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Thread: Features of RSII and EB

  1. #1
    kostas84's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Features of RSII and EB

    Hello, as Aradan requested, heres a cool list of features, that in my opinion, make RSII and EB a blast to play.

    1. Very cool and historical scripted events.
    2. Huge map with a big amount of provinces.
    3. A very big amount of factions to play as.
    4. A lot of buildings to build, each, with its own history and bonuses.
    5. AI a lot more challenging.
    6. Very good-looking water.
    7. Extremely cool-looking cities.
    8. Large unit variety, each faction has its own unique units and its own benefits for playing said faction.
    9. Battles last longer and cavalry isnt as OP as in other mods, tactics, such as flanking attacks, give an advantage, as they should, but they are more crucial in those mods.
    10. Reforms that keep the game exciting.

    These are all that i can pull off the top of my head atm, as more come that i havent listed, ill edit this post.

  2. #2
    Éorl's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    I'd like to address your points - and please bear in mind that my response is in no way meant to demean EB or RS2, on the contrary, they have unique strengths, as do many mods.

    1. Very cool and historical scripted events.
    It has always been the policy of FATW to not use scripted events and backround scripts. There's a long thought process behind that decision. It slows down the game, but more importantly, it breaks the sense of accomplishment for the player, which we feel is an important element in a good game, and also for an open historical background like in Dominion of Men.

    2. Huge map with a big amount of provinces.
    Contrary to common belief, huge is not always better, not by a long shot. A map should be tailored to the setting, and while providing strategic challenges, not be boring because of huge distances (and turns of gameplay) to be covered until you get toe-to-toe with an enemy. AI campaignmap pathfinding is also an important aspect to be considered. What's more, we have labored hard to provide you with a map that will bring you battlemap vistas that every fan of Tolkiens work will immediately recognise. For example, if you fight a battle on the Pelennor Fields, you can see the dark looming Mordor Mountains on the horizon to the east. If you make the map bigger, you loose such features because the are too far away to be visible on the offmap areas during a battle.

    3. A very big amount of factions to play as.
    The amount of factions for Dominion of Men has increased exponentially to the area covered by the campaign map, i.e. the whole of Middle-earth.

    4. A lot of buildings to build, each, with its own history and bonuses.
    You will be amazed at what you can 'build' in Dominion of Men, and I not only mean new and unique buildings. Aradan has coded his ass off with this (and still is), and Dominion of Men will bring something new to the RTW modding table wrt new and unique gameplay features.

    5. AI a lot more challenging.
    Repeat Aradans long labor in the dungeans of FATW, see above!

    6. Very good-looking water.
    I've made new water effects already two years ago and previewed them in our original home forum. I guess this is a good precedent to preview them again here.

    7. Extremely cool-looking cities.


    8. Large unit variety, each faction has its own unique units and its own benefits for playing said faction.
    This is (even more than it was) a hallmark of FATW. You even get alternate roosters for certain factions which tie neatly in with the background and campaign features.

    9. Battles last longer and cavalry isnt as OP as in other mods, tactics, such as flanking attacks, give an advantage, as they should, but they are more crucial in those mods.
    Well, it is Aradan who is the master of unit balancing, and who even created a balancing tool that makes it easy to address these things. Also, some cavalry in Middle-earth simply IS awesome (can you say Rohirrim?).

    10. Reforms that keep the game exciting.
    Dominion of Men is so full of features that you can control as a player that we see no need (and more importantly, don't find incentive in the rich lore established by Tolkien) for reforms to keep you excited.

    In short - we spent a lot, a lot of time on this, and it surely isn't wasted.
    Last edited by Éorl; February 02, 2012 at 05:42 AM.
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    This looks pretty amazing .

    Mundus Bellicus - TWC - ModDB - Discord - Steam
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Quote Originally Posted by Éorl View Post
    You will be amazed at what you can 'build' in Dominion of Men, and I not only mean new and unique buildings. Aradan has coded his ass off with this (and still is), and Dominion of Men will bring something new to the RTW modding table wrt new and unique gameplay features.
    More details, pls.


    Quote Originally Posted by Éorl View Post
    I remember Aradan saying something about customisation of some aspects of the battle-map settlements. Is that what you are referring to? Tell us more!



    Quote Originally Posted by Éorl View Post
    Well, it was Aradan who is the master of unit balancing, and who even created a balancing tool that makes it easy to address these things.
    I'd be lost without Aradan's EDU guide. And as kostas is familiar with EB: the EB team is using a modified version of Aradan's EDUmatic for EBII. And wasn't he, or someone else from the FATW, also somehow involed in unit balancing for EB1? (not sure about this one)


    Quote Originally Posted by Éorl View Post
    In short - we spent a lot, a lot of time on this, and it surely isn't wasted.
    I'm most utterly positive it's not.

    @kostas: You should go through the entire screenshot thread (it's not that long) and look at the images, that Eorl posted there. Then you'll get a good impression how great DoM will look like. And I'm sure the content will be equally impressive.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Quote Originally Posted by Casual Tactician View Post
    More details, pls.
    Not yet.


    I'd be lost without Aradan's EDU guide. And as kostas is familiar with EB: the EB team is using a modified version of Aradan's EDUmatic for EBII. And wasn't he, or someone else from the FATW, also somehow involed in unit balancing for EB1? (not sure about this one)
    Certain submods for EB use the guide as reference to justify various changes, but officially no, they only contacted me about the auto-resolve balance. Involved with EB was MasterOfNone, who was the one who modfoldered it, at the request of the EB team.

  6. #6
    kostas84's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    "Bigger doesnt always mean better" - Eorl

    While this is true, having a small map has its downsides too.

    The campaign may end too quickly.
    Factions boarder with each other too fast, causing the break of alliances, and world-wide and unwanted wars.

