Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

  1. #1
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    Everything related to army composition, native names, political situation, families, etc. but one priority is the army composition and how the recruitment system works under the Kaiser's grip, German names for units will be appreciated.

  2. #2
    SonofPeverel's Avatar GLORY TOTHE BROTHERHOOD
    Moderator Emeritus Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,185
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails HRE01.jpg  

    HOUSE OF HADER

  3. #3
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    County of Ravensberg
    Posts
    3,505
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    I'm German and had Latin at school for several years, so if you need any translations I should be able to help you . Just write it down here or sent me a PM, I might also be able to help you with historical background stuff as I'm studying history but I'm no expert for this time period in Germany.

  4. #4
    Casual Tactician's Avatar Princeps Prior
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Europe
    Posts
    1,282
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    Hi, folks! A great mod you are working on here.

    I've made a collection of links to hopefully interesting and usefull websites - at least some should be helpfull I reckon. Most of them I had bookmarked already, for some I did a little surfing/googling and from wikipedia I picked articles that offer basic and important information on the HRE - mainly for people/fans unfamiliar with the HRE, but maybe you (the devs) find them usefull as well (at least they should save you a few clicks or seconds when you want to look up something quickly).
    Obviously I didn't verfiy/read all the linked websites/infos. Some are old essays/articles I read a long time ago, some I just had a quick glance at and the wikipedia articles should be without grave errors I hope. Anyway... as you are the pros here, you'll be able to recognize the useless stuff (ie crap) that sliped my layman's eye.
    If you need help translating any German articles... I guess some one around here just offered their services. Not me, I talking of Mausolos of course. He also ought to have easy access to good books on the HRE military and the Middle High German language (for using native, historically correct terms) and so on.
    For the one or other odd German word you can simply use:

    The dict.cc English-German Dictionary - it also offers a handy firefox addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fir...c-translation/

    Enough talk, here's the stuff... as said with no limit or warranty:


    The Holy Roman Empire



    Basics:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    "Holy Roman Empire" wikipedia article; the German version is a very good featured article (also the German versions of the other English articles are naturally more detailed; and some Frensh versions are also more in-depth and sometimes featured as well):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

    HRE wikipedia portal (German):
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:...6misches_Reich

    HRE wikipedia commons:
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...ire?uselang=de

    HRE wikipedia wikisource (German):
    http://de.wikisource.org/wiki/Heilig...utscher_Nation

    Short history of Germany in the Middle Ages:
    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...62&gtrack=pthc

    Short history of the HRE in the Middle Ages:
    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...35&gtrack=pthc

    M2TW-mod: Das Heilige Römische Reich; surely the devs can share some of their knowledge and resources if asked politely. Perhaps already happend? Looks like a good mod, and I will most likely download the 0.9 version when it's released:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=498

    M2TW-mod: 1648 - Dreißig Jahre Krieg; same as above, Gigantus and the Infracta team seem to be friendly folks. They are also working on Germany/HRE mods/campaings closer the the WotW timeframe.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=315422

    Medieval Europe by H. W. C. Davis - Project Gutenberg; a most likely outdated history book, but it's a free e-book:
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/6369

    A History of Germany by Bayard Taylor - Project Gutenberg; another probably outdated history book, but yeah it's free:
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/36484

    Medieval Germany: Research and Resources, a pdf with extensive bibliography on a multitude of aspects of the HRE:
    www.ghi-dc.org/publications/ghipubs/rg/rg021/ghi-21.pdf


    States and Territories:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    "List of states of the HRE" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_Roman_Empire

    Section "Heiliges Römisches Reich/Territorien" in the HRE wikipedia portal (German):
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portal:...ch/Territorien


    Maps:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    HQ Map of the HRE during the Staufer-era:
    http://www.maproom.org/00/08/present.php?m=0026

    HQ Historic maps of Germany and HRE:
    http://www.maproom.org/search/index....s=Germany#form

    HQ Historic maps of Central Europe:
    http://www.maproom.org/search/index....al+Europe#form

    Interactive flash-maps of the HRE and European history:
    http://mappinghistory.uoregon.edu/english/EU/eu.html

    "Maps of the HRE" in wikipedia commons:
    http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca...y_Roman_Empire

    Maps of medieval Germany 500-1500 (German):
    http://www.deutschland-im-mittelalter.de/landkarten.php

    Some basic maps of Central Europe 980-1660:
    http://historymedren.about.com/libra...blathredex.htm


    Language and names of the "German" areas:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Language:

    "Middle High German" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_High_German

    Names:

    Extensive lists of Middle High German names in medieval HRE, incl. eg. Low German and Swiss names:
    http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/german.shtml

    List of Middle High German names (German); mostly translated into modern German though:
    http://www.tempora-nostra.de/ma_namen.shtml

