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Thread: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

  1. #21
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    all agreed
    Also there could have regional diphtongues, but we will ignore it in a first time, regarding the half-north France.(Moiti nord de la France, dsl)

    "Milice" can be setted as well, the word have been imported very early.

    Like Milice du Guet, Milice Communale, Milice du Beffroi...etc, thats words appearing in old french at the Flemish Wars period. The mentioned names were used to call both the permanent sergeants of Arms, mercenaries, eventual guild's troops, bishop's troops, patrician's troops...etc
    in Paris, Orlans, Lyon and few othesr, we will have the best ones. I can tell you that Etienne Marcel can be made if needed.


    thanks to Kostic for the pic

    The 6 is Etienne Marcel, a sort of medieval Robespierre...the picture is excellent(Funken), and made under the ferule of french historians, but none all the captains of milicias would be armored like him(toscan-milanese armor stuff), he was a parisian patrician, very wealthy.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Sorry, first the 1250 sergeants of Saint-Louis. I think I will directly do them, and post the referencial pictures from my books.
    Last edited by VINC.XXIII; March 07, 2012 at 07:35 AM.


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  2. #22
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    OS if I understood correctly, in the period of the HYW, France made a semi-professional urban militia as the Milice de Paris?

  3. #23
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    yep exactly, but not "national recruitement", the unit is good anyway with red and blue for officers, maybe not for South-France(Toulouse, Marseille). We can stay in a generalist unit, but with a limited recruitement, to very wealthy cities/metropoles of Northern France, simply named in game : Milice Bourjeoise
    Those colors were tied to cities which were granted by the "Bonne Ville" status. Often big cities had such charts/autonomous rules, assorted with military musts, no cavalry. Only Voulgiers, Crossbowmen(lights or heaviers) were generally asked. Eventually(like Tournai with Philippe the Good) the city could pay 5000/10000 'tournois' to escape to its must. Or even to build a tower with a canon around the city, near a strategic point. Or more commonly to make a patchwork amator stuff with big handguns fixed to the crenels.
    Saying 1430 for the "true" cannon towers...

    After its to adapt to your conveniance in term of game-play
    Lone thing you have to remember mate, France was enough wealthy and inhabited in some points(urbanized valleys: Rhone, Seine) to build enormous armies of militiamen in few days. So only the top of these milicias will join the Ost, others were not needed.


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  4. #24
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE?!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France



    So many nice pics

  5. #25
    Kinjo's Avatar Taiko
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Whats your thoughts on squire units for France? I think it could work as a unique unit for them with how thick chevalerie was in the french culture. Battle was usually the proving ground were squires earned their dubbing or rite of passage to knighthood. You could make them a foot or a mounted unit or both and just make the officer a knight.

  6. #26
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Quote Originally Posted by Kinjo View Post
    Whats your thoughts on squire units for France? I think it could work as a unique unit for them with how thick chevalerie was in the french culture. Battle was usually the proving ground were squires earned their dubbing or rite of passage to knighthood. You could make them a foot or a mounted unit or both and just make the officer a knight.
    Yes, it has been considered, the squires will fall into the category of Men-at-Arms and you will have Mounted of Dismounted Sergents.

  7. #27
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Early Falchions, used by Miliciamen, as by Feudal sergeants/Knights.
    Fauchon "Maciejowski"
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    Villard de Honnecourt, french mason.(13th)
    Last edited by VINC.XXIII; May 13, 2012 at 11:20 AM.


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  8. #28
    Richard of Gloucester's Avatar Death Knight
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    The French king was openly mocked by his so- called " robber barons". It wasn't safe for him to walk around his own country.

  9. #29
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Auvergne knew even at 1600 new feudal movements with armored barons fighting with old weapons(like scottish clans), but the mod start at 1250 or so, I don't see what you find of weak with Louis ( the"'saint" one) or even with Philippe the Handsome. If never this king is going to be an emerging character.

    Richard 'Lion-Heart' wasn't welcome nor in some places of its own matriarchal fiefs. That don't means thats few brigands can really impact for politic purposes. Its well the volunty of Philippe Auguste thats ruined the english continental fiefs, not the trahison of few aquitan/poitevin vassals.


    "his own country"
    France was the most conquering power from 1223 to 1340.(Ecluse)
    Green are vassals


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  10. #30
    Richard of Gloucester's Avatar Death Knight
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    I know I have seen the map before... I am on about in The early period the French king had lots of rebellious vassals.

  11. #31
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    I fear thats nobody planed such mod, if you're thinking to Blois-Champagne's House, Vermandois and soon. Its need a focused map like La Guerre de Cent Ans - The Hundred Years War with an overhaul about units, etc...


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  12. #32
    Richard of Gloucester's Avatar Death Knight
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    ????