    I realise that in DoM these will be fixed, im just ponting this out to you.

  7. #7
    Éorl's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    The campaign may end too quickly.
    Factions boarder with each other too fast, causing the break of alliances, and world-wide and unwanted wars.
    Aradan managed to do stuff with alliances that no other mod has, yet!
    I read this so called Bible, and found it to be a third rate story in which this so called 'jesus' is nothing more than a shameless lampooning of Brian, which has inspired joy and laughter in millions.
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  8. #8
    Thangaror's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Quote Originally Posted by Éorl View Post
    Contrary to common belief, huge is not always better, not by a long shot. A map should be tailored to the setting, and while providing strategic challenges, not be boring because of huge distances (and turns of gameplay) to be covered until you get toe-to-toe with an enemy. AI campaignmap pathfinding is also an important aspect to be considered. What's more, we have labored hard to provide you with a map that will bring you battlemap vistas that every fan of Tolkiens work will immediately recognise. For example, if you fight a battle on the Pelennor Fields, you can see the dark looming Mordor Mountains on the horizon to the east. If you make the map bigger, you loose such features because the are too far away to be visible on the offmap areas during a battle.
    So true. That's why I do not really like RTR for example. The map is waaaaay too huge. It takes an army like 10 turns to cross Italy from Apulia to the Po valley. The number of provinces is also too high. Together with the incredibly long recruitment and building times and the quite small amount of income, the mod's pace becomes so slow and IMHO boring.

    TNS map has, regarding the small number of factions, exactly the correct size and the correct amount of provinces. Maybe here and there another province would have been nice (eastern Harondor, Rhovanion, Rhûn) but taken together it's good as it is now.
    I would rather have a memory that is fair but unfinished than one that goes on to a grievous end.

  9. #9
    kostas84's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Well, RSII has huge movements of armies and 0 turn recruiment which is balanced nicely and a huge map.

    Having a big map also gives a better sense of satisfaction when you conquer a large portion of it, and having to face multiple nations from many fronts.

    You can also do reforms with a big map, having reforms to look forward to gives the faction who has the reforms a bigger variety of troops and gives players something to look forward to when conquering the map.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    How do reforms have anything to do with the size of the map? You can have reforms with 1 province and a 10x10 map if you want... Multiple reforms, actually, for multiple factions.

    Also, the 0-turn recruitment results in a total spam-fest of stacks. This seems to be some people's cup of tea, but I personally dislike it; it gets boring quickly, it makes huge battles meaningless (since there are 10 every turn) and makes strategy obsolete.

    As for wars on many fronts, again, you don't need a large map for that, you simply need factions that are not at the corners of the map. If one has a medium-sized map and calibrates movement points carefully, you can still "enjoy" having to run from one border of your faction to the other in order to catch up with invasions.

  11. #11
    kostas84's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Reforms that are too easy to achieve arent satisfying.

    In the case of a huge map and 0 turn recruitment, its used to speed things up in terms of map conquest, i am neutral about it, EB is also good and has a big amount of provinces and tons of reforms that arent easy to achieve or too hard(some are hard but still awesome).

    I just dont know what to say, it just feels better for me with a bigger map and is more satisfying when conquering, i cant explain it.
    Last edited by kostas84; February 02, 2012 at 03:24 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    The difficulty of the reforms also has little to do with the size of the map. They can be tied to anything, settlement levels, number of captured/total settlements, the existence of specific buildings in specific settlements, etc. Map size doesn't come into the equation.

    That said, I understand what you're saying, I prefer a bigger-than-medium map too; which is what we have in DoM, the map is more than twice the size of the TNS map and it will feel good carving an empire on it.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    I've read somewhere that there is a tool allowing new fonts in RTW mods. I know that some mods, like RTR VII, have already used this feature to add more originality and immersion. I think it would be a nice feature to have more Tolkien-ish fonts in FATW, isn't it ?

    I assume it's a tool from EB team, but I can't find the link in my favories.

    Mundus Bellicus - TWC - ModDB - Discord - Steam
    ~ Patronized by Gaius Baltar, son of the Great Family of imb39, of the House of Garbarsardar, of the Noble House of Wilpuri.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    That's a tool for M2 only, unless I am mistaken.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    I checked and you're right, it's a tool for M2. And about RTR it was only a change regarding fonts in event windows .

    Mundus Bellicus - TWC - ModDB - Discord - Steam
    ~ Patronized by Gaius Baltar, son of the Great Family of imb39, of the House of Garbarsardar, of the Noble House of Wilpuri.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Features of RSII and EB

    Quote Originally Posted by Nelduin View Post
    I assume it's a tool from EB team, but I can't find the link in my favories.
    Perhaps this?


    Quote Originally Posted by Aradan View Post
    Also, the 0-turn recruitment results in a total spam-fest of stacks. This seems to be some people's cup of tea, but I personally dislike it; it gets boring quickly, it makes huge battles meaningless (since there are 10 every turn) and makes strategy obsolete.
    0-turn recuitment and massive AI stack spam are not my cup of tea either.

    Quote Originally Posted by kostas84 View Post
    In the case of a huge map[...]
    The scale in TNS is, all in all, fine imo. If you have a look at this map you can see that, for example, Minas Tirith and Minas Ithil (Minas Morgul) weren't very far apart of each other - not even half the distance Rome-Capua. And after all the map will be enlarged for DoM.


    From what I've seen and read here, it looks like the DoM is going to be a grand mod. But in the end it's impossible to satisfy everyone, doesn't matter what one does. I trust the team to make the right decisions, and I'm sure they'll do a great job... once again!
    Last edited by Casual Tactician; February 02, 2012 at 05:12 PM.

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