improved pikemen modification, reduced radius.

[Valiant Champion]

EDU for version 1.5.1

This contains all the changes for pikemen to have the reduced radius which makes them keep formation much better.

EDU for version 1.5.1

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/attac...1&d=1338180981

EDU for version 1.5.1


give alex gold rep for rediscovering the hidden radius and height values carried over from rtw

You must get past some of the posts before you get to the main part of the thread dealing with radius and height values in the soldier line of EDU entries.

after reading this first post and reveiwing the sample EDU you can skip on down to post 32 and check from there on what this thead is about.

I will on a regular basis update the example of a pike edu entry for the republican guard pikemen as a model to go by to mod the other pike units in the call of warhammer mod or for that matter any total war mod.

The ignorantly overlooked Radius and height values may have the potential to open an entirely new dimension to balancing units in the game. Even if the reality only improves things a little to me its worth exploring.


type Republican Guard Pikeman
dictionary Republican_Guard_Pikeman
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type light
banner faction banner_Ricco
banner holy crusade
soldier Republican_Guard_Pikeman, 50, 0, 4, 0.25, 2
mount_effect horse +4, camel +4
attributes sea_faring, can_withdraw, pike, mercenary_unit
move_speed_mod 0.9
formation 0.4, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square, phalanx
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 13, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.6
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_8
stat_sec 7, 4, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 10, 4, 0, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 2
stat_ground 0, -2, -5, -2
stat_mental 11, disciplined, trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 1500, 300, 100, 100, 1500, 1, 550
armour_ug_levels 5
armour_ug_models Republican_Guard_Pikeman
ownership slave, hre, papal_states, portugal, spain, scotland, sicily, milan, venice, saxons, byzantium, france, kalmar_union
recruit_priority_offset 30

orange is the hidden radius value

, blue is the hidden height value

, green is spacing width,

1.8 spacing depth is kept to maintain second rank standoff solution.

increased attack (green too )to swiss pikemen, aventuros value of 13

increase mass (yellow) to 4 to protect against enemy charge bonus kills (a bug where an enemy charge is transferred through the pike and kills the pikemen even though the enemy is still at the end of the pike)

[The Holy Pilgrim]

What's this?

A tighter formation for pikemen? Do they use a secondary weapon more efficiently now?

[paradamed]

Im curious too. What is it supposed to do?

[Valiant Champion]

try it. It must have all the settings exactly like it shows including the extra soldier behind the ;

or just add............ ; name of soldier........... next to the soldier and mass line

modify spacing ................0.5, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 3.................. on your formation line

of the pike unit you want to give the modification to

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or just check out the tutorial

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=519849

[Reiksfart]

This is great info, thanks for sharing.

Will run more tests later but so far looks as though we now have fixed pikes. Huge improvement, anyway.

[Valiant Champion]

the descr_projectiles will need at least a radius of 0.1 on all projectiles cause the pikemen dont have a radius themselves. That was the only way to crack the 0.8 minimum. I don't see a problem with this although I may be corrected at a later date. who knows.

[Reiksfart]

The only problem with the fix is it makes pikes supremely powerful, even when they switch to secondary weapon. Watching them all pile up and swing their weapons through each other is quite a sight, but is way overpowered. I just watched nuln pikes slaughter khorne chosen in this way.

Going to take a lot of testing and balancing, but pikes are certainly fixed now.

Damn it, I already can't keep myself working on one part of my campaign, keep switching between models, EDU, other coding, splash screens and main screens. Now this!

Thanks though.

[Valiant Champion]

I just now realized what you are talking about. I have been testing alcatani using swords only against graveguards and they utterly slaughtered them. I am thinking two things. One is that they are harder to hit. The other is that they do not have the radius of their comrade to hold them back so they can literally pile up on the enemy while the enemy cannot. I tried reducing the attack on secondary to 2 but they are still killer. I tried the melee delay at 1.85 , 3 and 4 but I don't think it is working. I wonder what the hard code setting for melee stat is. It could be I am using a too high number and its going back to 1 as a default.

If this can't be resolved than I guess it will be a uber mod for pike lovers only.

out of spearwall as the enemy numbers decrease the pike unit continually piles on more and more til its the entire regiment making hits on one enemy soldier.

[Reiksfart]

I've balanced nuln pikemen down so they lose to chaos warriors of khorne. If anyone looked at their new stats they would not want to take them....but they are still overpowered because they can be totally surrounded and still fight as effectively as if they were just fighting from the front. So I've had to lower morale and discipline down to low. It's one of those units which no stat formula can work with. A few of those units in CoW because of differing animations.

This is all testing with guard mode off, even though in my submod spears start with guard mode on, I need to test with off since the player can disable that.

Will test against chaos knights in a while. Fingers crossed the result is good enough or it's back to square one.

[Kolwen]

I have been testing it and it's seems not effective for me with the guard mode enabled. They just stand not attacking until they lose the formation. Strange :\

[lekseus]

Valiant Champion, can you upload video with radiusless units?

[Valiant Champion]

one thing a person can do is drop their defence significantly. I haven't tried this yet but it may help.

the more you weaken the swords and the defense the more easily the spearwall falls apart until you are left with a spearwall that breaks down as fast as vanilla.

I suppose that resistance to death and the ability to attack well in the secondary animation helps to keep the pike wielding men to hold on to their pikes longer.

[Valiant Champion]

HA HA. Now I am getting somewhere!

you can still have a radius but you can make it smaller, the possiblities are endless.

try this

DO NOT NEED to modify descr_projectiles (you wont need to)cause as the unit now has a radius a bullet without mass can hit it.

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modify these two lines in your edu entry for republican guard

tab space not included just a place holder as I can't create proper format in my post

soldier (tab space)Republican_Guard_Pikeman, 50, 0, 1.5, 0.25


formation (tab space)0.5, 1.8, 2.4, 2.4, 3, square, phalanx

or even smaller such as

0.2 on the soldier line

and 0.4 on the file space

[Reiksfart]

Very nice Champ.

No time to test fully right now but looks like you have found the solution.

[Valiant Champion]

was not topic related

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

You amaze me as always!

[Iguanaonastick]

Interesting. I've tried tricks like this, but never thought to take them -out- of phalanx mode.

What happens if infantry charges the line, though? Do the pikes get massacred or...

[Valiant Champion]

was not topic related

[Ichon]

It does not work as well from flank attack- think of its as stakes and it work better. Also the pikes are usually numerous remaining effective even with 50% losses so taking some of the fire instead of pavise/archers helps in archery duels.

[machotacoman]

why is this called "Cat in the Hat"?