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Thread: Economy / Buildings

  1. #1

    Default Economy / Buildings

    Just wanted to say, I'd been eyeing this mod for quite a while -- now that I've finally gotten Kingdoms, voila -- my first campaign as East-Anglia.

    Right off the bat, it's beautiful - the maps, the characters, the units, bravo!

    BUT, this one will be a real challenge for me. only 2-3 turns into the campaign, and I'm -2888 in debt. Even I made sure to disband all my Creole units (the mercs) and moved many of the troops to the capital to receive free upkeep.

    Is this a campaign where much of my income will be dependant on 'the spoils of war' (ie. ransom / sacking) ?

    There are so many buildings, Its a little confusing -- seems to be so many buildings where the primary function is 5 - 10 % public order/happiness, does this indicate that the populace of new territories will be extremely prone to revolt / riot? Or is it just to add a little more flair and option for the player?

    what exactly is the colony system -- I find it confusing - should I always use 'colony' with captured settlements or only if it is from a faction with a different culture?

  2. #2
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by PrestigeX View Post
    Just wanted to say, I'd been eyeing this mod for quite a while -- now that I've finally gotten Kingdoms, voila -- my first campaign as East-Anglia.

    Right off the bat, it's beautiful - the maps, the characters, the units, bravo!
    Welcome mate!

    BUT, this one will be a real challenge for me. only 2-3 turns into the campaign, and I'm -2888 in debt. Even I made sure to disband all my Creole units (the mercs) and moved many of the troops to the capital to receive free upkeep.


    Is this a campaign where much of my income will be dependant on 'the spoils of war' (ie. ransom / sacking) ?
    I'd say the first thing you need to do is to build on your economy - before you do ANYTHING else, secure trade rights and create anything that will give you an increase in money and/or population growth. Wait until your economy is stable before producing troops. With the Viking factions, raiding (attacking, and then sacking then abandoning) is the way to go. With the Saxon factions, not so much. Building up your farms will help a lot.

    There are so many buildings, Its a little confusing -- seems to be so many buildings where the primary function is 5 - 10 % public order/happiness, does this indicate that the populace of new territories will be extremely prone to revolt / riot? Or is it just to add a little more flair and option for the player?
    It's pretty much to add more options for the player to build up happiness in a settlement - a higher happiness can mean more taxes and population growth.

    what exactly is the colony system -- I find it confusing - should I always use 'colony' with captured settlements or only if it is from a faction with a different culture?
    Colonies are like churches/priests - they increase the culture in your settlement. So you ALWAYS want to at least build colonies, but if you're far in enemy lines then you will need the higher levels of colonies to convert it faster. So always always always start building colonies, if not upgrading them as well.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


  3. #3
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by PrestigeX View Post
    BUT, this one will be a real challenge for me. only 2-3 turns into the campaign, and I'm -2888 in debt. Even I made sure to disband all my Creole units (the mercs) and moved many of the troops to the capital to receive free upkeep.
    Is this a campaign where much of my income will be dependant on 'the spoils of war' (ie. ransom / sacking) ?

    I think disbanding was not the best move.
    There are two ways, the first, peaceful start method was summarized well by Heathen Storm.

    I went on an other rout though.
    What is the problem? Relative cost of troops compared to income.
    Either disband or use them. Why not make a conquest which brings some money, with ignoring casualities?
    To be honest killing off your non-family generals (if you have any) is not real casuality, it is a big plus (upkeep).
    What to attack? (I played the southern irish faction) There are rebel cities with big stacks, and there is an AI faction with smaller numbers then the rebels.

    I found it better in the long run to use my starting army to kill of the other irish faction. Roughly doubled my income and secured my back. I was in debt for like 3-4 rounds, but in the end, with 6 settlements it was a quick recovery.


    There are so many buildings, Its a little confusing -- seems to be so many buildings where the primary function is 5 - 10 % public order/happiness, does this indicate that the populace of new territories will be extremely prone to revolt / riot? Or is it just to add a little more flair and option for the player?

    what exactly is the colony system -- I find it confusing - should I always use 'colony' with captured settlements or only if it is from a faction with a different culture?
    Same here. It is a bit overwhelming to me as well.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    thank you both for the replies.