  13. #33
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Quote Originally Posted by Giacomo Colonna View Post
    I fear thats nobody planed such mod, if you're thinking to Blois-Champagne's House, Vermandois and soon. Its need a focused map like La Guerre de Cent Ans - The Hundred Years War with an overhaul about units, etc...
    Which may be actually considered, any maps about France in 1337?

  14. #34
    Richard of Gloucester's Avatar Death Knight
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    I was on about 1066- 1120

  15. #35
    VINC.XXIII's Avatar Dxe
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Some nice maps about the HYW's premises.

    http://www.guerre-de-cent-ans.com/cartes.php


    Illuminations featured there are not contemporary to 1350. And it cannot be used as reference, but can be used for very late Period(1450 and further).

    The one of 1337 AD:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Last edited by VINC.XXIII; May 20, 2012 at 05:13 AM.


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  16. #36
    162eRI's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Just a quick tip about the French colors.

    Since January 1188, after a meeting at Gisors about the crusades, it was agreed between the King of France and England that French troops were going to display a red cross on a white field and the English forces, a white cross on a red field.
    But by the end of the 14th century, the custom changed because of the 100 years war. English forces were displaying the red cross (to reinforce their claims to the throne of France) and so the French choosed the white cross (to remind the British of their vassality toward the kingdom of France). While the French were using the white cross on a red or blue field, the blue became afterward the "official color".
    Battle of Azincourt
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    And an other exemple of the red and white cross
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    About the French "fleur de lys", you have to be careful with the color. The game depicts them white, which is wrong because the white flowers mean the "Bourbon" dynasty. At the time of your mod, it was golden flowers.

    Peasant rebels (jacquerie) ambushing knights.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Armor of King Jean II. Note that most European kings were using by the end of the 14th century golden armors (either for parade or even on the battlefield).
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 






    Du Guesclin, famous Breton/French knight, known as the Eagle of Brittany or the Black Dog of Brocliande. (to find him in the photos, look for the black eagle)
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    Cheers


  17. #37
    162eRI's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    And I forget to add pictures of this 1893 book, Le Ornament Polychrome. It shows mostly French (Normand, Breton, Burgundy, French...) typical armors from the 9th to the 15th century. We all love this good old books . This drawings were made after the "Romantic Middle-Age movement" period in France (mid-late 19th century), movement lead by people such as Viollet le Duc (known to have rebuilt Middle-Age monuments such as Notre Dame or Carcassonne). So some of this drawings may be unacurate.

    9th to 13th century
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    13th to 15th century
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    And now for some drawings made by Viollet le Duc, from the book dictionnaire du mobilier franais.

    French/German horse "harnois" until the 15th century
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    Gambison d'homme d'armes, 14th century.
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    14th century French compagnie d'archers
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    French (?) Longbow man
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    French (?) crossbow man (have to check the book if it's showing French soldiers)
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    French Helmet, Bellows Visored Sallet
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    French Rogue, Thief
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  18. #38
    Riwallon's Avatar Sukauto
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    The notion of vassal was not exactly what it seems on the map, for example, French king considered Breton duke as vassal, but some duke didn't even come to do the vow of vassality (hope that word is English), and those who did the vow just said that they recognize the power of the French king in France and the the power of the Breton duke in Brittany and so they didn't have any duty to the French king (Even if the French asked it sometime, the dukes didn't respond). The dukes considered them self as "king in they territory" "duke by god will" , they did there own money (even in gold which was the privilege of the king), they did there own alliance, without the mediation of France (and often with the enemy of France). Even the pope gave Breton duke the privilege of king (they could choose all there Bishop; they were informed directly of the pope election...). At the end of this period, breton's wrote a history of Brittany which aim to prove that the Breton monarchy was previous to the French one and couldn't be vassal to it...
    If we watch the history map made by French, Brittany sometime appears to be control by France which was not the case at all (in fact they were enemy most part of time)
    Sorry for the English (by the way, my English is not good but i could help a little with French translation if needed)

  19. #39
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Could you tell me more about the French longbowmen? The Franc archers were raised in the 15th century if I remember unless they recruited mercs longbowmen which might be totally possible?

  20. #40
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of France

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    Could you tell me more about the French longbowmen? The Franc archers were raised in the 15th century if I remember unless they recruited mercs longbowmen which might be totally possible?
    French only started to recruit their own version of the English longbow men when they couldnt beat the "English system". According to the books I have read they werent as skilled as English longbow men but they were skilled enough, when combined with a professional army and artillery, to beat the English at their own game during the hundred years war. (well at the end of it) Dont have a definitive date as to when they started training their own troops.

    Not sure if French recruited merc longbow men, since england would have had the only professional ones around. Seems possible, but I havent heard of it.

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