Spanish factions are weak

**Cyprexinia** · January 29, 2012, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by RomanKiller

Historically the numbers were about even and many times the "Moors" defeated much larger forces. But the reality was that most of their population was always christian

The only reason the "reconquista" was even successful was because of the breach of treaties from the christian side, not because of their military prowess or anything

Not to sound bad but the Moors fought with larger numbers most of the time and even used slaves for fighting. The Moors were pretty organized and had terrorized most of Iberia for sometime. The Christian forces used a lot of guerrilla warfare and weren't united most of the time. For the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa many forces had to join together to fight the Moors, if the moors weren't a large force then they wouldn't need to join up. The problem was during that time none of the Christian rulers were united and this is pretty evenly displayed in SS. When the spanish forces aren't united, the Moors beat them. When united they beat the Moors. It's no secret the Moors used many berbers some arabs, moroccains and slaves from africa.

**PerXX** · January 30, 2012, 07:31 AM

Originally Posted by Cyprexinia

Not to sound bad but the Moors fought with larger numbers most of the time and even used slaves for fighting. The Moors were pretty organized and had terrorized most of Iberia for sometime. The Christian forces used a lot of guerrilla warfare and weren't united most of the time. For the Battle of Las Navas de Tolosa many forces had to join together to fight the Moors, if the moors weren't a large force then they wouldn't need to join up. The problem was during that time none of the Christian rulers were united and this is pretty evenly displayed in SS. When the spanish forces aren't united, the Moors beat them. When united they beat the Moors. It's no secret the Moors used many berbers some arabs, moroccains and slaves from africa.

Look into RomanKiller's posts and you'll find they're generally wrong and very biased.

**Jaylo** · January 30, 2012, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by BlackDragon1032

Why are the Spanish factions so weak?

It seems that the AI can't play as the Spanish but all the other factions he can handle

The Moors are overpowerd and the Spanish factions are underpowerd

You are kidding right?
Ok maybe at the very begining of the game, but the Sicilians & slightly later the Genoans, always sail across the med & take the Moorish coastal cities which the Moors seem completely unable to defend as they're fighting the Iberians.
The Moors end up in a vice with inevitable results, i actually end up having to keep them alive.

**Aeratus** · January 30, 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by Cyprexinia

I will agree tho, the Spanish AI sucks.. same with the Crusader States.. they always lose almost every single battle which is kind of confusing to me. They shouldn't be steam rolled so quickly every game.

Just like how it's inaccurate for Moors to be steamrolling everyone, I think it's completely accurate to have Crusader States be steamrolled.

**Ichon** · January 30, 2012, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Aeratus

Just like how it's inaccurate for Moors to be steamrolling everyone, I think it's completely accurate to have Crusader States be steamrolled.

But Moors rarely steamroll everyone and when they do it is usually because Catholics attacked each other opposite of what happened in history. Perhaps Catholic Iberian factions should start with higher relations but within MTW2 engine its difficult to make Moors less united and Iberians more when its 1 vs 3 factions. The taifas of the Moors were as often allying with nearby Christians as nearby Moors and versa. Only the constant support of the Pope and France allowed Iberians to withstand Moors which rarely happens in game. I think Moors should probably be a higher priority for Crusades and initial Iberian/Papal/French relations should all be quite high. Overtime they will fall but it should keep Moors from steamrolling in those few cases they get an early advantage so quickly.

**Ferdiad** · January 30, 2012, 03:57 PM

Moors have their backs to the wall so to speak, so they can concentrate solely on Iberia and sometimes Egypt. This means in like 20% of games they will get all the way up to Frankfurt in 100 turns.

**General500** · January 30, 2012, 05:41 PM

I'm wondering if some people even read his post... He was saying that the AI when controlling the Moors, dominate Spain.

And this is 100% true, they usually eat away at Portugal and the rest of the Spanish countries...

**Ferdiad** · January 30, 2012, 06:42 PM

Not really, Moors fail a lot of the time.

**General500** · January 30, 2012, 11:10 PM

^ Really? Well usually in my campaigns they always dominate Spain.

**Judeman266** · January 30, 2012, 11:41 PM

If you read all the posts it clearly states that if the Iberian factions are fighting among themselves then the Moors will dominate. If the Iberians are united than the Moors have no shot at success.

**k/t** · February 03, 2012, 01:33 AM

"But no, I love Iberic factions because you can AP the enemy to death. Javilneers have better stats than any of the militia trash. Plus you can chuck AP at the enenmy on horsaeback as well as on foot."

Javelins don't have AP.

**RollingWave** · February 03, 2012, 02:00 AM

If you play a faction far from the area typically Moors win due to auto calcs and the fact that they're simply much more wealthy, and that the Spanish factions themself tend to fight amongst themself as well . But actual unit wise the Moors in pure 6.4 is pretty damn crappy and the Spanish factions damn good

**GiddeeUpp** · February 03, 2012, 07:40 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

"But no, I love Iberic factions because you can AP the enemy to death. Javilneers have better stats than any of the militia trash. Plus you can chuck AP at the enenmy on horsaeback as well as on foot."

Javelins don't have AP.

You sure? Sure seems like they do, they rip right through generals.

**Judeman266** · February 03, 2012, 11:13 AM

@GiddeeUpp

Nope, barely any of the projectiles in SS have the ap attribute because they still go through armour anyway. I think only pistols are ap.

**GiddeeUpp** · February 03, 2012, 12:35 PM

so because they are still AP without being classified as AP? or just due to the high attack of javellin's as projectiles?

**Judeman266** · February 03, 2012, 04:20 PM

High attack I think

**Ferdiad** · February 03, 2012, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by Judeman266

@GiddeeUpp

Nope, barely any of the projectiles in SS have the ap attribute because they still go through armour anyway. I think only pistols are ap.

Dont think any have AP actually.

**k/t** · February 03, 2012, 06:14 PM

The pistols of the Reiters and Early Reiters have AP. I asked PB why that is, but I don't think he ever answered. Those are the only projectiles in the game that have AP, though. Except for the stuff that ballista towers shoot.

**Son of Mars** · February 03, 2012, 06:21 PM

Moors overpowered? Umm history isn't fair and whats happening in Iberia in 6.4 is pretty accurate as far as what actually happened. Both sides gained and took ground, and the Christians also roflstomp the Moors much of time, much to my disappointment when I made it to Iberia as Sicily after defeating the Moors in N. Africa.