Real "Realism" Mod

[Destin Faroda]

1 - Remove Katana Samurai but retain No-dachis. Make No-dachis recruitable with the first level of the sword dojo but only enable sword dojo with the Strategy of Attack tech rather than Bushido.

Neither katanas nor nodachis were used as (primary) weapons during the Sengoku jidai.

2 - I think this one is already addressed in the 'improved matchlocks' thread in the Tweaks section. Make arrows less accurate but also make many low-tiered units more vulnerable to arrows. Greatly reduce the reloading speed of matchlocks but greatly increase their lethality to make them feel like terrifying, battle tide-changing, charge-stopping mini-cannons as they rightfully are. I do recall arquebuses as being simply an improvement over hand cannons which were of course, like I mentioned earlier sort of more like a mini-cannon. With this modification too there would be no need to apply morale damage to matchlocks RPG-style, cause the massive casualty from the first or first couple shots would do fine enough to cause enemies to waver.

My realism mod has implemented these mechanics.

3 - Merge Katana Samurai with Bow Samurai. Make Bow Samurai more like the Foot Samurai in ROTS. I don't think this will be imba though, considering that Yari and Naginata Samurai tend to have better armor (correct me if I'm wrong here!), and as you mentioned their weapons were better than katanas in melee engagements. Besides, as good as in melee Bow Samurai would be they would be crushed by cavalry charges for lack of mentioned polearms making for an obvious, strategically feasible and historically accurate method of counter.

In my mod, bow samurai are masters of the bow and the sword. However, they stand little chance against charge attacks from polearms.

4 - No-dachis should have bonus against cavalry in addition to being deadly in a charge, though not as good Yaris and Naginatas thus making them more like 'offensive spearmen' type units as opposed to Yaris and Naginatas being 'defensive spearmen' types. Remove Yari Samurai's 'Rapid Advance' skill and move it to No-dachi samurai as well. Also, they wouldn't suck in melee and WILL defeat katana-only units. Any fencing group will tell you that in battles the one with the longer reach weapon always has the advantage.

DaVinci has added anti-cavalry bonus to nodachi samurais in his Shogun 2 Realism+ mod.

5 -Just like agents, only allow one samurai per building chain per city. For instance you are only allowed to recruit either one Naginata or one Yari samurai if you have only one castle town with a Spear Dojo, and you can recruit 3 Bow or Daikyu Samurai if you have 3 castle towns with 3 bow dojos, regardless of level. So if you conquer more of Japan you will naturally have more samurai under your command but they will never be the majority of your army.

Several mods have implemented dynamic unit caps to make samurai rare. It works very well.

[Slim_Ghost]

Neither katanas nor nodachis were used as (primary) weapons during the Sengoku jidai.


My realism mod has implemented these mechanics.


In my mod, bow samurai are masters of the bow and the sword. However, they stand little chance against charge attacks from polearms.


DaVinci has added anti-cavalry bonus to nodachi samurais in his Shogun 2 Realism+ mod.


Several mods have implemented dynamic unit caps to make samurai rare. It works very well.

@Destin Faroda I tried your mod. I like how there is after all a limit implemented to the amount of Samurai I can train but then again...I found that I can easily get around the restriction by hiring every single type of samurai so that once again I end up making samurai full stacks as before. Just instead of 8+ Naginatas and 8+ Bows I get 2 Bows, 2 Yaris, 2 Naginatas, 2 Mounted Yaris, 2 Matchlocks etc etc to a full stack anyways. Still hardly what I'm looking for.

And sigh...tried a lot of other mods too. Still faced with the irritating Hollywood Bulletproof Charging syndrome every single time. Troops just marching in tight formation ignoring bullet and arrows alike charging head-front against missile fire. I mean, sure if the opponents use mere bows and the ones charging are very heavily armored troops or vast in numbers, or use very fast horses but no.

Its just barely equipped yari ashigarus in their cloth/leather armor running through the entire field shrugging off musket volleys like its nothing. Heck, they wouldn't have to run and charge head-front at my muskets/bows. They can just leisurely march in and achieve just about the same effect in the end. Whatever happened to the necessity of flanking or using heavily armored units as a counter?

Or better yet, charging ONLY when they are in the middle of reloading? Whoops, can't have that. Cause ashigarus taking at least half a minute individually (discounting the fact that they might end up reloading much slower from battlefield panic) to reload their muskets is so boring, right?? Might as well make them reload faster like they are using modern rifles and make their bullets hit people like they are just arrows with an RPG 'damages morale' effect.

