[Preview] The Kievan Rus'

[IVIarkI2I]

you blessed my day

[paradamed]

Man, fantastic preview! The damaged effect created with the help of normal maps for the shields is awesome!

[Diocle]

Fantastic! No words! fantastic.....all.....units, shields, banners, research, weapons....really no words!!!
Now I'll begin my '+ rep trip'!! your group is Great!!!

[absinthia]

Kievan Rus' Khaganate??? Comon guys, are you kiddin' me? This is unacceptable. Wiki is a historical source for you???
Oh my God, and Jesus Christ, and Holy Sh..t etc - I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!

are we supposed to take that seriously?
if this is unacceptable to you, then please stay away until you are fit to make proper arguments for your case.

I didnt posted sourses here, so what? I mostly use books to get informations, its more accuracy sourses, in russian books i never read about khagans in kiev))) if some foreign sourses named Kievan Rus "khaganate" its not base to call it like this....

so what?
wikipedia is a source anyone can access and scrutinise, furthermore it is quoted with further sources(often books...).
an unknown book by some unknown author with uncertain credibility is simply an empty argument void of substance.

seriously, TGC is quite open to corrections and critique. but this is not even close to constructive critique.
people has worked months to create the faction previewed here, still some people can not even be bothered to provide even the most modest reference for their claims.
simply stating that "your source is stupid", that will not cut the cheese.

of course it can be debated what title, if any, were officially used in the early Kievan state. so consider that the ruling elite were of Norse decent, to which the title drótt/dróttinn would be the choice for a self-styled king. but i suppose that is not learnt from school text-books either, so then it can not be true.

[Wareg]

Fantasitic units, my favorite faction
In tactic description there is Spears and swords were the preferred weapon while in shield wall formation, as axes were hard to swing in such a tight space
So will axemen use shieldwall or not?

[Perun74]

It is hard to keep the history discussion with those who think a wiki historical source. С'est la vie, we're already accustomed, that someone guided by wiki thinks he knows our history better than us .
But explain to me please, after what you was guided when you give the name of units? You use russian words that have a some significance like "Latniki" (Латники), "Velmozhe" (Вельможи), but when I look at the pictures I don't see for example warriors "Latniki". "Latniki" comes from "Laty", which means in translation plate armor.
But this one "Druzhina Khazar" just kill me
Guys, just look at the pictures of reconstructor-painters like Gorelik and others, and you'll see how you're wrong, for example when you give to russ warriors rectangular shields.
I was admired your mod and waited impatiently, but now I'm just very very sorry

[torzsoktamas]

How come a nice preview thread like this got infested by trolls this fast and this seriously?

[BURNY26]

AWESOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMME (in a highly pitched tone) So glad Im able to contribute to this übermod!

[koultouras]

it is with great discontent that i see
too little creative thinking here....
Ok so if the term "khaganate" is wrong (the correctness of which i cant confirm cuz there are far more experts than me here)
i see little alternative proposed and massive insults spoken out....
At least spare us some dignity and give us an alternate, instead of monopolizing the
debate by trying to make a fool out of ourselves with claims of unhistorical-ity etc.
We can accept citisism , we can accept arguments when we may have made a mistake(NOT MEANING THAT WE HAVE ALREADY BTW) and we can
correct some things
BUT i wont (actually WE) can not accept claims of taking historical acurracy light-heartedly or claims that
we havent researched enough....(I reassure u we researched extensively)
(BTW since i made some of the roster i wish i could show u my research files but it either includes copywrited matterial or is very large to be uploaded
and all that just for the bodyguards/the khazar allies/the mounted nobles and the peasantry units )

[Heathen Storm]

