The Phalanx and stats relationship

[Ano2]

As most warfare in the time period of the mod is phalanx based, the phalanx is going to need to be tweaked to be almost perfect.

There are a number of stats which are important in representing the true nature of hoplite warfare. I am not trying to tell the modders how to sow the stats here, I am merely stating the things I have found from messing around with stats for ages.

Okay so the hoplite phalanx goes as follows:

Try to break the enemy with a charge
Try to maintain discipline
Try to push the enemy
Try to break the enemies' morale.

Casulties were usually light until the rout, as far as i can tell so I think the whole emphasis of hoplite warfare should be on breaking the morale of your enemy.

Now the first way to minimise casulties is to have a low attack value and high defense skill. Not armour, not shield, but defense skill. This judges the individual's ability to withstand melee attacks. Armour and shield are also important, but there stats need to be lower as they relate to missile attack as well. If you make em too high, missiles become useless.

Secondly, is formation. For well drilled troops such as the Spartans they will need a tighter formation. This is not done by giving them a special ability, but simply by giving them the extremely disciplined attirbute, and narrowing the space between men. I dunno if this mod is using shield wall, but if it does then the formation will be real tight.

Thirdly is charge values. I have not messed around much with these, since they were not working in 1.2, however obviously troops that were better at disrupting the enemy lines should have a higher value. Note that mass plays an important part in this, and must be use din conjunction with charge values.

Fourthly is morale. Morale is a tricky one, as I found out when making my morale mod's for RTR 6.0. It needs to be high enough to stop instant rout, but also not allow them to fight to the death. This is simply a case of trial and error, and once you find some good numbers, is best not to stray too far.

Hope all this helps.

[Rorarii]

'One Step More!' .. this seems an important aspect of phalanx fighting, can it be introduced?

[Ano2]

I don't what stats relate to pushing, plus since you can't send large groups of opponents tumbling I'm not sure if thereis much point.

[spirit_of_rob]

Thanks for your interest

Once again we are stuck with what CA has given us we can only "change the shape of things" we cannot create entirely new things.

The phalanx is still been tweaked with and there has been alot of experimenting with what can be done for it. rest assured we will do it as well as we can.

[Snevets]

You know though we could always give the hoplite the 'shock/launching' ability, that would make for some interestingly realistic phalanx fighting.

[k_raso]

You know though we could always give the hoplite the 'shock/launching' ability, that would make for some interestingly realistic phalanx fighting.

The what?

Could you explain more on that point???

[Snevets]

You know how horses in RTW have shock value, the potential to send other units flying? That would happen with hoplites, except they would just push eachother back, not launch eachother because they wouldn't be going nearly fast enough. It would just mean that initial contact would be that much more brutal hahaha.

[Ano2]

That actually sounds good... anyone done any testing on this?

[Curtis13]

That's a really cool idea. Someone test this! :p

[GatorMarine1833]

I've dont that before. I find that it reflects phalanx on phalanx battles really well. It also ballances Hoplites into other RTW mods well.

Basically theyre primary attack isn't that high (so individually they aren't that great) but they have really high charge bonus (so it reflects that when the charge is where the most damage is done [apart from chasing the routing units, most casualties were when the two sides clashed, the ensuing melee caused only minimal casualtys]) and the mass modifier is set either really high, or just slightly higher depending on how organized, disciplined, heavy, or coordinated a unit is.

What happens then with this is say two hoplite units clash head on, both with morale set fairly low and the same attack/charge values as each other and they also have the same defense. One has a mass modifier of 10, the other of 7. When they clash, the one with MM of 10 will initially push the other back a bit and it will hold formation better. The one with MM of 7 will start to lose its formation. The melee will be grinding and as the lesser unit's formation gets more and more broken, it will start to lose more men then the other and will lose morale.

[Snevets]

So it looks like we we've taken 'one step more' in the right direction