Genoa Late Campaign

[beckyolt]

So, after playing a long time as England I decided to try something new. "What about Genoa? It sounds cool." Then I started a campaign with the Genoese.

So after playing for like 25turns I was very poor, Genoa had been taken by Holy Roman Empire, a Venetian army was camping outside Milan and I had nothing but one stack composed mainly of militia, without any really good troops but some mercenaries, and Kievan Rus troops were ferociously attacking my eastern settlement in the Black Sea ( Caffa? ).

I started a new campaign. This time, I allied HRE ( I know they'll backstab me sooner or later ) and Kievan Rus, am going to ally Papal States.

But how I am supposed to stop the HRE invasion if they have larger and far better armies ( I have militia, they have armoured foot and mounted knights and men at arms ), and Venice, that also has better armies than I do ( although not to the same extent as HRE) , all of that with a tiny treasure?

[Bringer Of Storms]

The Italian factions strive off of their militia. Your militia is better than everyone elses, and militia is cheap. Winning your battles is best to do through numbers.

Being a faction with cities land-locked and cities bordered by sea gives you a great opportunity for trade. Turns 1-3 recruit 3 or 4 diplomats and send them in all directions. Whether you'll be going to war with a faction the next turn or not. Get trade rights with everyone. That is always my first priority no matter what faction I play. To wage war you need money. I don't care if your army is way better than mine, if I have more money, I'll just keep recruiting weaker armies until your dead, or buy all your friends and let them kill you. Build roads, markets, and ports. Anything that increases trade. I'm playing a Roman campaign on Late right now, and the first 10-15 turns I focused on nothing but economy, and 20 turns in, I couldn't spend all my money if I tried.

So what have we learned? Money wins wars.
Italian Factions are militia heavy which means you have a very cost friendly army. Your militia is better than everyone elses.

Although, things may need to be tweaked from what I said, for I'm going off of my Venice campaign I played.

[Ferdiad]

Your a Italian faction and your poor... thats a contradiction right there.

[Ichon]

Genoa early on is the weakest italian faction. That does not mean they are very weak relative to some other factions but you have to deal with HRE fairly quickly usually which can be a chore as it requires a full army in Milan for many turns. Venice and Sicily start with same militia and also additional units Genoa will not have access to until acquiring a high level castle. I recommend capturing Venice immediately. If you try to attack too far away from your base of power early on Venice and HRE are both likely to attack and sometimes even Aragon, Sicily, or Papal States. I've been attacked by all those in the first 15 turns in various campaigns.

Since you know an attack is going to come strike early and the most vulnerable target is usually Venice as the AI most often sends its armies in Hungary/Dalmatia. If Venice is heavily defended for many turns don't waste time- go ahead and capture Bologna since HRE will attack you nearly always at some point. Even when I managed to get HRE as allies they always attacked within 30 turns and if you strike first it will be at least 5 turns before you face serious HRE attacks as it takes a long time for them to move through the passes and if you took Bologna instead of Venice then HRE will have to move thru Venetian territory to reach Bologna which makes excommunication more likely for HRE and soon a problem you no longer have to worry about.

In the early battles your militia will be almost always simple fodder while your General's bodyguards do majority of the work. If you feel confident in your command skills you could take the fight into HRE territory but that is a long journey for reinforcements to make that early. Capturing first Venice or Bologna you will have to defend for a couple battles and meanwhile focus on a quick strike to the most vulnerable nearby city that doesn't start a new war which is another reason I prefer attacking Venice as there are several open targets compared to HRE which only Innsbruck is a decent target which you can often then sell to Venice or Papal States if you don't want to try and hold it vs HRE if you took Bologna.

The next target should usually be Sicily before they gain alot of power. Striking for the island first to capture a good castle. After that just finish off Sicily and you are in a strong position.