    Vocabulary, Primers:

    A Middle High German Primer by Joseph Wright - Project Gutenberg; with a good glossary aka mini MHG-English-dictionary (scroll down):
    http://www.gutenberg.org/files/22636...-h/22636-h.htm

    Fine list of Middle High German words with English translation:
    http://lingweb.eva.mpg.de/cgi-bin/id...owse&lg_id=193

    A Middle High German Primer with Grammar, Notes, and Glossary by Joseph Wright; extensive and perhaps usefull but very inconvenient to use:
    http://lexicon.ff.cuni.cz/texts/mhg_wright_about.html

    Literature:

    Song and Legend from the Middle Ages by MacClintock and MacClintock - Project Gutenberg; with examples of medieval German literature and poetry, perhaps usefull for quotes or such(?); search for "IV. German Literature" in the html-version:
    http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/1893


    Military:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In General:

    Good essays on mercenaries and knights in the Middle Ages with focus on the HRE (German):
    http://www.kriegsreisende.de/mittelalter.htm

    Good essays on mercenaries and knights in the Renaissance with focus on the HRE (German):
    http://www.kriegsreisende.de/renaissance.htm

    Overview of the structure and esp. military in the medieval HRE:
    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/matthaywo...al_Germany.htm

    Possible units / unit names in WotW:

    Schildbürger (German); perhaps "schiltburgaere" in MHG, only my guess using the above primers; could perhaps by used for a town militia with sword and shield in the Late Middle Ages??:
    http://u01151612502.user.hosting-age...ildb%C3%BCrger

    Spießbürger (German); perhaps "spiezburgaere" in MHG, only my guess using the above primers; could perhaps by used for a town militia using pikes in the Late Middle Ages??:
    http://u01151612502.user.hosting-age...%9Fb%C3%BCrger

    Maybe some of lollsuck's Flanders units could also be used for the HRE in WotW, with some changes here and there. The urban culure in those days was fairly similar, I assume. Dr. Croccer might be able to find the MHG equivalents of the Middle Dutch names, after all MHG and MD are closely related. This is only me poking in the dark though, and I'm no historian.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...3#post10824933

    Maybe some assistance from other mods and their devs?; as the afore mentioned "Das Heilige Römische Reich" (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=498) and "1648 - Dreißig Jahre Krieg / Infracta team" (http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=315422). Only if necessary of course.

    Here's a list of MHG terms/words that might be usefull for naming "German" HRE units; I used the above vocabulary/primers for it:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    CODE]I'll attach a doc-file, as this does't look quite chaotic.

    Middle High German
    / English

    alt; virne old
    ar; adelar eagle
    arm arm

    barte battle-axe
    ber bear
    boge, wm. bow.
    - pfīl; strāle arrow
    bölzelīn, sn. little cross-bow, bolt or arrow.
    bruoder brother
    bühse gun, cannon
    būman (pl. būliute), sm. peasant, farmer, farm labourer.
    - būr(e); būman
    - ackerman; lantman
    burc castle
    burgære, sm. citizen, parishioner.

    dëgen, sm. warrior, vassal.
    dienest (dienst), sm. service, serviceableness; devotion.
    - ze dienste, out of devotion.
    dienstman, sm. servant, feoffee.
    diuwe (diw), sf. servant.
    dorf village
    dörperlīch, aj. peasant-like, rustic.

    edel(e), aj. and av. noble.
    edelinc, sm. son of a nobleman
    edelman; edelherre noble, nobleman
    ellen, sn. courage, valour; manliness.
    elter, aj. older.
    eltlīch, aj. elderly, old.
    ērbære, aj. honourable, decent, modest.
    ēre, wf. honour, renown.
    ēren, wv. honour.
    ērest, ērste, aj. first.

    gabylōt, gabilōt, sn. small javelin or dart.
    gebot, sn. command, order, commandment.
    gebūre, wm. peasant, citizen.
    geleite, sn. protection, retinue.
    - wm. attendant, companion.
    geselle, wm. companion.
    geselleschaft, sf. company.
    gesinde, sn. retinue.
    - wm. retainer.
    getriuwe, aj. faithful, good.
    gewǣfen arms
    gewalt, smf. power, might, command.
    gewalteclīch, aj. violent, mighty;
    - av. gewalteclīche.
    gewaltic, aj. powerful, mighty.
    grōȥ, aj. great, large.

    habech hawk
    hant hand
    heilec holy, sacred
    helm, sm. helm, helmet.
    hērre, hërre, hër, wm. master, lord.
    hōch high
    hōchgeborn, aj. of gentle birth; noble.
    hüetære; huotman guard, sentinel
    - wahtære

    jagen hunt
    jugent, sf. youth.
    junc (-ges), aj. young.
    junchērre, wm. young sir.
    junger, sm. disciple.

