found Theodoric's corpse beneath a mound of corpses and bore him away with heroic songs in sight of the enemy. Upon learning of his father's death, Thorismund wanted to immediately assault Attila's camp, but Aetius dissuaded him. According to Jordanes, the Roman general feared that if the Huns were completely destroyed, the Visigoths would break off their allegiance to the Roman Empire and become an even greater threat. So Aetius convinced Thorismund to quickly return home and secure the throne for himself, before his brothers could, otherwise, civil war would ensue among the Visigoths. Thorismund quickly returned to Toulouse, then the Visigothic main city, and became king without any resistance.
On the Visigoths' withdrawal, Attila first believed it to be a feigned retreat to draw his battered forces out into the open for annihilation. So he remained within his defences for some time before he risked to leave his camp and return home.

The following year, a weakened Attila invaded Italy, but still caused much destruction, only ending his campaign after Pope Leo I met him at a ford of the river Mincio. It was only after Attila's sudden death in 453AD, and after the divided and competing Hunnic forces fell upon each other and were defeated at the Battle of Nedao in the following year, that the Huns vanished as a threat to Europe and the Roman Empire. As for the Western Roman Empire, it did not emerge with renewed military might, but instead was likewise weakened, though more slowly than the Huns: despite the assassinations of Aetius, and the Sack of Rome by Gaiseric and his Vandals in 455AD, a generation later there were still sufficient useful remains of the Western Roman Empire for the warlords to fight over.

**Diocle** · February 10, 2012, 06:51 PM

My choices are:

Ad Salices 377 AD
Frigidus 394 AD
Arelate 458 AD

1. Ad Salices 377 AD:
Not very big battle, mainly infantry vs. infantry battle. Under pressure from the Huns and the Alans a band of Goths crossed the Danube in 376 and sought refuge inside the Roman Empire. Initially they were welcomed as potential recruits but ill treatment at the hands of local Roman officers drove the Goths into revolt. One band of Goths was encamped by the mouth of the danube in early 377 and a Roman Army moved to meet them. the Goths sent messengers to call for help from other nearby bands and when these renforcements arrived they left their fortified camp to attack the Romans.

The numbers of troops are unknown but both armies were probably about 5-8000 strong with the Goths having a small numerical advantage. Both side were predominantly infantry.

The Romans were a mixed force of Eastern Legions recently withdrawn from Armenia, and under strenght Western Vexillationes sent from the Rhine Limes. Morale was low since the Easterners were unused to this sort of fighting and the Westerners were not happy about being sent so far from home. Regional Field Army troops Comitatenses from Thrace and possibly also border troops Limitanei drawn from the Scythian frontier zone probably augmented these troops. Overall Command fell to the Western General Richomeres. He was assisted by the able but ageing Frigeridus, also a Westerner, and Profuturus and Trajan, both Easterners Commanders who were described by a contemporary historian as 'men of high ambition but poor Generals.'
The Goths seized some high ground from which to charge down on the Romans who were deploying nearby.
The Romans deployed defensively in two lines, or perhaps with a main line and a small reserve. The Goths attacked in dense columns in a single mass moving forward deliberately and cautiously, halting at javelin range. Then the two lines tried to intimidate each other, and rise their own morale, by shouting war cries, banging on their shields, and insulting their opponents. This gave way to an engagement with missile weapons. Finally the two lines crashed together, each trying to force the other back in a massive shoving match. As so often happened in a battle between Romans and Germans, the first Roman line gave way under the weight of the denser Gothic formation, but the reserves moved up to restore the situation. In this case, the traditionally weak left wing gave way, while the rest of the line managed to hold. The Cavalry small in numbers, hovered on the flanks, seeking opportunities and pursuing fugitives.

The battle continued all day and as evening arrived both side withdrew exausted and in disorder to their respective camps although the Romans suffered the greatest losses.

.
2. Frigidus River 394 AD:
The battle of river Frigidus came 16 years late to be recorded in 'Historiae' of Ammianus Marcellinus. It is a fascinating battle: it was the end of an era, as the Last Great Civil War between Eastern and Western Romans Armies. The Eastern army won which was unusual as the Western Army was generally a better force. But the Battale of Frigidus River was also the first great battle of the new century as the Eastern Army included a large Visigothic allied contingent.
Theodosius brought the eastern army west to put down a Frankish Magister, Arbogast, who had placed a puppet Emperor called Eugenius on the Western Throne. The new Western Governement was Pagan, an intollerable challange for the christian Theodosius. Arbogast marched with the Westerners to meet the Eastern Army at the Frigidus River 35 miles from Aquileia inside Slovenia, near the border with modern Italy.