Turn 1 don't make more diplomats... making trade treaties with factions you don't border or will soon go to war with is not a priority as there is little benefit in it. The Papal States should be your first priority. Making allies of them is maybe ok but usually they will break alliance with you if HRE attacks or you attack Venice so keep that in mind. The only safe path to make Papal States allies is if you decide to attack HRE. Usually its better just to keep good relations with them until your war with Venice and Sicily is over. Selling trade rights to Venice and HRE after that since they will usually become enemies soon and then looking for a further alliance... Hungary, Castile, England, Denmark, ERE make great allies as they all border your own likely enemies. Just don't make allies with both Hungary and ERE, choose just one. Capture the nearest mainland italian rebel cities within the first 3 turns if possible. Pisa/Milan depending on early or late era campaign. Pisa is better as its more shielded and gives you border with Papal States and another angle of attack on Milan while also having a chance for HRE to attack Milan and weaken its garrison before you siege it.

Spy to watch Innsbruck and Venice to monitor when Venice or Bologna garrisons become low. Concentrate on economic builds with Genoa while Pisa/Milan build better barracks. Send a merchant to the gold in Serbia/Morocco or the sugar in Sicily as the merchant can arrive to those reasonably quickly. I find sugar in Sicily the easier path as less chance of AI merchants robbing you. N Africa is also quite good as Moors often sends its best merchants into Spain and you can make 1,000+ quite early from the gold and ivory in N Africa.

[beckyolt]

So this time I took Venice and have an strong army on it. Holy Roman Empire hasn't broken the alliance so far. But, well, there's a problem: The pope launched a crusade against Gaza some time ago and it's over already, but there's a powerful French crusader army on my lands. I have a fort blocking the pass that goes to Provence, and of course, HRE controls Switzerland. The french keep their army on my lands. Is it because they cannot pass, or is it because they have interests on it?

[Ichon]

So this time I took Venice and have an strong army on it. Holy Roman Empire hasn't broken the alliance so far. But, well, there's a problem: The pope launched a crusade against Gaza some time ago and it's over already, but there's a powerful French crusader army on my lands. I have a fort blocking the pass that goes to Provence, and of course, HRE controls Switzerland. The french keep their army on my lands. Is it because they cannot pass, or is it because they have interests on it?

Probably both. France does that to Genoa all the time. If you abandon the fort that army might leave but just as likely a 2nd army will come to join it.

[beckyolt]

Ehh so what should I do? My position is really fragile. Northern Italy is mine. But HRE has Bologna and the castle I can't remember on middle Italy, that French army scares me and I think the Venetians might be preparing themselves to retake Venice on their eastern settlements.

Hey, and HRE had military acess but I cancelled it.

[Ichon]

Better to leave HRE with military access. It helps keep relations up a tiny bit and really makes little difference other than your lands won't suffer devastation from the HRE army. If HRE decides to attack you it will be pretty obvious and AI barely pays attention to that before setting up an attack.

Genoa is only hard in the first few turns as you have limited resources- money usually is not a problem for me but recruiting enough units is. Garrisoning Milan, Genoa, and Venice while also forming an army to invade Sicily is quite difficult. Spies should help you decide. Get Venice out of Italy and then make peace with them. Can be quite helpful to capture Bologna and Innsbruck and gift Venice Innsbruck for peace or somewhere else like Crete.

The main problem with Genoa that early is no mercenaries are available and the barracks of all the nearest cities and castles aren't very developed. I prefer to build Milan barracks up and economic buildings everywhere else until capturing past Venice. Leaving both a garrison in Milan and Genoa is expensive so you'll probably have to gamble a bit... Leave a spy in whichever city will have the smallest garrison(use only the free upkeep slots) while the main garrison army is in the city nearest the largest opposing army, usually HRE or France. The early French armies are not that imposing, I find the HRE armies usually more dangerous but if you still have peace with HRE and no large army of theirs camping nearby then defend against the French. This way you should free enough of men to campaign somewhere else- hopefully ensuring peace with Venice. Once Venice is either nearly defeated or you have peace with them get HRE out of Italy so you don't have to leave so many men in N Italy guarding against possible attack.