    I think that as East-Anglia, a relatively small faction to start - and with so many rebels nearby - and the fact that immediately I had to fight a Viking Force... I went on a war path.

    I have quite enough men, to take over atleast a 3-4 rebel towns - so maybe after that I'll be out of the red =).
    that I'm allied with the other Saxons makes me a little uneasy about war with a 'proper faction' - perhaps they'll all gang up on me. Especially MErcia, its so large and the description says that Anglia only just freed itself of 'the mercian yoke'.

    Neway, I understand what the COlony system -- and I wont let all the 'public works' type buildings confuse me, I'll just build whatever looks cool =)

    p.s. -- Very unique fighting in battle map, so much to do with infantry tactics - I will use heavy infantry as the Bulls head and lighter infantry as the Horns - and super-heavies (herothgies / saxon bodyguard) as special reserve to smash weak spots =)

  5. #5
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by PrestigeX View Post
    that I'm allied with the other Saxons makes me a little uneasy about war with a 'proper faction' - perhaps they'll all gang up on me. Especially MErcia, its so large and the description says that Anglia only just freed itself of 'the mercian yoke'.
    After I checked a few starting positions I came to the conclusion that my idea of instant warpath might not suit every nation.
    With Munster it works, as there was an AI nation of roughly the same power next door, and nearly all provinces on the island are at least 75% irish.
    But with for example Gwynedd (whatever, the welsh) it is not advised, as there are 3 rebel towns with 90% celtic culture nearby, the provinces under AI control are 0% celtic, so warpath against Mercia (I think them) doesn't bring benefits instantly. This might be the case with scots too, I think.

    Oh, and on Mercia: they are in a war in the west with the welsh.

    Neway, I understand what the COlony system -- and I wont let all the 'public works' type buildings confuse me, I'll just build whatever looks cool =)
    Same with me, I build the trade fleets, and whatever gives trade bonus, that cannot hurt


    p.s. -- Very unique fighting in battle map, so much to do with infantry tactics - I will use heavy infantry as the Bulls head and lighter infantry as the Horns - and super-heavies (herothgies / saxon bodyguard) as special reserve to smash weak spots =)
    Hehe, good for you.
    The irish have all sorts of cr.ppy javelins and spearmen, I always seem to lose 10-15% of my men. (the opposition throws lots of javs before my infantry traps close)

  6. #6
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    A bit of an update...

    I was able to get about half of Ireland, signed trade deals with most reachable factions (From Alba to Normandy), and the trade post/+1 trade good/+1 trade line building lines function well. Even with low populations I am at around 10-20k at beginning of the turn, with building something in every settlement constantly, and maintaining 1 full and 2 half stack. (the 2 halfs are in garrison tho)

    Also, when I figure out how to train merchants, I will, as my honey-merchant (skill=3) makes about 80 per turn for a recruitment cost of 100.


    As for the roster:
    I miss some bows and cavalry for sure, at the moment I use only sword+shields and 2handed. (the javeliners are not really useful in battle, maybe 1 unit to draw the enemy close).
    I have no idea what I will do in siege defense

  7. #7
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Just a bit of advice on the losses, if you use 4-5 units of your own javelin troops to absorb the enemy fire.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    weaker fresh troops are often more effective than superior but exhausted troops. Skirmishers generally have very high endurance, so they will be fresher for longer. The point of this game is to cause the enemy to rout - and the most effective way of doing that with all infantry armies is to swamp one flank. A well timed volley of javelins just before - or during the massive charge / counter charge on your chosen victims will have a very strong effect on enemy moral. They are also useful for running down fleeing troops.

    As for the OP, I found the important thing was 1. trade (as always) and 2. free upkeep buildings. Seemed to be some bug in farming bonuses for me, they made very little difference to pop growth, trade was better...

    Many of the higher teir buildings arent really worth the cost of construction.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    I'm finding the Javelin troops far more usefull than I'd initially thought.

