[Preview] The Kievan Rus'

[Scolot]

Which doesn't necessarily mean the Rus are Slavs. As I said, a number of Arab authors say there are also three groups of (Volga) Bulgars, only one of which is actual Bulgars and the other two (Barsil and Esegel) are non-Bulgar subjects (later two more such groups are added by other authors, btw). IMO, it's neither a proof for or against.

Yes. Of course, it doesn't necessarily mean the Rus are Slavs (otherwise so-called 'Varangian question' would be resolved long ago not in favor of Normanists). But on the other hand, this evidence indicates that the Arabs not only distinguished but also identified Slavs with Rus'. And I posted that three sources in response to the words: "Arabs also had a huge knowlege of slavic people but their scholars "forced" to create unique descriptions for Rus ,diferent from those they had for slavic people..Why? Did they make a mistake too?"

Does the original text use "knaz" or is that from the Russian translations of the text? Btw, keep in mind the Danubian Bulgars have used the similar title "kanas" ("kanasubigi", which gets divided to "kanas ubigi", since one inscription uses the form "archonubigi").

Khordadbeh said (sorry for russian):

§73 в. Если говорить о купцах ар-Рус,
то это одна из разновидностей (джинс) славян. Они доставляют заячьи шкурки, шкурки черных лисиц и мечи из самых отдаленных [окраин страны] славян к Румийскому морю. Владетель (сахиб) ар-Рума взимает с них десятину (ушр). Если они отправляются по Танису 146 — реке славян, то проезжают мимо Хамлиджа, города хазар. Их владетель (сахиб) также взимает с них десятину. Затем они отправляются по морю Джурджан и высаживаются на любом берегу. Окружность этого моря 500 ф 147. Иногда они везут свои товары от Джурджана до Багдада на верблюдах. Переводчиками [для] них являются славянские слуги-евнухи (хадам). Они утверждают, что они христиане и платят подушную подать (джизью).
...
146. Танис, или Донус — р. Дон.

http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus2/H...frametext8.htm

§ 10. Титулы владык Земли 139
Владыка ал-Ирака, которого простонародье называет Кисрой, [носит титул] шаханшах 140. Владыка ар-Рума, которого простонародье называет Кайсар, — Басил 141. Все владыки тюрок, тибетцев и хазар — хаканы 142, кроме владыки карлуков (ал-харлух), которого называют джабгуйа 143, а владыка ас-Син — Багбур 144. Все эти владыки — потомки Афризуна. Величайший владыка Большого [61] Хинда (ал-Хинд ал-Акбар) — балхара, т. е. владыка владык 145. Титул джаба 146 носят владыки ат-Тафина 147, ал-Джурза 148, Габы 149, Рахмы 150 и Камаруна 151, которые являются владыками земель ал-Хинда. Владыка аз-Забаджа 152 носит титул фатиджаб, (с. 17), владыка ан-Нубы — кабил 153, владыка ал-Хабаша — ан-наджаши 154, владыка островов Восточного моря (ал-бахр аш-шарки) — ал-махарадж 155, владыка ас-Сакалиба — кназ 156.

http://www.vostlit.info/Texts/rus2/H...frametext1.htm
We have:
1) Title 'knyaz'
2) Localisation near Don-river
So it couldn't be southern Slavs

[NikeBG]

Interesting, thanks!

[Perun74]

Some music fo Rus faction

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[AnthoniusII]

Very nice findings my friend.
Are those free to use though? In order to use them they must not protected by rights and must be free to use.

[Perun74]

Are those free to use though? In order to use them they must not protected by rights and must be free to use.

Well, I don't know. I thought modmakers don't need consent from music authors for use their music in mods. I've played many mods+submods (DLV, SS, Bellum Crucis, Broken Crescent etc) and I don't think that modmakers has approval from Hans Zimmer, James Horner or any another composer.

[AnthoniusII]

Well, I don't know. I thought modmakers don't need consent from music authors for use their music in mods. I've played many mods+submods (DLV, SS, Bellum Crucis, Broken Crescent etc) and I don't think that modmakers has approval from Hans Zimmer, James Horner or any another composer.

True but that the rights issue exists.
But we can make some contacts when time will come!
Thank you again my friend..

[Perun74]

True but that the rights issue exists.
But we can make some contacts when time will come!
Thank you again my friend..

My pleasure. If you're interested, that project call Hvarna and here you can find their all concert:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ackFYMfTTYw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDB4E7Hbb64
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKqM7zNowgs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1m6VqL8ol-k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YgSt6NLqX4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HnDt9GoDdI0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9gz6oHycow

[Son of Serbia]

On the matter of Norse involvement in the founding of Russian state:



Based on the work (the book, named "History of the Russian State") of N. M. Karamzin, Russian historian (for those who find Wikipedia unreliable: I am not trying to give you sources on the historian in question, I want to show you what (or rather who) is the source that this video (and the next 499 that follow) is based upon, so I just put in Mr. Karamzin's short biography, in order to get you acquainted with him ).

The translation:

"The great nations, much like great men, have their period of youth (childhood), and they ought not to be ashamed of it. Our fatherland, weak, divided into small realms, until the year 862, according to Nestor's chronology, owes it's greatness to introduction of monarchical rule." Nikolay Mikhailovich Karamzin.

The year of 862. Northern Slavs, residents of Novgorod, and the lands belonging to it, have now been in confrontation with warlike Viking tribes for a long time, amongst which Nestor the Chronicler recognizes Swedes, Normans, Gotlanders, and also those Vikings that were named - Rus'. There is enough basis to presume that Vikings, having submitted some of the Slavic tribes to their authority, ruled them without tyranny and violence, collected low taxes (tributes), and were just and fair in general.

