The Kingdoms of the Isles - The Second Preview

**pipedreamdan** · March 12, 2012, 09:18 PM

i've been watching this mod for the longest time and am very excited to hear this news. i'm a very impatient person but this one will be well worth the wait. good luck to you guys.

**slaneslau** · March 20, 2012, 05:22 PM

ok listen any chance of this being made this summer? i mean i hate waiting long time for mods!!! lets go

**The Bruce** · March 20, 2012, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by slaneslau

ok listen any chance of this being made this summer? i mean i hate waiting long time for mods!!! lets go

Which hemisphere?

**The Border Reiver** · March 27, 2012, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by The Bruce

Which hemisphere?

I agree. If it's the southern then that's why nothing is happening quickly

See the way you have to think about the development of this mod is to think about it in relation to deep time. We started it way back in the Archaen, and now we are in the Anthropocene, but each month that passes is like organic layers slowly changing from humus to peat and then to coal in the Permian.

As new things are added and removed, the proof as to if it actually exists (like global warming) is clouded in so much poor science, politics and agendas that to see proof of its existence is something akin to dark matter; scientists will tell you that the mathematics prove that it exists; however this mod is more like the absence of light in a (supposed) expanding universe.

Whatever way you look at it, its existence is there but not being worked on until the holidays at Easter again.

**The Bruce** · March 27, 2012, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by The Border Reiver

See the way you have to think about the development of this mod is to think about it in relation to deep time. We started it way back in the Archaen, and now we are in the Anthropocene, but each month that passes is like organic layers slowly changing from humus to peat and then to coal in the Permian.

As new things are added and removed, the proof as to if it actually exists (like global warming) is clouded in so much poor science, politics and agendas that to see proof of its existence is something akin to dark matter; scientists will tell you that the mathematics prove that it exists; however this mod is more like the absence of light in a (supposed) expanding universe.

Whatever way you look at it, its existence is there but not being worked on until the holidays at Easter again.

Probably your best post ever.

**baneofnewbs** · April 04, 2012, 01:41 PM

Not asking a "when will it be released" question but just curious how are the units coming?

**PrestigeX** · May 10, 2012, 12:06 AM

Good to know that this mod is still being worked on.

When it eventually comes out... I am totally going to recreate the battle scene from Highlander 1 -- even if there's no 'fraser' or 'McCleod' clan

**Cináed** · May 11, 2012, 04:00 AM

This mod looks absolutely incredible, I really hope there's a finished version to play at some point.

**Rafl** · August 27, 2012, 02:34 AM

Amazing!!! Really amazing!!! I really want to play that mod!!! Its great!!!
But I think you should think again something... This game, isnt about knights... The scottish warriors who fought for there freedom werent knights. William Wallace was just a villager... So you could contain the possibility of a villager who is in the to become something like a leader of the army and show it as a character [with a common name...] with its own unit.

**The Border Reiver** · August 28, 2012, 11:59 PM

Hey Rafl, you will get the chance to play this mod before Christmas, as the progress I'm making is stunning and very positive. Realistically the hold up was redesigning a new map from anew which is very time consuming.

But I think you should think again something... This game, isnt about knights... The scottish warriors who fought for there freedom werent knights. William Wallace was just a villager

Good point and I take your point about this, and the fact that many commoners fought for both sides throughout the centuries of conflict, and the value attributed to the fight and pluck of the scottish commoners should never be undervalued. But The Wallace was no commoner as Randall Wallace (writer of Braveheart would have you believe), his family were of lesser or minor nobility (depending on your preference), and as such owed feudal service to greater lords.

Now I understand the above is an oversimplifaction of feudalism, but I wanted to make the point that The Wallace was not a landless commoner with nothing but his life to lose, he and his family (and feudal lords) had far more to lose, and this is what makes his course of action far more stunning. The knights and lords that headed armies then were not commoners, nor were the Consuls and Praetors of the Roman armies. They all came from the upper levels of society (Consuls and Praetors may have been of the Plebeian or Equestrian Order, nevertheless they were in the upper tribes), just as officers in modern wars primarily came from educated and well to do families last century and probably still do today.

I don't undervalue the worth of the commoners, but the names you read about on the interent or in books discussing this are not common, they are the gentry, and that is exactly why their names are mentioned, becasue there were seen as important enough to write about.

**Rafl** · August 30, 2012, 09:05 AM

Ok, youre right, Wallace was a landowner, and the scottish armies werent leaded by commoners. But what surely was, is groups of commoners tha fought english tyranny but werent fully integrated in the scottish army. They also like the idea if the independ Scotland but didn want neither the english or scottish king [there were same type groups in other nations too...]. So, i think you should find a way to make these commoners exist. I have some ideas but first tell me if you agree. I dont know if you understand me but i hope so.