Terrain: The battle was fought in a wide valley where a mountain pass allowed access south from the Birnbaumer Wald. At the base of the valley runs the Wippach, the Frigidus River!

The Forces: The Armies involved were reputedly huge, up to 100.000 troops each. In addition, Theodosius had 20.000 Visigothic allies.
There were, therefore three armies present, the Wetsern Roman Army under Arbogast, the Eastern Roman Army of Theodosius and the Visigoths allied of Theodosius.

The Battle: The Westerners reached the battlefield first and built a fortified palisade. On the 5th September Arbogast paraded his army in front of it and offered battle. The Eastern army reached the head of the pass by a Watch Tower known to the Romans as 'Ad Pirum' (the peer tree). The army filed down the pass into the more open valley during the afternoon in a long column.

The Goths were in the vanguard and in the middle of the afternoon they launched a furious engagement stright from the line of march into the Western Army. It is not clear wether this was simple indiscipline or a deliberate tactic of Theodosius to (I) cover the main Eastern army while it was deploying, (II) try to bowl the Western Army over before it was ready for battle, or (III) to get as many Goths as possible killed while wearing down the Westerners.

If the last option was intended then the attack was a brillant success! By nightfall the Goths took 50% casualties in a vicious and sustained frontal assault. The Westerners losses are not recorded but must have beeen substantial. That night the Western Army celebrated while Theodosius prayed.
When morning came Arbogast was astonished to see the Eastern Roman Army in battle formation!
At this point some of the Western units fled but most were steadfast. The Eastern army launched a second assault that was as bloody as the first. This time God answered and the wind known as the 'Bora' (the North Wind) came sweeping down the the valley at a speed up to 120 Km/h.
This tipped the balance and the Western Army attempted to retreat to their palisade. The Easterners brunt it around them with great loss of life. The massacre was colossal in both armies but the Western Roman Army was annihilated. Eugenius was executed and Arbogast trying to escape in the end committed suicide.

Historical outcome: The Frigidus Flumen battle was the swan song of the Western Roman Army. The battle led directly to the loss of the Western Provinces. The losses in the Army, especially the Western Army, were catastrophic. The frontiers had been stripped of troops, many of which would never return.
Theodosius died a few months later, worn out by the campaign, and the Empire was permanently divided between his two under aged sons. Within twelve years the Rhine frontier would collapse, Britain lost and Gaul and Spain devastated. Out of all this, the Visigoths had demonstrated a significant influence in deciding the Imperial Succession and would demand further favours.

(personal note: many were the ways in which christianity destroyed the Roman Civilization!)

.
3. Arelate 458 AD:
When the news of the deposition of the Gallic-Roman emperor Avitus arrived in Gaul, the province refused to recognise Majorian as his successor. In 458, after consolidating his power in Italy, Majorian personally led the Italian field army, bolstered with barbarian foederati, to bring Gaul back under control. He was opposed by the Visigoths under King Theodoric II who had expanded his territories in southern Gaul and into Spain.

The Gallo-Romans gathered sufficient forces together to join with the Visigoths to oppose Majorian in battle. The Gallic Army is composed of two independent forces with no overall commander. They are holding a defensive position.
The Italian Army is all under Majorian's command. The various barbarian contingents are assumed to be foederati (federates - technically part of the Roman army) rather than independent allies. Majorian is on the offensive and must attack and drive back the Gallic forces to win.

We know very little about the historical campaign or the forces involved. Majorian, supported by Aegidius and Nepotianus, inflicted a crushing defeat on Theodoric's Visigoths, forcing them to abandon territories they had occupied west of the Rhone.

Although the Gallo-Roman aristocracy did not support Majorian, we do not know if they actually had any forces available to join Theodoric. Procopius, writing in the 6th C, mentions Gallo-Roman troops so it is probably not too much of a stretch to assume some Gallo-Romans may have been present. It is also possible they could have been supported by Burgundians and Alans who were settled in the region as military allies. The Baccudae - escaped slaves and tax avoiders - who were endemic in 5th C France may also have taken part.

The Visigoths were the descendants of the people who had defeated the Roman army at Adrianople in AD 378. They had been settled in southern France for several generations. Although initially mostly foot warriors, by this point in history I have assumed a fairly high proportion of the more wealthy would have been mounted.
Majorian's army is largely conjectural although his two subordinates Aegidius and Nepotianus were present. We do know that much of the Italian army was composed of Germanic mercenaries and allies although I have assumed a core of Roman troops still existed.