    kampflīch, aj. warlike.
    kempfe fighter
    knabe, wm. boy, youth.
    knappe, wm. a youth who has not yet become a knight.
    knëht, sm. boy, candidate for knighthood, attendant; warrior.
    kolbe; kiule club, mace.
    kristen, aj. and sb. christian.
    kriuz cross
    küen(e), aj. bold, warlike.
    küneclīch, aj. kingly, royal.
    künic (-ec), sm. king. ruler.
    kurz, aj. short, small.

    lanc, aj. long.
    - av. lange.
    lanze lance
    - gēr
    leie, wm. layman.
    lewe lion
    lützel, aj. and av. little, small.

    meier (meiger), sm. (free) farmer, tenant, bailiff
    meister, sm. master.
    münich, sm. monk.

    nider(e) low(er)

    orden, sm. order, rule; rank.
    - rīters orden, knightly order.
    Ōsterrīch, pn. Austria.

    pfaffe, wm. priest.

    rīch, rīche, aj. powerful, mighty, noble, great, fine, rich, free.
    rīche, sn. kingdom.
    rīten, sv. I ride.
    rīter, ritter, sm. rider; knight, the name of knight.
    rīterlīch, aj. knightly.
    rīterschaft, sf. knighthood, customs and manners of knights.
    ritterlīchen, av. in knightly manner.
    ros, sn. horse.
    - pfert; ors
    sant(e), aj. holy; holy one.
    schāchære, sm. robber.
    schar, sf. crowd, flock
    schif (-ffes), sn. ship.
    schilt (-des), sm. shield, protection.
    - schildes ambet, knight-service, chivalry.
    slinge; slenger sling
    soldenære, sm. hired soldier, mercenary, (soldier)
    sper; spiez spear
    stahel, sm. steel.
    stat town
    sturm, sm. fight, battle.
    swërt, sn. sword.

    tiutsch, tiusch, aj. German.

    urliuge; strīt; wīc; kriec war, battle

    volc, sn. folk, people.
    vrīe, wm. freeman.
    - vrīman
    frīen, frījen, frīgen, wv. free.
    vuoz foot
    vürste, fürste, wm. head of a principality, (prince).

    wāfen weapons.
    walt (-des), sm. wood, forest.
    wāpen, sn. weapon
    wār, aj. true, right, real.
    wīgant (-des), sm. warrior.
    wilde, aj. untamed, wild
    wolf, sm. wolf.

    zirke, wm. garland, circle, prince’s crown.
    zirkel, sm. prince’s crown.[/CODE]
    Images:

    Clothing and armour, weapons in the medieval HRE:
    http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/COSTUME3_INDEX.HTML


    Nobility and Titles: (mainly wikipedia articles, but they might save a few clicks and give folks unfamiliar with the HRE a good overview)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    General:

    "German nobility" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_...tles_and_ranks

    "Edelfreie" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edelfreie

    "Adelstitel" wikipedia article (German); titels of the HRE in various languages incl. Latin:
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adelstitel

    M2TW-mod: Das Heilige Römische Reich - HRE Titles; with the official latin, and not the common MHG, versions of titles:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=329448

    Nobiliy in descending order:

    "Holy Roman Emperor" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Emperor

    "Frederick II, Holy Roman Emperor" wikipedia article; the kaiser at the start of WotW:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederi..._Roman_Emperor

    "House of Hohenstaufen" wikipedia article; the house of Frederick II.:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Hohenstaufen

    "King of the Romans" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_of_the_Romans

    --> Heirs designate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Rom...eirs_designate

    "Prince-elector" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-elector

    --> Archchancellor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archchancellor
    --> High offices: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince-...r#High_offices


    "Herzog (title)" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_%28title%29

    "Fürst" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BCrst

    "Graf" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graf

    --> an incomplete list of comes/counts of the HRE (German): http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kategorie:Graf_%28HRR%29

    "Freiherr" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiherr

    "Ministerialis" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministerialis

    --> Ministeriales and Ritter: http://www.unc.edu/~murphy/rabenstein/ministeriales.html

    "Ritter" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritter

    "Edler" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edler

    Extensive list of HRE families:

    "Liste deutscher Adelsgeschlechter A–M" wikipedia article (German):
    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_d...hlechter_A_-_M


    Imperial Affairs: (again mainly wikipedia articles, but they might save a few clicks and give folks unfamiliar with the HRE a good overview)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Miscellaneous HRE aspects:

    "Imperial Diet (Holy Roman Empire)" wikipedia article:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichst...oman_Empire%29

    "Imperial State" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_State

    "Imperial election" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_election

