Official PvP General Discussion Thread, Part I

[wolfbane751]

@Wolfbane
Some sneaky editing in there I see

hm? i dont see what you mean by this

[irelandeb]

Few points:

1. I represent 1/12th of the Brotherhood. Not 12/12ths. I, like everyone, am entitled to my own opinion, and I expressed that opinion.

2. From whom did you hear we were very likely to aid the Northmen? This interests me greatly. Bet it wasn't a Brotherhood member, but you still believed it.

3. The difference between the Northmen and you is thus:

-The Northmen attack factions, take what they want and leave. End of story. They rarely bother with a Casus Belli because this is ing Minecraft, not EU3.

-The Dwarves attack a faction, with reasonable cause, take what they want and leave. End of story. Oh no wait, no it isn't. They then build a victory monument right out-ing-side someone elses base, put up an argument about taking it down, and then their members wander around Northern lands refusing to leave and then get fairly killed for refusal. Then, to top it all off, the Dwarves attack said faction all over again, based on the Northmen killing that one member who pushed it too far. What does this tell us about the Dwarves?

To start with it tells us they have no regard for objectivity. Sama's actions, which the Dwarves would punish if an outsider did that to them on their own lands, were wholly swept under the rug and not even examined.

To follow on it shows us they have no sense of sportsmanship. Kicking a man while he's down is contemptible, and that's exactly what you did.

Finally it shows us their "justice" is whatever the hell they decide it should be on the spot. That wasn't justice, that was blind vengeance without even holding your own to account for their own outrageous behaviour.

* * *

So no, don't give me any of your crap. You were at fault, you got killed for it, and your faction acted with blatant disregard for justice, sportsmanship or even objective analysis of the situation.

That is why every faction on the server, from the Order to the Brotherhood, called you guys out on it. You ed up, and you showed us all you're absolutely no better than the "bullies" you claim to have pacified.

Don't be so hostile. Like you said, this is minecraft.

[Lord Romanus III]

3. The difference between the Northmen and you is thus:

-The Northmen attack factions, take what they want and leave. End of story. They rarely bother with a Casus Belli because this is ing Minecraft, not EU3.

Except for the fact that they do it for no reason, other than the fact that no one would stop them. That is the main difference.

-The Dwarves attack a faction, with reasonable cause, take what they want and leave. End of story. Oh no wait, no it isn't. They then build a victory monument right out-ing-side someone elses base, put up an argument about taking it down, and then their members wander around Northern lands refusing to leave and then get fairly killed for refusal. Then, to top it all off, the Dwarves attack said faction all over again, based on the Northmen killing that one member who pushed it too far. What does this tell us about the Dwarves?

The Norfs could've asked about Sama, rather than outright killing him. Ignoring him was an option. A Dwarf, no matter where he is, will be defended by our faction if we choose to act on it. On top of that, being told that we were carried by the Order doesn't sit well with us. The Norfs got a good bloody nose and were shown that we can do the same blitzkrieg attacks that they do to others. That is your difference.

To start with it tells us they have no regard for objectivity. Sama's actions, which the Dwarves would punish if an outsider did that to them on their own lands, were wholly swept under the rug and not even examined.

To follow on it shows us they have no sense of sportsmanship. Kicking a man while he's down is contemptible, and that's exactly what you did.

Finally it shows us their "justice" is whatever the hell they decide it should be on the spot. That wasn't justice, that was blind vengeance without even holding your own to account for their own outrageous behaviour.

The voting process happened over night, not just instantly. Sama's actions were examined and many did not believe what he might have done, outside of myself. It was simply not his normal way of doing things. You're an outsider and have the knowledge of one; don't act omnipotent. That and kicking the Norfs was perfectly fine. They have stated that they can beat us without allies, without gear, and with their magical stockpile of gear. We showed them that they can't. It was perfectly fair or at least as fair as the Norfs were to the other nations they had picked on. Also, we don't need a CB, as you said. We can go willy-nilly on them all we like.

* * *

So no, don't give me any of your crap. You were at fault, you got killed for it, and your faction acted with blatant disregard for justice, sportsmanship or even objective analysis of the situation.

That is why every faction on the server, from the Order to the Brotherhood, called you guys out on it. You ed up, and you showed us all you're absolutely no better than the "bullies" you claim to have pacified.

Calm down, we don't want you to yell angrily on the forums whilst hiding in your Citadel! The Brotherhood is adorable at times, acting as if they are important. Glory to King Katsumoto!

[Poach]

Yes, Scottish got out in me with a few too many swears. I removed most of them.

[King Sama]

Few points:

1. I represent 1/12th of the Brotherhood. Not 12/12ths. I, like everyone, am entitled to my own opinion, and I expressed that opinion.

2. From whom did you hear we were very likely to aid the Northmen? This interests me greatly. Bet it wasn't a Brotherhood member, but you still believed it.

3. The difference between the Northmen and you is thus:

-The Northmen attack factions, take what they want and leave. End of story. They rarely bother with a Casus Belli because this is ing Minecraft, not EU3.

-The Dwarves attack a faction, with reasonable cause, take what they want and leave. End of story. Oh no wait, no it isn't. They then build a victory monument right out-ing-side someone elses base, put up an argument about taking it down, and then their members wander around Northern lands refusing to leave and then get fairly killed for refusal. Then, to top it all off, the Dwarves attack said faction all over again, based on the Northmen killing that one member who pushed it too far. What does this tell us about the Dwarves?

To start with it tells us they have no regard for objectivity. Sama's actions, which the Dwarves would punish if an outsider did that to them on their own lands, were wholly swept under the rug and not even examined.

To follow on it shows us they have no sense of sportsmanship. Kicking a man while he's down is contemptible, and that's exactly what you did.

Finally it shows us their "justice" is whatever the hell they decide it should be on the spot. That wasn't justice, that was blind vengeance without even holding your own to account for their own outrageous behaviour.

* * *

So no, don't give me any of your crap. You were at fault, you got killed for it, and your faction acted with blatant disregard for justice, sportsmanship or even objective analysis of the situation.

That is why every faction on the server, from the Order to the Brotherhood, called you guys out on it. You ed up, and you showed us all you're absolutely no better than the "bullies" you claim to have pacified.

1. Yes... see my reply to Kats.
2. Two secondary sources, one I trust entirely, one I don't. The decision was made while I was absent, however.
3. How absolutely ridiculous. You criticize us for having a poor CB and being bullies, yet commend the Northmen for not bothering with this, in the exact same sub-point. This is the very height of your bias, Poach. Choose a side - either we need to be justfied in our actions, or we do not. If we do, examine equally those of the Northmen, if we don't, then stop complaining about it.

Yes, we would probably have killed Greens, but not if we had just lost a war against his factions, and not if we knew why he was there. Yes, we kicked a faction while they were down... but if you're down its not a good idea to spit at the guy standing above you. And justice? Again, ridiculous if you cannot hold others to the same standards.

So tell me, would you prefer we attack with complete disregard for justice?

Furthermore, if a Brother got killed for walking in the wrong direction (and yes, that is why I was killed according to the northmen), would you remain silent?

[Poach]

Your secondary sources seem to be gullible, then.

No, you see Sama, there's a difference between being open and honest about your lack of a CB, and attempting to justify a completely outrageous one to claim you're fighting the good fight. The Northmen fought because they like to fight, and they're honest about that, and when they're done fighting they don't come back a few days later to stomp their old enemies back down again.

The Dwarves show a blatant lack of even basic respect for their old foes, trespass, build, and refuse to leave, and then jump it all way up out of proportion in an attempt to claim they're not being utterly unreasonable in kicking their old foes before they can even get back up. You've got this completely indefensible reason for going to war.

I'd have more respect for you guys if you just came clean and admitted your actions were extremely heavyhanded and that you guys were probably in the wrong in the first place, but to hell with it we wanted to slap them about some more.

It's the lies I dislike Sama, the lies and mental acrobatics to claim you guys are totally fighting another justified and fair fight against the Northmen.

[apple]

Jesus Christ. A few of you need to take a chillpill.

Edit: Poach you are wrong on one point. We don't go to war because we want to. We do it because Green is bored.

[irelandeb]

So how do I find the bases of other factions? Is there a map somewhere?

[Gone 2 the Celts]

Yo Apple, I'll pay you to help remodel the WickedMens base.

[Lord Romanus III]

Your secondary sources seem to be gullible, then.

No, you see Sama, there's a difference between being open and honest about your lack of a CB, and attempting to justify a completely outrageous one to claim you're fighting the good fight. The Northmen fought because they like to fight, and they're honest about that, and when they're done fighting they don't come back a few days later to stomp their old enemies back down again.

The Dwarves show a blatant lack of even basic respect for their old foes, trespass, build, and refuse to leave, and then jump it all way up out of proportion in an attempt to claim they're not being utterly unreasonable in kicking their old foes before they can even get back up. You've got this completely indefensible reason for going to war.

I'd have more respect for you guys if you just came clean and admitted your actions were extremely heavyhanded and that you guys were probably in the wrong in the first place, but to hell with it we wanted to slap them about some more.

It's the lies I dislike Sama, the lies and mental acrobatics to claim you guys are totally fighting another justified and fair fight against the Northmen.

The Norfs have tons of resources and can fight a war for months, if needed. They said this themselves. They had almost full manpower when we attacked. What is unfair about this? It was very fair, according to them.

[Danny_K_1]

Yes, Scottish got out in me with a few too many swears. I removed most of them.

[King Sama]

Your secondary sources seem to be gullible, then.

No, you see Sama, there's a difference between being open and honest about your lack of a CB, and attempting to justify a completely outrageous one to claim you're fighting the good fight. The Northmen fought because they like to fight, and they're honest about that, and when they're done fighting they don't come back a few days later to stomp their old enemies back down again.