Few numbers quite hypothetical but possible:

Gallo-Romans: Total 12.000
Visigothic Allied contingent Infantry + Cavalry: Teodoricus II 4500
Gallo-Roman Infantry + Burgundi + Bacaude Cavalry: Marcellus 7500

Italian Army: Total 10000
General Marjoran
Roman Heavy Cavalry and Huns: Aegidius 2000
Foederati: Ostrogoths, Rugii, Heruls, Gepids 2000
Roman Infantry: Comitatensi, Palatini + Suebi: Nepotianus 6000

.
Sources: Mainly colonel 'Optimo Maximo' Simon MacDowall and J.Lambshead.

**Agent007** · February 11, 2012, 04:40 PM

So, last night I was a bit tired, and as such here's my third choice, now:

- Battle of Vouillé: spring 507AD

In 486AD, the Franks under Clovis had beaten and destroyed the last Roman political entity in Gaul, the "Domain of Soissons" of Syagrius. This victory expanded the Frankish territories from the Low Countries and present-day northeastern France to the Loire river, bordering the vast kindgom of the Visigoths to the south, which covered much of Hispania (the exception being its northwestern region, which was under Svebian rule) and almost all of Gaul south of the Loire. Clovis converted directly from the traditional religion (a.k.a. paganism) to Catholicism, gaining a great deal of prestige within the official hierarchy of the Church, both with the local bishops and the Pope in Rome; the Visigoths already followed Christianity, but in its Arian form. This religious aspect would play its part in the ensuing conflict between Franks and Goths. During those years, many high-ranked Visigothic families had been migrating into Hispania, mainly to the high plains in the centre of the Iberian Peninsula, where land tenure was up for grabs. On other hand, it is possible that defections, even in the battlefield, weakened the position of the Alaric II, king of the Visigoths, due to family feuds between clans.

On the spring of the year 507AD, the Franks crossed the Loire, meeting the Visigoths at Vouillé, near the city of Poitiers (this is why this battle is sometimes called "the first battle of Poitiers", the second being the famous one of 732AD, between the Franks under Charles Martel and a muslim force who was raiding Aquitania after the muslim conquest of Hispania, and the third on 19th September 1356AD, during the Hundred Years' War, pitching the English, under Edward, "the Black Prince", against the French, under king Jean II).
It was a complete Frankish victory, with Clovis himself killing Alaric; the battle forced the Visigoths to retreat to Septimania (present-day Languedoc-Roussillon), which they continued to hold for the most part, until the demise of their kingdom in 711AD at the hands of the Ummayad Caliphate. Even after that event, in Carolingian times, there were Gothic counts governing the area.
The success at Vouillé allowed the Franks to control the southwestern part of modern France, and to capture Toulouse, which was the main city of the Visigoths at the time. The Franks might even have pushed farther, had Theodoric the Great of the Ostrogoths not intervened.

In the aftermath, the Visigoths reinforced their holding on their Spanish possessions, creating a kingdom which would endure for two centuries, covering all of Hispania after the conquest of the Svebians, in 585AD. They would also convert to Catholicism in the following year, 586AD, to forge a stronger union with the Hispano-Romans, who were catholic for the most part. As for the Franks, the victory brought Clovis a greater prestige, with the Eastern Roman emperor, Anastasius, making him a consul; even more important, it inaugurated an era of cooperation with the structures of the Roman Church - extremely important in those days for the development of an administration and a government - which would last for centuries, well after the peak of the Frankish Empire under Charlemagne, and into the High Middle Ages - by then, already as the entity that we know as the Kingdom of France.

**Gäiten** · February 12, 2012, 05:47 AM

Interesting choices so far.

**Diocle** · February 13, 2012, 07:42 AM

Only interesting?.............. But our choices were wonderful! Well presented!! Detailed!!! with a lot of useful informations!!!

(what a shameless auto-exaltation!!

..............sorry I was joking!

)

Well, thanks to Agent007, we have Avarayr, but we would need more Armenian and Sassanids and Indian battles....but it is not easy to find the sources about the East!......It would be very interesting add more good eastern exemples. I have some good exemple of Sassanid battle but it belongs to a later period.

The choices of Deutchland are perfect, sadly Margus is out of this Mod timeframe, I have an interesting description of the Margus battle (Loving Diocletian I love Margus), it is not very detailed but it is interesting, maybe for Restitutor Orbis.