    "Coronation of the Holy Roman Emperor" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronat..._Roman_Emperor

    "Imperial Regalia" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imperial_Regalia

    Short history of feudalism:
    http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/...historyid=ac35

    "Confoederatio cum principibus ecclesiasticis" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confoed...ecclesiasticis

    "Statutum in favorem principum" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statutu...orem_principum

    "Feud" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feud

    --> "Weregild" wikipedia article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weregild

    "Robber baron" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robber_baron

    "Hanseactic League" wikipedia article:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanse





    Middle Ages in General


    Mixed:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Extensive lists of medieval names:
    http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/

    The History of Costume, images of medieval clothing, armour and weapons:
    http://www.siue.edu/COSTUMES/TEXT_INDEX.HTML

    General information on the Middle Ages, from a mainly Anglo-Norman perspective:
    http://www.middle-ages.org.uk/

    International Heraldry & Heralds:
    http://www.internationalheraldry.com/


    Military & War:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Medieval Warfare, with good link section:
    http://www.medievalwarfare.info/

    --> Medieval Weapons: http://www.medievalwarfare.info/weapons.htm
    --> and other sub-sections


    Military Life in the Middle Ages, from a mainly Anglo-Norman perspective; with sober view on the English longbowmen:
    http://www.lahacal.org/armspicture.html

    De Re Militari: The Society for Medieval Military History:
    http://www.deremilitari.org/

    Armies of the Middle Ages, volume 1 by Ian Heath; era 1300-1487:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/29854877/A...-Middle-Ages-1

    Medieval Warfare (2):
    http://www.hyw.com/books/history/medi0000.htm

    Castles and Manor Houses around the World:
    http://www.castlesandmanorhouses.com/

    Cathar Castles:
    http://www.catharcastles.info/



    Best Regards, Casual Tactician!
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Quebec, Canada
    Posts
    3,338
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    @Casual Tactician: Many thanks for those brilliant information, a rep is well deserved!This set will be into our research data base and once we will get into the HRE, we will be ready for it, again thank you.

    @Mausolos of Caria: Thank you for your help, when we will design the unit roster of the HRE and the German mercenaries, we will call you, sounds good?

  6. #6
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    County of Ravensberg
    Posts
    3,505
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post

    @Mausolos of Caria: Thank you for your help, when we will design the unit roster of the HRE and the German mercenaries, we will call you, sounds good?
    Yep I'll be ready Nice help by Casual Tactician, too, and I've to agree about his dictionary, another good one is leo.org (for example: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende〈=de&searchLoc=-1&cmpType=relaxed&sectHdr=on&spellToler=&search=medieval) although it's in German but as you just need to type in the word it should be no big problem. But CT's list seems to be quite excessive (in a positive sense) already as well

  7. #7
    Mausolos of Caria's Avatar Equites
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    County of Ravensberg
    Posts
    3,505
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    I just came across a nice map of the HRR (14th century) and thought I might as well post it here:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    A more basically map showing the most important factions inside the Empire in 1039 (a bit early maybe, but it's well-arranged):

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    It says Microsoft coypright so I only put the link but not the pic here.


    And here's a map showing the possessions of the most influential imperial families from 1273 to 1378, Habsburg, Luxemburg and Wittelsbach:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Hopefully it will be useful for you
    Last edited by Mausolos of Caria; May 23, 2012 at 05:26 PM.


    19 May 2012
    Hibernian 1-5 Heart of Midlothian

    ''Of all the small nations of this earth, perhaps only the ancient Greeks surpass the Scots in their contribution to mankind.''

  8. #8
    Horatio Hornblower's Avatar Aquilifer
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Milano, Northern Italy
    Posts
    391
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    German Army 12th - 14th century



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cattura.PNG   Cattura2.PNG   Cattura3.PNG   Cattura4.PNG   Cattura5.PNG  

    Cattura6.PNG   Cattura7.PNG  
    Last edited by Horatio Hornblower; September 30, 2012 at 05:34 AM.

  9. #9
    Horatio Hornblower's Avatar Aquilifer
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Milano, Northern Italy
    Posts
    391
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    German Army 14th - 16th century

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Cattura8.PNG   Cattura9.PNG   Cattura10.PNG   Cattura11.PNG   Cattura12.PNG  

    Cattura13.PNG   Cattura14.PNG   Cattura15.PNG  

  10. #10
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE?!
    Content Staff Citizen

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Heerlen, Limburg
    Posts
    9,894
    Tournaments Joined
    0
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: [Faction Research] The Holy Roman Empire

    It's a good thing it's an empire and not some 300 small states. That would be a pain to research



    It will give a pretty interesting unit roster though, with loads of AOR units I hope. I love AOR units, they're so special.

  11. #11

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •