Help with Khwarezmian dynasty?

[zburanuki]

yeah you're right man!

[trenchwirez]

well yes, the ideal is to keep urgench,khiva and taking the city in the south (i don't remember the name,it's the next city on the south after khiva).also i never had followed that kind of startegy but it hepled me a lot.also you accomplished one of your missions (eliminate the seljuks o f iraq) and you have plenty of time to build your economy and upgrade your cities.in khorasan you have to be quick in order to face the mongols and also be quicker from the ghorids (because the take all the nearby rebel settlements and don't choose to continue their war with ghaznavids)in iranian regions you can take your time as the abbassids prefer more the westward expansion.when you are ready to face the mongols go straight to urgench and claim back the khorasan regions.a good strategy (it worked for me) is carrying with ships 5-7 full stack units and disembark them around khiva and urgench and simultaneously sending from gorgan and the around regions some crap armies of 1-2 units and besiege heavily defended mongol cities.use spies to find where the main horde is and send there the ''suicide army''.they will focus on that and leave on your mercy the northern cities.all you want from the mongols is reclaim khwarezm and khorasan regions and not exterminate them.leave that task to the ghorids or the pechennegs.

So, I have to say that I really liked your post and found it both interesting and useful. However it took me an ungodly amount of time to read it using my cursor like a flashlight because you are terrible at punctuation and using the RETURN key. If you care about the sanity of the people who are going to see your posts, please take some time to organize your thoughts into coherent paragraphs.

[Farwest]

In my third campaing, Khwarezmians still pressed largely by Ghorids and Seljuks of Iraq. Khwarezmians also couldn't took Merv and Nishapur, but they are locked at urgench and khiva.

In history, Khwarezmians should be the first or second powerful empire in that era (before the mongols) due to their mass invades and expansions on Seljuk, Persia, Azerbaijan areas. But in the game, they are lack of this power I think.

[Harith]

In my third campaing, Khwarezmians still pressed largely by Ghorids and Seljuks of Iraq. Khwarezmians also couldn't took Merv and Nishapur, but they are locked at urgench and khiva.

In history, Khwarezmians should be the first or second powerful empire in that era (before the mongols) due to their mass invades and expansions on Seljuk, Persia, Azerbaijan areas. But in the game, they are lack of this power I think.

its really ur luck... sometimes by gettin an alliance or a trade agreement... u kind of cripple other factions in a way I am still tryin to figure out.

Anyway, for me the khwarezmians do well until the Ghurids kick the mongols out and corner them into two regions because they declared war on them. The reason why they are getting beaten is because of the MTW limitation of regions. u have few regions above persia compared to Mesopotamia, egypt, anatolia or the levant. Sooo, if u play the khwarezms... u should do fine... but the AI wont eventually

[Farwest]

I don't know is it my luck or something, but Ghurids are too powerful in the area and always had the upper hand on Khwarezmians. But Khwarezmshahs should be more powerful than his neighbours, by the history. Than the Khwarezmshahs would collapse when the Mongols came.
I think Merv also could be Kharezmshah city from the start. Merv had changed hands between the Khwarazmians of Khiva (the other is Sultan-Shah of Nishapur), the Oghuz, and the Ghurids between the years of 1153 and 1221 (the Mongol invasion)

Merv was a very important city in that era, but the city's capture hasn't told by books about Khwarezm, but the capture of Nishapur(1187) and some other important cities has given. Also Merv's other change of hands has only given for the year of 1221, so I think the Merv already was a Khwarezmian city in the period.

Besides, Khwarezm Tekesh's son Alaaddin Muhammed wiped out the Ghurids in the year of 1210 and Kara-Khanids in 1212, in addition of a large expansion on the lands of Ghurids and Kara-Khanids; Herat, Belh, Cuzcan, Toharistan, Sistan, Sicistan, Semerkand, Taberistan and Maveraünnehir region.

So apart from a player's ability to form a powerful empire; the Khwarezmshahs should already be a too powerful state (also for the AI). A player's ability could change the fate of Ghurids, Seljuks or other factions, but not Khwarezms' powerful status. They should be powerful from the start, not too balanced with Ghurids and the other in the region.

To the attention of the mod authorities...

[Harith]

I don't know is it my luck or something, but Ghurids are too powerful in the area and always had the upper hand on Khwarezmians. But Khwarezmshahs should be more powerful than his neighbours, by the history. Than the Khwarezmshahs would collapse when the Mongols came.
I think Merv also could be Kharezmshah city from the start. Merv had changed hands between the Khwarazmians of Khiva (the other is Sultan-Shah of Nishapur), the Oghuz, and the Ghurids between the years of 1153 and 1221 (the Mongol invasion)

Merv was a very important city in that era, but the city's capture hasn't told by books about Khwarezm, but the capture of Nishapur(1187) and some other important cities has given. Also Merv's other change of hands has only given for the year of 1221, so I think the Merv already was a Khwarezmian city in the period.