It is hard to keep the history discussion with those who think a wiki historical source. С'est la vie, we're already accustomed, that someone guided by wiki thinks he knows our history better than us .
But explain to me please, after what you was guided when you give the name of units? You use russian words that have a some significance like "Latniki" (Латники), "Velmozhe" (Вельможи), but when I look at the pictures I don't see for example warriors "Latniki". "Latniki" comes from "Laty", which means in translation plate armor.
But this one "Druzhina Khazar" just kill me
Guys, just look at the pictures of reconstructor-painters like Gorelik and others, and you'll see how you're wrong, for example when you give to russ warriors rectangular shields.
I was admired your mod and waited impatiently, but now I'm just very very sorry

http://www.strangelove.net/~kieser/R...smilitary.html
Here are my sources for names. Unfortunately, as far as I could find there is no translated name for Khazar in Russian, it is simply Khazar. If I'm wrong about this please feel free to correct me because I am not Russian nor do I speak it.
About units, I did not create them so I cannot comment.
If you have criticism, I ask that you please use it constructively instead of trying to degrade the very hard workers of this mod.

To everyone else; thank you for your praise!

Fantasitic units, my favorite faction
In tactic description there is Spears and swords were the preferred weapon while in shield wall formation, as axes were hard to swing in such a tight space
So will axemen use shieldwall or not?

I do not believe they will. From testing, I cannot recall either the Varjazi or the Vikingar using shield wall.

[beos777]

propably, when this mod will be released..i will start my first campaign with this faction...Awesome preview guys...

[AnthoniusII]

It is hard to keep the history discussion with those who think a wiki historical source. С'est la vie, we're already accustomed, that someone guided by wiki thinks he knows our history better than us .
But explain to me please, after what you was guided when you give the name of units? You use russian words that have a some significance like "Latniki" (Латники), "Velmozhe" (Вельможи), but when I look at the pictures I don't see for example warriors "Latniki". "Latniki" comes from "Laty", which means in translation plate armor.
But this one "Druzhina Khazar" just kill me
Guys, just look at the pictures of reconstructor-painters like Gorelik and others, and you'll see how you're wrong, for example when you give to russ warriors rectangular shields.
I was admired your mod and waited impatiently, but now I'm just very very sorry

I am sorry that rectangular shields disapointed you...
Then historians that refer to those shields are wrong...
And so the creator of that model created a fictional one!

More info in a while!

[absinthia]

But explain to me please, after what you was guided when you give the name of units? You use russian words that have a some significance like "Latniki" (Латники), but when I look at the pictures I don't see for example warriors "Latniki". "Latniki" comes from "Laty", which means in translation plate armor.

i might be misinterpreting the title and the cover image:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Heathen Storm]

Kievan Rus' Khaganate??? Comon guys, are you kiddin' me? This is unacceptable. Wiki is a historical source for you???
Oh my God, and Jesus Christ, and Holy Sh..t etc - I CAN'T BELIEVE IT!!!

what is this nonsense ? You know a little history? Kievan Rus was never "Khaganate"!

For all who are saying that a "khaganate" is wrong;

Here are three sources so far that I have found that mention the NORTHMAN or RHOS khagan -
- The Frankish Annals of St. Bertin
- A letter between Basil I and Louis II, now preserved in the Salerno Chronicle
- And finally, several Muslim sources. For now, I'll give you Hudud Al-Alam, a geography from an anonymous writer in the 10th century.

I invite you to read any of these and if you find a reason to prove me wrong, please tell me and I will gladly change it.

[T&D]

Hey Shredder Kievan was only as Khaganate for a short time-I think...
In history were many strange things.
PS: great previev and reps...

[lDiesel]

WTF? Russia never was a "Khaganate"! Completly historically wrong:
1)Russian are slavic people, not swedish or norse
2)Russians didn't trust in Odin and Thor, reda this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_mythology
I can guarantee everything i said about, because I'm russian, and I know history of my nation.

[markhaselb]

To the Russians complaining about Khaganate:
Probably your history lessons begin after the period of the Khaganate, simply because it would hurt the Russian pride to admit that their ancestors took the titles of Steppe people (which they detest nowadays).

It is akin to saying that German history begins with the first Holy Roman Emperor Otto I, denying that his ancestors were French/Frankish who had a vast and important empire themselves.

[lDiesel]

Our history lessons starts before period of Rorik.

[Tureuki]

That beautiful preview thread filled by full of nationalist fails

[Constantius]

That is ridiculous so because your Russian you know everything about Russia