Balrog....S?

**marceror** · January 01, 2012, 11:51 PM

Is there really supposed to be 10 Balrogs on huge unit sizes in the campaign? In custom battles there is only a single balrog.

I am surprised -- and dismayed -- that I'll be having to fight against TEN of them. I know there have been some limitations around single units, especially with larger unit sizes. I had thought that workarounds had been discovered for those limitations. That said, even if not, why 10? If small unit sizes have 1 Balrog, then normal should have 1.5, which results in 1. Large should have 2, and Huge should have 2.5, which results in 2. How did we end up with ten 38 attack, 20 charge bonus, 56 total defense, 7 hitpoint monsters?!? Oh, and I left out bonus vs. cavalry, effective vs. armor, enemy frightening, excellent moraling monsters!! TEN! I'm scared, and yes, I'm waiting for reinforcements to arrive before I start the battle!!!!

Oh, and did I mention that it's just wonderful that their upkeep is listed as 0? Well it is wonderful, as I was worried the weren't already the the PERFECT tool for the Orcs. Free upkeep? Yep, perfect as fresh pumpkin pie.

**Legourou** · January 02, 2012, 12:00 AM

The Balrog can't move from Moria, so don't expect it to come knocking down your doorstep anytime soon. Lol.

**marceror** · January 02, 2012, 12:06 AM

Well that's reasonable enough, but the problem is, I knocked on HIS doorstep. Correction, I knocked on THEIR doorstep!

And while we're discussing obscenely large numbers of super scary monsters, should Sauron spawn, will there be 10 in him also?

**TWWolfe** · January 02, 2012, 12:13 AM

Originally Posted by Legourou

The Balrog can't move from Moria, so don't expect it to come knocking down your doorstep anytime soon. Lol.

Actually, it can leave Moria, so be on constant lookout for a stack led by the balrog, who is very ticked off that you disturbed his mid-era naptime.

**marceror** · January 02, 2012, 12:22 AM

Everyone keeps saying Balrog (singular). Am I the only one who has a horde of them to contend with?

**ppetrus** · January 02, 2012, 01:21 AM

10 Balrogs is 10x more fun and epicness.

**~~oeffohznvjvkzo~~** · January 02, 2012, 04:36 AM

Yeah I've seen the 10 balrog clone army out on the field.

Took a couple stacks to finally take back the town they took >.>

**SRACon17** · January 02, 2012, 07:03 AM

you can actually capture Moria without awakening the balrog. just place your army in front of the gate of Moria (and behind it) so that no enemies coming from Moria would be able to pass through. DO NOT siege Moria as this would awaken the balrog. then when an enemy comes out, he won't be able to pass through. fight him and in the battle, he will receive reinforcements from Moria. kill everyone including the reinforcements. after the battle, Moria would be empty, and you can capture it directly without any fight and without awakening the balrog. i did this with rohan using just an army of generals.

note that here you didn't siege Moria, so the garrison script was not activated. this can also be used for other settlements with garrison script, just be careful that you DO NOT siege the town, just place your army outside it. it's like "cheating" the garrison script. i took isengard and many other towns with this tactic without actually suffering losses, because i'm using just an army of generals.

**paradamed** · January 02, 2012, 07:30 AM

I always thought adjudant major had figured out a way to spawn a single man unit via script.

**Laaer** · January 02, 2012, 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by marceror

should Sauron spawn, will there be 10 in him also?

I think Sauron is/are 4 in huge unit scale

**Lazy** · January 02, 2012, 09:49 AM

Why dont you just besiege the city and let them starve?
I was waiting with a bunch of militias and 4 ballistas for them to sally out... for 9 turns

That´s a bit strange of course but it works... when they sallied out finally there were only two left...

**SRACon17** · January 02, 2012, 10:23 AM

you can actually capture Moria without awakening the balrog. just place your army in front of the gate of Moria (and behind it) so that no enemies coming from Moria would be able to pass through. DO NOT siege Moria as this would awaken the balrog. then when an enemy comes out, he won't be able to pass through. fight him and in the battle, he will receive reinforcements from Moria. kill everyone including the reinforcements. after the battle, Moria would be empty, and you can capture it directly without any fight and without awakening the balrog. i did this with rohan using just an army of generals.

note that here you didn't siege Moria, so the garrison script was not activated. this can also be used for other settlements with garrison script, just be careful that you DO NOT siege the town, just place your army outside it. it's like "cheating" the garrison script. i took isengard and many other towns with this tactic without actually suffering losses, because i'm using just an army of generals.