**Gäiten** · February 13, 2012, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by Diocle

Only interesting?.............. But our choices were wonderful! Well presented!! Detailed!!! with a lot of useful informations!!!

(what a shameless auto-exaltation!!

..............sorry I was joking!

)

Welcome to our manic-depressive life.

-------------------------

To clarify, historical battles can be taken from 300AD till 630AD.

**Diocle** · February 13, 2012, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the encouraging words, master Gaiten!

**demagogos nicator** · February 17, 2012, 07:47 AM

Originally Posted by Agent007

So, last night I was a bit tired, and as such here's my third choice, now:

- Battle of Vouillé: spring 507AD

In 486AD, the Franks under Clovis had beaten and destroyed the last Roman political entity in Gaul, the "Domain of Soissons" of Syagrius. This victory expanded the Frankish territories from the Low Countries and present-day northeastern France to the Loire river, bordering the vast kindgom of the Visigoths to the south, which covered much of Hispania (the exception being its northwestern region, which was under Svebian rule) and almost all of Gaul south of the Loire. Clovis converted directly from the traditional religion (a.k.a. paganism) to Catholicism, gaining a great deal of prestige within the official hierarchy of the Church, both with the local bishops and the Pope in Rome; the Visigoths already followed Christianity, but in its Arian form. This religious aspect would play its part in the ensuing conflict between Franks and Goths. During those years, many high-ranked Visigothic families had been migrating into Hispania, mainly to the high plains in the centre of the Iberian Peninsula, where land tenure was up for grabs. On other hand, it is possible that defections, even in the battlefield, weakened the position of the Alaric II, king of the Visigoths, due to family feuds between clans.

On the spring of the year 507AD, the Franks crossed the Loire, meeting the Visigoths at Vouillé, near the city of Poitiers (this is why this battle is sometimes called "the first battle of Poitiers", the second being the famous one of 732AD, between the Franks under Charles Martel and a muslim force who was raiding Aquitania after the muslim conquest of Hispania, and the third on 19th September 1356AD, during the Hundred Years' War, pitching the English, under Edward, "the Black Prince", against the French, under king Jean II).
It was a complete Frankish victory, with Clovis himself killing Alaric; the battle forced the Visigoths to retreat to Septimania (present-day Languedoc-Roussillon), which they continued to hold for the most part, until the demise of their kingdom in 711AD at the hands of the Ummayad Caliphate. Even after that event, in Carolingian times, there were Gothic counts governing the area.
The success at Vouillé allowed the Franks to control the southwestern part of modern France, and to capture Toulouse, which was the main city of the Visigoths at the time. The Franks might even have pushed farther, had Theodoric the Great of the Ostrogoths not intervened.

In the aftermath, the Visigoths reinforced their holding on their Spanish possessions, creating a kingdom which would endure for two centuries, covering all of Hispania after the conquest of the Svebians, in 585AD. They would also convert to Catholicism in the following year, 586AD, to forge a stronger union with the Hispano-Romans, who were catholic for the most part. As for the Franks, the victory brought Clovis a greater prestige, with the Eastern Roman emperor, Anastasius, making him a consul; even more important, it inaugurated an era of cooperation with the structures of the Roman Church - extremely important in those days for the development of an administration and a government - which would last for centuries, well after the peak of the Frankish Empire under Charlemagne, and into the High Middle Ages - by then, already as the entity that we know as the Kingdom of France.

This is great idea for HB indeed. I am supporting this idea.
My second choice is Battle of Adrianopolis.
My third choice may be Nedao or Chalons.

Descriptions of theese battles are alredy in IBFD

**Gäiten** · February 17, 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by demagogos nicator

My second choice is Battle of Adrianopolis.
My third choice may be Nedao or Chalons.

Descriptions of theese battles are alredy in IBFD

Clever one, you.

**Drtad** · February 17, 2012, 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Diocle

Well, thanks to Agent007, we have Avarayr, but we would need more Armenian and Sassanids and Indian battles....but it is not easy to find the sources about the East!......It would be very interesting add more good eastern exemples. I have some good exemple of Sassanid battle but it belongs to a later period.

Here's a battle similar to Avarayr, but it took place earlier in the war in Caucasian Albania, near a village called "Xaghxagh." According to the historian Ghazar Parpetsi, Vartan Mamikonian and his army moved to head off a Persian army headed into Armenia from Albania (the Sassanid invasion plan appears to have initially been to encircle the Armenian rebels from many sides). Here's Ghazar's description of the battle, naming all the important commanders and fronts and explaining what happened (from his point of view of course).