    It isn't quite like 'vanilla m2tw' where you want to have 4-6 'missile troops (likely archers/xbows etc), but more so .. One to Three units of Javelin, just to act as a screen for the army - launch a volley or two, and more importantly, to be used in harassing the enemy that hasn't engaged (enemy in reserve) - or to even launch their missiles into the fray if they have the chance (space opens, they get into flank position, they're on a hill).

    IDK how it would be with one of those factions that relies more on light inf -- but it's been good as the Saxons (East-Anglia). I'm getting the hang of it, ai is surprising sometimes --- and the Viking / "Viking Style" enemies are really terrifying -- easily out man them 2 even 3 to one!, but even then victory is not assured they're tough and scary.

    I can't imagine how it'll be facing up against the Normans (if they make survive long enough) probably even harder.

  10. #10
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    Just a bit of advice on the losses, if you use 4-5 units of your own javelin troops to absorb the enemy fire.
    =CambysesThe point of this game is to cause the enemy to rout - and the most effective way of doing that with all infantry armies is to swamp one flank. A well timed volley of javelins just before - or during the massive charge / counter charge on your chosen victims will have a very strong effect on enemy moral. They are also useful for running down fleeing troops.
    I usually use them
    - to 'pull' enemy units (if they don't come, well then they just get the full bag of javelins)
    - then retreat and wait for enemy routing, then they are fast enough to catch up to panicing heavy inf

    kinda like you guys, but I usually don't take more then 2 units.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cambyses
    1. trade (as always) and 2. free upkeep buildings. Seemed to be some bug in farming bonuses for me, they made very little difference to pop growth, trade was better...
    I concur, for me the trade buildings (be it shipyard or new resource like brewery) are working well.
    For pop growth, what seems to be working are the one which give direct pop growth (like horse mill), and trade itself.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cambyses
    Many of the higher teir buildings arent really worth the cost of construction.
    Yep, royal demense, 12k for 6% conversion? Thanks but no
    (well, if I come near the 50k limit, I definietly will build all sorts of useless junk)


    Quote Originally Posted by PrestigeX
    IDK how it would be with one of those factions that relies more on light inf -- but it's been good as the Saxons (East-Anglia). I'm getting the hang of it, ai is surprising sometimes --- and the Viking / "Viking Style" enemies are really terrifying -- easily out man them 2 even 3 to one!, but even then victory is not assured they're tough and scary.
    I can't imagine how it'll be facing up against the Normans (if they make survive long enough) probably even harder.
    Irish are pretty light, but until you don't leave your island you will face similar troops.

    Vikings: no problem! They landed at my neighbour (dark green irish) and got a diplomatic offer from me, so we are now in peace. There was a viking landing near one of my cities, but they wandered away. Actually they were happy to sign the peace I offered (Delighted + on very good terms for now)

    Normanns: check them out with a ship and a diplomat. They sign alliance easily because they are weak. In my game they have a half stack and 1 city... (I think the AI doesn't cope well with the full stack rebel cities)

  11. #11
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    @Shikaka actually the Royal Demesne unlocks a lot of other buildings that can be very useful, like (if i remember correctly) a 20% bonus to law! Very useful later in the game when corruption runs rampant.

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


  12. #12

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Hi Guys,

    Congrats, this mod is really what i've been waiting for since MTWI Viking Invasion. Beautiful map, nice units. Great idea with Goverment system and tech tree. It's quite easy to understand but i have one basic question.

    I started my first campaign with Munster. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i picked up one thing: When i play faction that doestn' field any heavy cavalry (in this case Munster), it doesn't matter how much i develop my Horse Trader, Horse Breeder etc., i won't be able to train any heavy units beside basic cavalry ("Muc-somethnig" - javelinethrowing cavalry)?

    Does it work that way?

  13. #13
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Yes, though i believe you get experience bonuses at each level.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by smoesville View Post
    Yes, though i believe you get experience bonuses at each level.
    Ok, so i see i should pay atention to natural limitations for each faction. I noticed in descripion that Munster have completely no archers but i thought their archer units would be considerably weak or something like that.