**marceror** · January 02, 2012, 12:41 PM

I've been waiting for around 5 turns for my reinforcements to arrive. There are now only 8 Balrogs. This is the turn I plan to attack, as finally have a nice amount of archers to, hopefully, weaken the Balrogs from afar. At least, that's the plan.

**Diadochiwelike** · January 02, 2012, 01:19 PM

Well, I've dealt with the 10 balrogs with 10 units of Silvan Heavy Swordsman while sieging Moria

I expected 1 Huge Balrog, not 10 little Balrogs hehe. They raped 9 units of Silvan Heavy Swordsman. That's where I weakened them. There only were 6 heavily damaged Balrogs left after they raped my units. That's when I used my spare unit of Silvan Elves to finish those 6 off. It worked hehe.

Just siege Moria, after that u have 2 options:
1: Wait them out, that should bring their unit size down.
2: Attack them ASAP and loose a whole stack, but it's more satisfying when u finally kill them.

I choose number 2, and it was worth it.

Btw, since the Balrogs are based on Elephant units ( Right?) ballistas should work fine. Lure them out of Moria and pin them down with low tier units ( with good morale) and shower the Balrogs with ballistas.

Gl and Hf

**Maiar93** · January 02, 2012, 01:28 PM

Bring a huge army and autoresolve.

**Nõwë** · January 02, 2012, 01:29 PM

Sauron, in custom at least, is 1 figure...
"Lure them out of Moria and pin them down with low tier units ( with good morale) and shower the Balrogs with ballistas."
Yes - works best in loose formation...

**Mau5Warrior** · January 02, 2012, 01:32 PM

Just use a shed load of javelin units and they will put the Balrog(s) back to sleep

**marceror** · January 02, 2012, 05:53 PM

Last I checked the High Elves don't have many javelins in their sheds!

The actual battle against the Balrogs and the host of Moria was actually somewhat disappointing. I wasn't good with the idea of losing nearly a full stack of my elven soldiers. I mean, these are elves, not some replaceable rabble low-life grunts. So I decided to wait for all of my reinforcements to arrive, including my slow as molasses balista unit, which came in from Imladris, going the long way through Eregion (I didn't want to get ambushed next to Goblin Fort, which would have been a significantly shorter route).

Well, by the time the siege began, there were only 3 Balrogs left and the original garrison of around 1600 Goblins was down to around 300. I sent a unit of Elven infantry to breakdown the door Moria, and the 3 remaining Balrogs used magic to pass through the door to start attacking those infantry. Perfect, I thought. They're out in the open, and it's only them. I unleash hell with the 840 or so Elven archers (7 units) that are already in perfect position, and even start firing with my balistas. To my surprise, one of the Balrogs falls pretty quickly. I keep firing, knowing that I will hit some of my own soliders, but knowing it is a necessary sacrifice. Next I start sending in my cavalry to do hit and run charges. By the time all 3 Balrogs were dead I had only a few stragglers remaining from my infantry unit, but the price could have been so much higher. Once that was done, taking out the Orc Chieftain and his handful of remaining Goblin warriors was a piece of cake.

I loved fighting in Moria, even if positioning the camera was a bit funky at times. Going into Moria from outside was the toughest part, as I accidentally positioned out 5 or 6 times and had to keep lowering my camera, from the sky back down to the fighting. I love that Moria has 2 sides. I'm guessing that depending on what side you attack from, the experience can be quite different. In spite of a few quirks, I found Moria to be quite the impressive acheivement. Nice job KK!

I was ready for a much more difficult fight. I didn't have a spy in the area, so I had no idea that the enemy was being reduced to a small fraction of it's original strength. At least I walked out of the fight with most of my Elves still intact. I'm going to need them for the battles that lay ahead.