A war with France is not that difficult to defend against once you have kicked their army out of N Italy. A single fort within a turn march of Genoa blocks their access and you can raid into France at your leisure while you work on securing Italy.

If you care about diplomacy wait for HRE or France to attack first as that will help with the Pope but often you simply won't have enough men to afford to wait for an attack unless you don't mind losing a city for a couple turns. HRE is by far the more dangerous opponent in the early game as if they get a solid foothold in N Italy they will flood in armies. Even if you lose Genoa to France its embarrassing but France won't be able to send many reinforcements so if you have to gamble that is your least vulnerable point especially if you have captured Venice as Genoa becomes your 2nd most important economic city if you also own Venice.

[beckyolt]

I haven't been attacked by anyone so far ( except for Venice ofc ). Trying to keep good relations with everyone.

Pope called a Crusade on Cairo. I'll join it, sack Cairo, then sell it to the Papal States. Money, money, money, that's what an Italian faction should aim right?

And I had to sell Ajaccio ( whateaver that small island is called ) a powerful Aragonese army landed on it, and obviously was going to attack it. All I had were 2 general units. A pity. But well, at least I got 11000 florins, and the castle was really underdeveloped.

[RaduAlexandru]

Well I am just in a Late campaign with Genoa

Setup: BGR IV [no limited activities not that that would be a problem since you can recruit generals like a mad man] and most of all Meneth's Compilation full on [including OST] - Dif: VH/H

This is what I did

Turn one - destroyed everything in Caffa disbanded the army embarked the general and sold it to the Papal States for 2500 [they didn't have more] plus trade rights and alliance and next turn I got an alliance with Sicily - forget Venice get Sicily and the Pope as allies - they will not backstab 99% of the time //

Went with all available forces for Pisa - next Bologna - By turn 5 I was at war with HRE and in serious debt but I attacked took and exterminated Venice [it payed off] recruited more troops and took Ancona and Milan

A long drawn out war followed which drew France in - I fought back about 4 sieges of Genoa until now - if you're smart take Ragusa and Zagreb from Venice [or HRE] and give Zagreb to Hungary in exchange of alliance - I also took care to call crusades asap on the Seljuks and Egypt - and if you call a crusade in the first 2 turns you are guaranteed to get rid of most of the HRE and Venetian armies in Italy as they will probably embark on a crusade.

More crucially with Genoa you have to forget about even attempting to get decent professional armies - get as many militia as you can and swamp them - if you only develop Genoa as a military center [for the crossbowmen] and just build roads ports and markets in the rest money will be no issue - trust me even with BGR IV and recruiting generals insanely [since they are the ONLY good HC available for now] [oh and getting many banished because of debt] you still will have enough money to field and constantly retrain at least two full stacks of militia - at one point I had 4 and right now by turn 45 I have 3 at around 80%

The key with Genoa is to secure your southern flank and DON'T mess with the Pope or Sicily - everybody else will in any case attack you so attack them first - If you can get Marseille and give it to the Pope - that will more often than not secure your flank - do not expand into HRE until you have secured all Italy - and that will mean backstabbing Sicily - I haven't done it yet but plan on it as soon as I secure a couple more trading posts [I eliminated Venice btw - took Rhodes and Iraklion and now I want to get Athens asap and then maybe Alexandria or something]


Here's a map

ps: as you can see my current financial situation seems .. desperate - it isn't - it's just because I have two full stacks deployed in foreign territory including one with the FL and the other with the FH plus some major upgrades rolling out - in two turns I should be on + .... as I said money isn't an issue once you have northern Italy

[Ferdiad]

Nice campaign but whats that in the top left corner.