    I think it's good solution to differ factions armies. In vanilla or Kingdoms every faction has it's own, specific missile units (archers, crossbowmen) and it was only a matter of developing specific building tree. Now, playing Munster, i have to recruit any mercenary archers, what is desireble since they, i think, are quite powerful.

    Thanks.

  15. #15
    shikaka's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by ahafan View Post
    Ok, so i see i should pay atention to natural limitations for each faction. I noticed in descripion that Munster have completely no archers but i thought their archer units would be considerably weak or something like that.

    I think it's good solution to differ factions armies. In vanilla or Kingdoms every faction has it's own, specific missile units (archers, crossbowmen) and it was only a matter of developing specific building tree. Now, playing Munster, i have to recruit any mercenary archers, what is desireble since they, i think, are quite powerful.

    Thanks.

    You will roll in dough once you capture the island, build ports, and send over a diplomat to sign trade agreements.

    BUT mercenery archers are not necessery. It is easy to roll with irish middle class infantry only. Your front will be very wide because of your numerous melee units, and it is easy to pocket enemies
    (AI trying to come out during a siege is different - you cannot preplace your units)

  16. #16

    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by shikaka View Post
    You will roll in dough once you capture the island, build ports, and send over a diplomat to sign trade agreements.

    BUT mercenery archers are not necessery. It is easy to roll with irish middle class infantry only. Your front will be very wide because of your numerous melee units, and it is easy to pocket enemies
    (AI trying to come out during a siege is different - you cannot preplace your units)
    Thanks for reply.

    At the moment i don't need to conquer the whole Green Island. I just took three neighbouring rebel provinces and concentrated on picking up mod's mechanic. I have an alliance with Connacht, signed trade agreements with all factions and sent merchants to Britain (if placed properly abroad they can bring up to 800 per turn each).

    I have to admit that economics is very good, as long as you develop all tech trees that provide income. Instead of fighting with everybody i manage my kingdom so good that i have about 10 000 income per turn and literally i don't know what to do with money - but that's good i suppose

    I have one question about government system. I abandoned my Munster Kingdom for a while and started Normans campaign. I took small settlement on the island near to Wessex shores. Culture is 70% saxon, i built Muster Fields and colony and vassal system and still not able to recruit any local units (no units at all). With such culture proportion i suppose i need to built Regional Barracks (first village council and town watch) in order to muster specific local units?

  17. #17
    smoesville's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    All local units are trained through the regional barracks. It will take a long while for the low level colony to get the level of culture.
    Were there but a tree in this godforsaken place i would have hanged myself.

  18. #18
    Heathen Storm's Avatar Where's my axe?
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Quote Originally Posted by ahafan View Post
    Thanks for reply.

    At the moment i don't need to conquer the whole Green Island. I just took three neighbouring rebel provinces and concentrated on picking up mod's mechanic. I have an alliance with Connacht, signed trade agreements with all factions and sent merchants to Britain (if placed properly abroad they can bring up to 800 per turn each).

    I have to admit that economics is very good, as long as you develop all tech trees that provide income. Instead of fighting with everybody i manage my kingdom so good that i have about 10 000 income per turn and literally i don't know what to do with money - but that's good i suppose

    I have one question about government system. I abandoned my Munster Kingdom for a while and started Normans campaign. I took small settlement on the island near to Wessex shores. Culture is 70% saxon, i built Muster Fields and colony and vassal system and still not able to recruit any local units (no units at all). With such culture proportion i suppose i need to built Regional Barracks (first village council and town watch) in order to muster specific local units?
    Yes building the regional barracks will help. You need 70% culture to recruit your faction's units, so just give it time and you will soon

    Proud mod leader, modeller and public relations officer of Heiğinn Veğr: Total War


  19. #19
    Merula's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Whenever i found myself lacking funds in TLK, i just did what the vikings did, rape and pillage! It really does work

    Also, Heathen, check your PM's

  20. #20
    AuroN2's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: Economy / Buildings

    Maybe there should be a script for all factions so that when you burn a tile you get half the profit that the enemy loses (i.e really bad is 500, you get 250)
    that would make struggling militaries more easy to handlebar.

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