In b4 muskets work on armored units the best. Please don't tell you guys believe in this RTS-inspired rock-paper-scissors video game logic. Why do you think people come up with full plate armors, cuirasses, kevlar vests, TANKS, etc in response to gunpowder weapons if that's the case? And how people had to come up with even bigger guns to counter thicker armors? If a bullet can take down an armored samurai it will take down a barely armored ashigaru with much greater ease. So, no, ashigarus waltzing in on direct frontal charge against hail after hail of musket fire and going roflstompwin gg isn't realistic.

In b4 muskets have poor accuracy. Says who? Have you actually held and fired one? And whatever inaccuracies muskets have its wholly negated by the fact that its historically used in mass numbers and made to fire at a straight, general direction rather than attempting to pick off individual targets so in the battlefield perspective individual musket inaccuracy factor is moot. Its not like in this game you command like only one or two dudes with guns at a time and tell them to shoot birds out of the air. You are commanding a huge hundred-plus troop, stretched over a line, muskets straight ahead, telling them to fire at an equally huge group of enemy troops approaching head-front. If the targets are within bullet range the bullets WILL HIT. Maybe not 100% of them but definitely a lot of them. (I think this applies equally to bows as well)

In b4 but but they are running so they can avoid bullet fire. Naruto/DBZ fan much? But lets take this argument true for argument's sake. Even this lowly peasant ashigarus have the power to dodge bullets as they charge in keep in mind that they are not running side ways, they are not running backwards. They are running TOWARDS the direction of the musket fire. If anything they are only making themselves even easier of a target to be shot at.

As far as I see in the game, there was completely no need for me to invest in cavalry for flanking muskets or niche units like Date Bulletproof Samurai when all I need to do is to match my ashigaru yari numbers with the opponents' muskets, line them up just nicely against enemy line of fire. And charge them all in.

[Destin Faroda]

Just instead of 8+ Naginatas and 8+ Bows I get 2 Bows, 2 Yaris, 2 Naginatas, 2 Mounted Yaris, 2 Matchlocks etc etc to a full stack anyways. Still hardly what I'm looking for.

Samurai are capped, they have lower unit size and they can lose against melee ashigaru/sohei. There's nothing more that can be done.

Still faced with the irritating Hollywood Bulletproof Charging syndrome every single time. Troops just marching in tight formation ignoring bullet and arrows alike charging head-front against missile fire.

Coming up with a reasonable combat system is not easy, but it can be achieved with some effort. I've fixed the projectiles and stats so now only the bulletproof samurai can charge teppo units and survive.

Its just barely equipped yari ashigarus in their cloth/leather armor running through the entire field shrugging off musket volleys like its nothing. Heck, they wouldn't have to run and charge head-front at my muskets/bows. They can just leisurely march in and achieve just about the same effect in the end. Whatever happened to the necessity of flanking or using heavily armored units as a counter?

That's a problem with the projectile stats and the way how armour works in this game. It can easily be fixed.

As far as I see in the game, there was completely no need for me to invest in cavalry for flanking muskets or niche units like Date Bulletproof Samurai when all I need to do is to match my ashigaru yari numbers with the opponents' muskets, line them up just nicely against enemy line of fire. And charge them all in.

TW games never had a proper combat system. It always required modders to fix the morale, fatigue, projectile and battle mechanics.

[Slim_Ghost]

Yeah....

Its a real shame that even though the games are admittedly fun CA never bothers with making the battles actually realistic. It would be much more fun otherwise. It was as if all logic and realism was cast away to appease the anime/Hollywood junkie crowd.

Muskets aside, you can't imagine how many times I facepalmed too upon CA's numerous instances regarding no-dachis, that they are somehow unwieldy weapons that are only good for flanking in the back.

Look at this video and tell it to my face that nodachis are heavy, slow and cumbersome http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjYwNTY2ODg=.html

Notice how lightweight the nodachis are with the girl spinning around on a heel with it, and how easily that one dude at 3.50 held his sword high up his head on one hand.

Notice how the nodachis are typically swung from high above the head, and how deadly it would be with several of them forming a line advancing while swinging like that. Useless in close quarters combat / tight formation my ass.

Notice how with the light weight and long reach you can hold the blade horizontally and thrust away like a polearm. The specific grappling move at 2.50 in the video. Again, poor defensive ability my ass.

Expensive and rare, yes, but far from being useless compared to the Yari.

[Zikko]

I'm all in for real realism. Btw while waiting anyone know if there's a mod that keeps yari and long yari ashigaru from changing to swords?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

I'm all in for real realism. Btw while waiting anyone know if there's a mod that keeps yari and long yari ashigaru from changing to swords?

I think there are many of it, just google it, if you realy like real realism, you will use sword when enemy closer to you, also there is no point for yari ashigaru carry sword if they not used it, you should try z katana yari for reference , its combine yari and sword into one so if yari ashigaru vs yari ashigaru there will be spear vs spear, spear vs sword, sword vs sword.