[RaduAlexandru]

that is KMPlayer - a vide player I use because it has the ability to stay on top of anything else on the screen but - it doesn't prevent you from playing or working etc - ie you can select the main window to work on it or play etc but the player stays on top of the screen - very useful - usually I have it expanded a bit to watch movies etc while I am doing something else but since I had to take a ss I made it really small - like a bar. With SS and BGR this is the most useful add-on if I may call it so - because otherwise the turns would be really really boring - this way I can watch parts of a movie while SS and BGR slooooowly [1-2 min] try to make the turns for the AI

For example [that is an episode of House MD btw]

[beckyolt]

So. I avoided war with literally everyone - getting trade rights, making alliances, and I'm at turn 30. The Aragonese threated Ajaccio, so I sold it to them for 11k. At this point I already had a very respectable treasure.

Pope called a Crusade on Cairo. It was an awesome opportunity to gain money, so I joined it, made 8 units of militia and mercenaries, recruited Crusader mercenaries and embarked to the Holy Lands.

There were thousands of Hungarian crusaders led by their king close to Cairo ,and the city was pretty well defended, so I decided to sack Alexandria first and let those guys do most of the job for me. For some reason Cairo's garrinson abandoned the city , so I took it before the Hungarian crusaders could even think about it, and sacked the city.

I had left Alexandria behind,empty, and there was an Saracen army close to it, so I decided to sell alex. to any faction. I couldn't get to the Papal States in that turn, so I decided to sell it to some Polish crusaders nearby. I did it because I had profitable trade rights with Hungary, and I'm thinking about retaking Alexandria later. I don't have alliance or TR with Poland, so...


In the end, the crusade was insanely profitable. I got 11000 from selling Ajaccio, plus ~11000 loot from Alexandria, plus 20000 from selling it to Poland, plus ~11000 when I sacked Cairo. ( not sure about Cairo's loot, don't remember well )

By the end of that turn I had 90k total. At turn 30. I'm pretty proud with this achievement lol. I think even if I try to waste my money on every way possible I couldn't spend all of it.

[Ferdiad]

that is KMPlayer - a vide player I use because it has the ability to stay on top of anything else on the screen but - it doesn't prevent you from playing or working etc - ie you can select the main window to work on it or play etc but the player stays on top of the screen - very useful - usually I have it expanded a bit to watch movies etc while I am doing something else but since I had to take a ss I made it really small - like a bar. With SS and BGR this is the most useful add-on if I may call it so - because otherwise the turns would be really really boring - this way I can watch parts of a movie while SS and BGR slooooowly [1-2 min] try to make the turns for the AI

For example [that is an episode of House MD btw]

I just alt tab and post on the forums.

[beckyolt]

So I'm insanely rich. Haven't played this campaign for a while, stopped in the turn right after the Crusade ended. If I sell Alexandria I'll to 90k money. Quite a good amount for turn 30. But, well... France and HRE started fighting eachother, and I'm allied with both. Which should I choose?

[Ichon]

So I'm insanely rich. Haven't played this campaign for a while, stopped in the turn right after the Crusade ended. If I sell Alexandria I'll to 90k money. Quite a good amount for turn 30. But, well... France and HRE started fighting eachother, and I'm allied with both. Which should I choose?

Who you selling Alexandria to for 90k? In all my campaigns the AI never has that much money past turn 20 and only a few factions (Moors, ERE, Fatimids) have that much money even before then. As more wars start all the AI factions go down to 0 or less. What campaign AI are you using?

[beckyolt]

No. I meant, when I sell Alexandria, I'll have 90k. The total amount of money I have. I had like 50k , I don't know, before the Crusade. The loot from Alexandria, Cairo ( crusade was headed to Cairo ) + what I would get from selling Alex would get me to 90k.

Poland will pay 20k for it. I'd like to sell it to them because I might retake it later in the game, and I don't share borders with Poland nor have important trade rights with them.

[beckyolt]

So guys, which alliance should I keep, France or HRE?

[Ichon]

France... HRE is likely to be excommunicated at some point and you will have to lose your alliance or fight the Pope. Sometimes that is ok result though... banish the Pope to Crete or Jerusalem. France will secure your western borders.

[Ferdiad]

France tends not to collapse as easily as well.