The Dwarves show a blatant lack of even basic respect for their old foes, trespass, build, and refuse to leave, and then jump it all way up out of proportion in an attempt to claim they're not being utterly unreasonable in kicking their old foes before they can even get back up. You've got this completely indefensible reason for going to war.

I'd have more respect for you guys if you just came clean and admitted your actions were extremely heavyhanded and that you guys were probably in the wrong in the first place, but to hell with it we wanted to slap them about some more.

It's the lies I dislike Sama, the lies and mental acrobatics to claim you guys are totally fighting another justified and fair fight against the Northmen.

Not a few days later. One day later. When I logged in. Where Greens knew I had been, and why. And then, we fight them once, and offer a peace deal, even lowering it to fit with their request. They could have paid this morning easily, but they chose instead to fight us. Stomped indeed. They weren't even down when the last war ended.

Do you realise the flaw in your logic though? Why do you think Josst and I wanted to make a statue? We were upset with the peace decision, made at least without my knowledge, and wished to compensate. To "slap them around some more", something which our faction later, and very graciously to the MotN, rejected. That, which you claim as "bullying" and "lacking respect", is in fact the very disregard for justice you feel is completely fine with the Northerners, as long as it is bluntly acknowledged. We could have had similar reasons for war, and I was pushing for a renewal of conflict anyways... that would have made you happier than had we not acted until after the Northmen proceeded to kill a Dwarf? Have you considered that they might have apologized or offered to return my lost items, and the entire conflict would have been avoided? How is that for respect, when it became clear I went in the wrong direction accidently.

I can assure you though, I fully believe we are in the right and I tend to be an honest person whether you believe it or not - after pages of argument there's not much more to say on it. Part of mature life is learning that others will have different perspectives, and if you believe that a nation shouldn't retaliate after such actions, fair enough. But we don't need legitimate grounds to attack - nor do the Northmen it seems - we choose to do so in our benevolence. Hell, if no one believed our grounds were legitimate they're next to useless aren't they? You attack our reasons, but for what? If you don't like them, feel free to ignore and pretend we're acting like the Northmen. But to suggest that if our actions are not entirely up to your personal views of justice, we should disregard it entirely, is as dangerous as it is fallacious, if applied on a greater level.

I think I've had about enough with this matter, and I've certainly written enough. As the Northmen often say, if it weren't for them this server would be very uneventful. Probably true, but whenever we declare war ourselves (and it was the same for the goblin war), the criticism never ceases. Hopefully a day will come when we might act in ways befitting our soverign position, without an immediate reactionary response. The cold war has apparently not ended, and will not, as long as the primary purpose of the Brotherhood is to constrain the Dwarven Empire.

[abbews]

Yeah about slapping us some more, tell me how that went when you attacked our four warriors with your seven?

Hail the glorious dwarven victory!

[Lord Romanus III]

Yeah about slapping us some more, tell me how that went when you attacked our four warriors with your seven?

Hail the glorious dwarven victory!

Yeah, the Norfs do hide well. What happened to us being just arrow fodder?

[Dewy]

You guys are missing the most important thing. Prussia is superior to everyone else.

[abbews]

Why would we give up the well fortified position? That's just idiotic, especially when the enemy almost outnumbered us 2 to 1. Though seeing as the Dwarves went swimming up a lava flow and committed suicide by jumping of a cliff, many lulz were had.

[Pat89]

Yeah, the Norfs do hide well. What happened to us being just arrow fodder?

Defending is not hiding. We were standing on the walls of our keep, while you guys were hiding behind the inn (or longhouse if ap gets it his way ). You were afraid to go for an all out assault, so you were hiding, not MotN. Also, MotN members had been online for most of the day yesterday. No dwarf except Mumh was spotted online. Then suddenly (as expected) all dwarves logged on at once to start a siege which you didn't even dare to finish. About the term arrow fodder, you did absorb many hits from our bows and TNT...

Last thing at the Dwarves, you're lucky Green has exams and simply doesn't have the time to fight a war. If I would have had it my way you wouldn't have gotten away with it so lightly.

At benz, apologies for shooting you. I wasn't sure who you were and what your intentions were, so I just started shooting you, with the idea of better safe than sorry.

[Benz282]

At benz, apologies for shooting you. I wasn't sure who you were and what your intentions were, so I just started shooting you, with the idea of better safe than sorry.

No worries. I was only hit twice, one of which seemed to be due to me walking in front of the Dorfs.

[Diglytron]

I like that both factions complain against each other about the fact that ''Oh you guys are all offline and than suddenly log in''. Just wanted to point out that every time i was on, the MOTN where also on.

Also wanted to say that we started building on a new temple. This temple is an Earth Temple. Hail the ground and the master of Dirt!

[Pat89]

I like that both factions complain against each other about the fact that ''Oh you guys are all offline and than suddenly log in''. Just wanted to point out that every time i was on, the MOTN where also on.

Also wanted to say that we started building on a new temple. This temple is an Earth Temple. Hail the ground and the master of Dirt!

An Earth Temple on a floating island?