Besides, Khwarezm Tekesh's son Alaaddin Muhammed wiped out the Ghurids in the year of 1210 and Kara-Khanids in 1212, in addition of a large expansion on the lands of Ghurids and Kara-Khanids; Herat, Belh, Cuzcan, Toharistan, Sistan, Sicistan, Semerkand, Taberistan and Maveraünnehir region.

So apart from a player's ability to form a powerful empire; the Khwarezmshahs should already be a too powerful state (also for the AI). A player's ability could change the fate of Ghurids, Seljuks or other factions, but not Khwarezms' powerful status. They should be powerful from the start, not too balanced with Ghurids and the other in the region.

To the attention of the mod authorities...

look. We cant do anything about it if the AI cant handle them well. The reason why they are not as powerful is because there few regions to control. Meaning less income even though it is a large junk of land. The roster is fine. Everything is fine. Its a game... not everything has to be exactly historically perfect. Its nice to let ur imagination to go wild from time to time.

If ur still not happy, I think u might be able to tweak them urself so that they get more income... or have more starting money or armies.

[Farwest]

Harith, I had only given a suggestion, with giving a huge city (Merv with its huge tax and trade income also) could perhaps solve the problem.

On the other hand, they get large sums of money because of an AI script, from time to time. But I investigated my game after your message and Khwarezmians seem to be in debt also. So, tweaking their income or starting money perhaps could do the trick I think...

[Ansar Warrior]

as for the khwarezmians,iran is their land in a few words.in my campaign i didn't progress enough so the mongols easily vanished me.in my second campaign i destroy all my biuldings in all my cities and sack 2-3 rebel cities on my way to iran.again i destroyed all my buildings and then went straight to hamadan and destroyed the great seljuks as they didn't expand for some reason.then i took ray and one other city i think and disband my mercenaries.there you don't have possible enemies (the abbasids are willing to ally with you and the georgians,at least at the beginning, are focused on the nearby rebel cities and the seljuks)

That's actually quite a good idea, quickly pack up and combine all your forces then march and take over another land before they have time to build .... nice, very Mongol like lol.

Yeah I wanted to do the same thing and bring the Khwarezmians back to Persia but I ended up staying put and trying to do it the hard way, I'll give your way a try.

[zburanuki]

thanks i also wanted to go the hard way but i couldn't cope with the mongol hordes.anyway,before you start destroying everything make sure you have some alliances (kypchaks,abbasids,ghorids,oman) as after that strategy your reputation will go very very down.

p.s. yes you're right about the ''mongol way''

[Harith]

thanks i also wanted to go the hard way but i couldn't cope with the mongol hordes.anyway,before you start destroying everything make sure you have some alliances (kypchaks,abbasids,ghorids,oman) as after that strategy your reputation will go very very down.

p.s. yes you're right about the ''mongol way''

how about u siege castles and cities with 1 infantry and lets say 3 cavalry?? I do that all the time and I win. the AI will sally out and u just keep charging them repeatedly. I rotate my cavalry, so when 1 calvary unit is chargin, the other is retreatin and the other is distractin and if I have a fourth... its prolly either idle or engaging the BG

[zburanuki]

very good and simple strategy,but i have 2 ''problems'':

1) the majority of the rebel settlements (khorasan and persian regions in our case) have some units inside the city or castle and at least one half stack army next to the settlement,so i can't figure out how this can work.

2) the defenders sometimes (not always) do sally forth,but first you have to destroy their walls with 2 catapults.how can you march quickly with catapults and how can you recruit them?

[Harith]

very good and simple strategy,but i have 2 ''problems'':

1) the majority of the rebel settlements (khorasan and persian regions in our case) have some units inside the city or castle and at least one half stack army next to the settlement,so i can't figure out how this can work.

2) the defenders sometimes (not always) do sally forth,but first you have to destroy their walls with 2 catapults.how can you march quickly with catapults and how can you recruit them?

sallying forth is when the enemy comes out of the castle to fight u. So u dont need any catapults. Otherwise, this is a bug.

As for the half stack, usually 3/4 are infantry... so it shouldnt be a big problem. If u still dont know how to manage it, then I think maybe if u get 2 infantry and 2 heavy cavalry. This way, ur infantry is stationed and used to drag enemy volley arrows and other infantry while u eliminate their cavalry and then move on to eliminate the enemy infantry by rear charges.

If the heavy cavalry charges ur infantry, then u do the same and charge the enemy infantry to keep the battle balanced. Make sure to charge them and rout them... dont bother to kill every single unit. As for horse archers, just dont mother and keep it to the last minute, at some point they will charge u.

always take advantage of any open charge on the BG no matter how expensive because ur outnumbered and ur goal is to rout the enemy army THEN destroy it

[zburanuki]

yeah ok,now i understand what you say.you just lay siege and next turn the rebels attack because they outnumber you.but still my problems are the reinforcements and the horse archers,at least for me it's difficult to win a battle with just 4 units and the AI have a full stack army.anyway i like your strategy