What do you think about the Saga of the Samurai Series?

[Heiro de Bodemloze]

So the title pretty much explains it, what do you think about the Saga of the Samurai Series by Terje Solum?

[clibinarium]

I've only got one of them so far, the 1548-59, volume 4 (?), and I was quite impressed by it. The most interesting thing to me was the discussion on how small horses were in Japan at the time. Certainly altered my conception of samurai cavalry. I will be picking the others up when I can.

[Heiro de Bodemloze]

Thanks, will be looking more after them

[Durruti1936]

Is this the series on the Takeda clan? I've only seen part one covering the "early period" - 1130 to 1467. Can't say I was very impressed as it seemed to collect every samurai misconception
from the Edo period (and later) that was superimposed on earlier times. There's even a picture of a "samurai woman" wielding a naginata with some mention of this being the traditional weapon of "female warriors". Some reference to inaccurate modern depictions of the semi-mythical Tomoe Gozen there too. All rubbish unfortunately.

[clibinarium]

For anyone interested, No. 5 in the Series has just been released;

Shingen the Conqueror , The Kai Takeda 1559-68

http://www.sagaofthesamurai.no/page1...t=5&category=1

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Not too interested in the Takeda clan to be truthful, in fact I somewhat dislike Shingen for being increasingly tyrannical towards the populaces of other provinces. He also did everything "necessary" to win but one must ask whether what he did was truly "necessary" or whether he even needed to kill his son and banish his father. I find him to self justifying (which in itself isn't bad at all) but the fact that Shingen was so hypocritical is definitely what bothers me the most. The other thing that bothers me the most about Shingen is his inability to decisively win at Kawanakajima and Mikatagahara or why he couldn't take Odawara. To be truthful as well, I find Shingen the only character in the Takeda clan to be interesting as a person but also who has any worth as a warrior and commander, especially since we all know how his primogenitors (Katsuyori) ended up.

I haven't read this series but I would like to read Shingen the Conqueror and Shingen in Command.
I'm just wondering if there are any books on the Oda, although most books on Japan seem sort of incomplete, as if they leave out large and relevant pieces of information.

[Basileos Leandros I]

Shingen destroyed Ieyasu at Mikagatahara and Kawanakajima was out of his grasp, it wasn't inability, it was an equal battle between two great commanders.

And I kind of disagree with the tyrannical part, Shingen actually helped the populace of his provinces, he looked after his own "garden" to put it like that.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

Shingen was very good towards Kai, but was not great towards conquered provinces or the provinces of his enemies.

I definitely put into question his lack of grasp at Kawanakajima or the amount of destruction that he gave at Mikatagahara, on a strategic level both battles were pointless for the Takeda. The end result of both battles ended up as bonuses for the enemy clans.

[Basileos Leandros I]

Kawanakajima was not really a bonus to Kenshin, he got nothing out of it except a lot of dead soldiers and retainers. Mikatagahara proved a point that at the moment of the battle, Shingen was the most powerful warlord in the East and the only one to challenge Nobunaga.

Natural forces came into being that rendered Mikatagahara useless. It wasn't Shingen's fault.

[Lord Oda Nobunaga]

All Kawanakajima proved was that the Takeda could be brought to a standstill and that the Takeda could not defeat an enemy in open battle that are only about half their size. The amount of retainers and troops lost were actually more on the Takeda and Kenshin accomplished his only strategic goal of denying the Takeda access into Echigo and blocking his only rout. Also I doubt that Kawanakajima showed that Shingen was the only one that could face Nobunaga considering how Nobunaga only owned Owari and barely even stepped into Saito.

While I admit that Mikatagahara was a complete tactical blunder for Ieyasu (what the hell was this guy thinking?), it was strategically favourable to Ieyasu as well. It probably isn't Shingen's fault that he failed strategically either, but the battle is given too much hype for a guy with 28,000 defeating at most 12,000 guys.

[Basileos Leandros I]

Any clan could have been brought by a standstill, nobody was undefeatable. Yoshimoto lost to Nobunaga, Kenshin beat Nobunaga, Shingen destroyed Ieyasu in pretty much the only battle they had, Shingen lost to the Murakami... Kenshin knew he couldn't win the battle with overwhelming odds, so he made use of the terrain. Yamamoto Kansuke made a little blunder as well, but the battle was equal in the end. It brought Shingen to a standstill, his generals were against invading Echigo anyhow.

Mikatagahara was favourable in the end, it wasn't favourable at that moment. If Shingen would have pressed onwards it would have been the rout of Ieyasu and everything would have been different. Oh, and the battle is hyped because of the Takeda cavalry charge.