**The Border Reiver** · September 05, 2012, 03:25 AM

I totally understand you Rafl, and I understand exactly your point. What are your ideas?

**Rafl** · September 06, 2012, 07:36 AM

Ok, I have not even help with making a mod, so i dont know how these will be able to be made...

1) In every region, there could be some rates about which clan its people support. As one of the supported clans in the rates,will be an indepent clan that does not support any king or lord and doesnt want to obey anyone. When, in region appears a rate with some power with supporters of another clan, an army will be spawned in that region. If that army manages to take a region there will make an semi-indepent clan that will send an diplomat to its supporters and tell them that its ready to join them. Example: England conquers Endinburg. The scottish rate is very powerful. In the next turn an army appears with supporters of scotland. The army manages to take back endinburg so a diplomat is sent to scotland to tell them that they are going to join it. So endinburg is now scottish again. Moreover, every faction could be able to recruit a unit that is like priest, and will be able to make people support its faction.

2)Its region could be divined in little regions. Each one of them will give the big region money from the taxes and products. But they will be able to be controled of a clan that does not control the big region, so all these will be given to a region of the clan that clan. If a clan conquers one, it will be able to kill or drive out its residents. Its clan, will be also able to ask for volunteers of a region to carry em in another place.If that happens, the volunteers will become units in the army of women chidren and old men until they arrive in another region.

3)Now about the groups of commoners. I think that they could replace rebels. They could be, a playable faction. There clan will be the one that i spoke about it and doesnt want to obey any king or lord. In the start of the campaign, they will only have some soldiers in some regions. Some units in their army will be women old men and children. There aim will be to survive and try to make more people believe in their ideas and follow them.

I know they are too much and i think they are not doable. But i wanted to say them.
I also hope to understand the bad english.
Rafl

**The Border Reiver** · September 12, 2012, 05:11 AM

Rafl, Some good ideas here that have aleady been implemented, except part 2 and 3.

Part 1 of your ideas is already being implemented, and essentially already exists in a basic form coded by CA in the british isles campaign

Part 2, due to coding you can only achieve so much. As you know we can subdivide regions. But I have already created the ability for the Scottish Crown to recruit any highland or lowland or border factions units, and we can't recruit women and children and old men, nor do I think this has any place in the game.

Replacing the rebels with a faction of commoners is too difficult and ethnographically counterproductive, and as I said we can't recruit women and children and old men. I certainly don't like the idea of seeing children and women being killed on the battlefield, and I'm quite sure there are censorship laws in place. Plus what kind of balance could we expect, every battle would be over in a minute.

**Rafl** · September 13, 2012, 07:30 AM

When i told you about the women and the old men, i meant tha the player could be able to move some of his people if he takes control of an enemy settlement and kill or drive away its people because they dont like him. But if he does something like this, people he moves could be attacked so we have to make them exist in a battle.
Moreover, about the commoners, what do you mean ethnographically counterproductive? Could you explain it a little better?

**The Border Reiver** · September 15, 2012, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Rafl

When i told you about the women and the old men, i meant tha the player could be able to move some of his people if he takes control of an enemy settlement and kill or drive away its people because they dont like him. But if he does something like this, people he moves could be attacked so we have to make them exist in a battle.
Moreover, about the commoners, what do you mean ethnographically counterproductive? Could you explain it a little better?

Oh I understand now about the women and old men.

So you mean a scripted event that increases the players population and decreases the enemies population? In that case it's far easier to to have priest simply convert the population to your faction. As there is no distinction between males and females population this would not be possible.

what do you mean ethnographically counterproductive?

It made sense when I typed it, but here goes after new thinking. The peoples of Britain and Ireland were ethnographically and linguistically different and can't be represented as a single commoner faction without a lot of extra work. Plus, the commoners were under direct control of their landed gentry and were not able to move around the countryside with the same freedoms we have today.

therefore, the units that are displayed in battle are those taken from the "commoner pool" and elevated to the status of soldiers to simplify the feudal structure of the time. Plus there are many commoner units such as peasants, town militia, spear militia, peasant archers already.

I won't create a faction for commoners as they can't be represented accurately and made a challenge that can compete with other armed factions. Great idea though.

**vodkamykaz** · September 16, 2012, 09:01 AM

Where can I download this mod please ?

**The Border Reiver** · September 17, 2012, 08:30 PM

The old version of this mod Kingdom of the Scots is no longer available as the Bruce and I have gone separate ways for the time being, and the majority of the excellent 2D stuff was his. I'm redoing the whole mod myself at the moment and will be out just before Christmas certainly.