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

"35. When the venerable general of Armenia, Vardan, lord of the Mamikoneans, reached Aghbania/Aghuania, the Iranian military commanders were informed about the arrival of the Armenians. Upon hearing the news, [the Iranians] quickly crossed the great river, called the Kur, and advanced before them as far as the village named Xaghxagh in the country of Aghbania/Aghuania. The blessed sparapet of Armenia, Vardan, saw the limitless multitude [114] of the Iranian brigade, and then saw how very few his own men were. He began to speak with [his men], joyously encouraging them in Christ and recalling for them the words of the holy Spirit which were sung by the prophet Samuel's mother: "'Let the mighty boast not of their might; nor the great one in his greatness, but let them glory in God [I Kings, 2.9; see also Jeremiah 9, 23-24, I Corinthians, I, 31, etc.].' For the matter of victory and defeat rests not in having few or many [soldiers] but with God's will." When the venerable general of Armenia, Vardan, lord of the Mamikoneans, had said this he looked to see the will of his comrades and of all in the brigade with them. [When he saw] how much they had been strengthened and encouraged by fervent love, he joyfully glorified the lord Jesus Christ, the Savior of all.
Before the battle began, [the Armenians] had observed the formation of the Iranian brigades. The venerable general of Armenia, Vardan, arranged his own brigade with competent cavalry, opposite them. He divided [the brigade] into three fronts, entrusting each [front] to a military commander. As military eommander of the right front, he appointed the prince of Arsharunik', Arshawir Kamsarakan (who was also the son-in-law of the blessed Vardan, general of [115] Armenia and lord of the Mamikoneans, being married to his daughter). As a comrade-in-arms [Vardan] gave [Arshawir] the senior sepuh, Mush, from the Dimak'sean azg. [Vardan] entrusted the left front to Xorhen Xorxorhuni and appointed Hmayeak Dimak'sean to support him. Vardan, the blessed general of Armenia, prepared to lead the central front in the attack. With the fronts thus deployed, and depending on God's care, they attacked the enemy.
Arshawir Kamsarakan and Mush, the Dimak'sean sepuh, were the first to reach the site of the battle. However, through unfamiliarity with the place, they fell into an extremely thick marsh. Because of the great rushing of their horses, Arshawir Kamsarakan and Mush fell into the mud together with the horses, and began to sink. The venerable Dimak'sean sepuh, Mush, was martyred there by Nixorakan. But as for [g65] Arshawir Kamsarakan, he got down from his horse which was in deep mud, and on foot he slew Vurk, brother of the the Lp'nac' king. One of [Arshawir's] boots had come off his foot and was in the marsh. Then Kamsarakan, with only one boot on, and covered with mud, together with all [his] troops, removed the horse. Fearlessly, boldly, like a bird he mounted the horse, and put to flight the terrified enemies [116] who were around him. Looking around, [Arshawir] saw the venerable sparapet of Armenia, the lord of the Mamikoneans, Vardan, with his comrades and all of the Armenian brigade. They also were chasing a multitude of Iranian troops before them, as fugitives. Some [of the Iranians] fell to the ground, killed by the sword, while others fell into the river and drowned. Others yet scattered into the fields and dense forests.
Now some of the Iranian nobiity had gotten into boats and were hurrying to flee to the other shore of the great [Kur] river. But the venerable general of Armenia, Vardan, urgently urged Arshawir Kamsarakan, prince of Arsharunik', to shoot arrows after the fleeing boats, since [Vardan] was confident of [Arshawir's] firm and unswerving aim. Arshawir the Kamsarakan (as he always implemented the words of the blessed general) immediately accepted the command from him, and began shooting at the navigators and the fugitives. He mortally wounded the navigators and many other people on board. As the wounded fell, the ships were destroyed. Many of the navigators and the principal Iranians drowned in the river. So, aid from On High favored them wlth victory, and [Vardan's men] returned to their camps thanking and blessing God.
[Vardan's troops] remained there that day, and the next day crossed the great Kur River. They reached a guard wall, located between the principality of Aghbania/Aghuania and the Huns/ Honk'. There they found sentry guards and many other Iranian troops, which they put to the sword. Then they entrusted the pass to a royal Aghbanian/Aghuan named Vahan and sent this same man as an emissary to the Huns and to other strongholds to convince them to ally with them by sending a brigade, [These peoples] willingly and enthusiastically agreed to help, and confirmed it with an oath."