The Slavic Boyars, unsatisfied with conqueror's authority, that weakened and destroyed their own, probably perturbed the whole people, taking advantage in their inconsiderateness, deceived them with thoughts of former independence, armed them against the Normans, and drove them out of their lands.

However, soon enough, quarrels and confrontations began to rise amongst the liberated tribes. Unable to settle their internal affairs, the Slavs heeded the counsel of Novgorod's head, Gostomysl, and requested a ruler from their yesterday's enemies. Nestor further writes that the Slavs of Novgorod, Krivichi, Ves' and Chud' (the names of nearby tribes), sent an emissary to Vikings - the Rus' tribe, to tell them: "Our land is great and abundant, but there is no order in it. Come and be our Princes (the word knyaz (more specifically, "княжить" (knyazhit') - to rule as a knyaz) is used here), and rule over us." This is how, in Karamzin's opinion, in 862, the history of the Russian empire begun to unfold.

Three brothers, the Princes of Varangian (Viking) Rus' tribe, came to Slavic lands, with their Scandinavian druzhinas (bands, companions). The eldest of the brothers, Ryurik (Rorik), arrived at Novgorod; Sineus at Beloozero, in the realm of Finnish people, the Ves'. The last one, Truvor, arrived at Izborsk. These lands were hence named Rus', in honor of the new Princes, the Rus' Vikings. Two years later, in 864, after Sineus and Truvor died, their eldest brother, Ryurik, uniting the lands of his brothers with his own principality, founded the Russian monarchy. Furthermore, he incorporated the surroundings of Chudskoe and Ladozhskoe lakes, some of the Finnish tribes, and the people of Ves', Merya, Muroma were eventually Slavicised, taking Slavic customs, language, and faith.

The Chronicler mentions one more, equally important event in this period of history. Two of Rorik's countrymen, named Askold and Dir, perhaps unsatisfied with their knyaz, embarked on a journey from Novgorod to Constantinople with their companions, to seek fortune. They saw a small town on a high coastal ground of Dnieper, and asked whose town it was. They were replied: it's founders, the three brothers, died a long time ago, and the peace-loving townsmen are paying tribute to Khazars. This little town was - Kiev.

Askold and Dir imposed their authority on the town, and took nearby lands under their reign. This way, in the second half of the ninth century, Varyags founded two autocratic realms in the Slavic lands - Ryurik in the north, in Novgorod, Askold and Dir in the south, in Kiev.

Primarily, the aim of Askold's and Dir's journey to Constantinople was to get in service of Byzantine emperor. Now, encouraged by their success, they boldly proclaimed themselves the enemies of the Greeks. Experienced in sailing, they gathered an army, equipped 200 ships, and set sail for the Black Sea, moving down the Dnieper.

I've only seen a couple of episodes, but it looks pretty interesting. I suppose subtitled videos can't be found on YT, but there are bound to be subtitles somewhere in the net.

Anyhow, even when the Rus' introduced the title of khagan, could it be possible that both the (velikiy) knyaz and the khagan titles were used simultaneously, as synonyms? Also, according to what I posted here, the Norse people were invited to rule the Slavic lands. The aristocrats (I'll call them that) came with their companions, and there must've been more merging, but the main bulk of people were Slavs, not the Norse. As a matter of fact, the Viking overlords did bring their ways of warfare with them, but they eventually came to adopt the Slavic ways (in sense of culture, faith, language).

Cheers to everyone, and I liked the preview a lot.



P.S. Pay no attention to eventual typos (typed in haste) and grammar mistakes (I know my English is not perfect).

[NikeBG]

[/I]I've only seen a couple of episodes, but it looks pretty interesting. I suppose subtitled videos can't be found on YT, but there are bound to be subtitles somewhere in the net.

Aye, they're quite interesting series. And, woah, from the related videos I see there's also a "History of Ukraine" made in the very same style (though doesn't seem exactly accurate - f.e. the Cimmerians are shown as Chengizid Mongols).

Anyhow, even when the Rus' introduced the title of khagan, could it be possible that both the (velikiy) knyaz and the khagan titles were used simultaneously, as synonyms? Also, according to what I posted here, the Norse people were invited to rule the Slavic lands. The aristocrats (I'll call them that) came with their companions, and there must've been more merging, but the main bulk of people were Slavs, not the Norse. As a matter of fact, the Viking overlords did bring their ways of warfare with them, but they eventually came to adopt the Slavic ways (in sense of culture, faith, language).

It's not only possible, but (IMO) it's probable that the two titles would've been used simultaneously. Though I wonder if they already used "knyaz" or were still with "riga" (see Simocatta about Musokios).
Though note that Karamzin is very, very outdated (2 centuries old, after all), so his theses offered in the video are relatively disputed in modern Russian historiography (be it for political reasons or not), although the Norman theory is still the official one, AFAIK.

[AnthoniusII]

No matter how accurate the video is it can provide interesting building UI cards.

[Wareg]

Why didn't you craete unit of bersekers?

[demagogos nicator]

Great preview, Kievan Rus seems to be very interesting faction indeed. Just one question: should not be the basic (non-upgraded) version of Vikingar more lightly armoured?

[AnthoniusII]

Great preview, Kievan Rus seems to be very interesting faction indeed. Just one question: should not be the basic (non-upgraded) version of Vikingar more lightly armoured?

Actually you are right..We notticed that and Vikingar are lightler armored at their tier 1.
What you see is their upgrade.