The whole text is here: http://rbedrosian.com/gp5.htm

2. Just for good measure, a battle that is described to have taken place in the central province of Ayrarat in the Armenian kingdom during the reign of King Arshak II (350-367). A prominent Armenian nobleman named Meruzhan Artzruni defected to the Sassanids, helped the Sassanids bypass the army of King Arshak that was encamped in Atropatene and was attacking fortresses in the interior. The Sassanid army was also able to sack the mausoleum of the Arsacid dynasty and steal the remains of the old kings. The Armenian Sparapet, Vasak Mamikonian (ironic first name) took part of the army to attack the Sassanids and managed to rout them, retrieving the lost treasure. This is the account of Faustus of Byzantium, who unfortunately provides no helpful descriptions of any battle (he just says it happened):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Faustus' text can be found here: http://rbedrosian.com/pb8.htm#24.

**Chelchal** · February 22, 2012, 12:06 AM

Battle of the Nedao of course!

From Jordanes:

When Ardaric, king of the Gepidae, learned this, he became enraged because so many nations were being treated like slaves of the basest condition, and was the first to rise against the sons of Attila. Good fortune attended him, and he effaced the disgrace of servitude that rested upon him. For by his revolt he freed not only his own tribe, but all the others who were equally oppressed; since all readily strive for that which is sought for the general advantage. They took up arms against the destruction that menaced all and joined battle with the Huns in Pannonia, near a river called Nedao.

There an encounter took place between the various nations Attila had held under his sway. Kingdoms with their peoples were divided, and out of one body were made many members not responding to a common impulse. Being deprived of their head, they madly strove against each other. They never found their equals ranged against them without harming each other by wounds mutually given. And so the bravest nations tore themselves to pieces. For then, I think, must have occurred a most remarkable spectacle, where one might see the Goths fighting with pikes, the Gepidae raging with the sword, the Rugi breaking off the spears in their own wounds, the Suavi fighting on foot, the Huns with bows, the Alani drawing up a battle-line of heavy-armed and the Heruli of light-armed warriors.

The historian Priscus wrote a history that sadly exists only in fragments, including the famous description of his meeting with Attila. But there is also a remarkable fragment that describes the following event (please follow this link!) In 467, a mixed horde of Huns and Goths crossed the Danube frontier, led by Attila's son Dengizich. Much of the Eastern army had been sent on the soon to be doomed expedition against the Vandals. The Romans pretended to negotiate with them and seek a political accommodation. They even persuaded the barbarians to split their army into different encampments so that they would be easier to supply. In truth, the Romans had effectively divided and blockaded Dengizich's army.

In the Roman army was a Hunnish general named Chelchal (hence my username!) whom the Romans sent to Dengizich as a negotiator. He went to the Goths in the horde and told them that the emperor only intended to give land to the Huns, not the Goths. He was a Hun, and proud of it, but he told the Goths that out of a feeling of fairness he wished to inform them they were being cheated.

Enraged, the Goths began attacking the Huns and the two groups were busily slaughtering each other. In a stroke of treachery (or utter brilliance!) the Roman Magister Militum, Aspar, supported by his generals Anagastes, Ostrys and Basiliscus attacked the quarrelsome barbarians and annihilated them. The Chronicon Paschale has this to say:

Dinzirichus, Attila's son, was killed by Anagastes, general in Thrace. His head was brought to Constantinople, carried in procession through Middle Street, and fixed on a pole at the Wooden Circus. The whole city turned out to look at it.

Interestingly, most of the Roman generals here were barbarians; Aspar was an Alan, Ostrys and Anagastes were Goths, and Chelchal a Hun. On Basiliscus is a "true" Roman, from being from Illyria or Thrace. He was brother in law to the Emperor Zeno. He was later infamous for his his disastrous defeat by the Vandals in 468 and his brief usurpation of the imperial throne from Zeno.

**Joar** · February 24, 2012, 06:44 AM

Very interesting and well written!

**Diocle** · February 24, 2012, 01:49 PM

So this is the origin of the name Chelchal! Very interesting suggestion, and historical period! Chelchal your suggestions are always precious expecially when one (me) does not know nothing about this episode of Hunnic/German/Roman realations!!! +rep!

**Chelchal** · February 24, 2012, 02:28 PM

I have always been interested in the barbarians who chose to serve Roman interests; I like to think they did it out of admiration rather than greed, so I think of them as converts to civilization rather than traitors against their own kind!