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Thread: Indian faction

  1. #61

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Quote Originally Posted by medieval5467
    I think one of the reasons he probably pressed into India, was the same reason many other invaders would do over the years - tales of Indian wealth. This is afterall, what prompted both Arab and European invasion many centuries later - infact quests for Indian wealth have arguably played a large part in human history - with many of the great voyages of Europe, including the discovery of the Americas, being undertaken as a means of finding a new route to India. In this respect, he did exceed the original intention of ending the Persian threat somewhat.
    Quite. Like I said (and by all accounts) Alexander was an extremely ambitious man who did not quite know when to stop.

    Quote Originally Posted by medieval5467
    You mentioned how Alexander had a large cultural effect on the world, not unlike Ghenghis Khan, with remote tribes still following some Greek customs - but in this respect, Chandragupta Maurya, or more accuratly Asoka Maurya, whilst for some reason lesser known than their contemporaries had no less an influence on the world [...]Chandragupa conquered an area (India) that was still pretty massive - easily more than half the area that Alexander conquered probably, perhaps a larger population, a larger economy, and held it - so did he really have any less of a "cultural phenomenon which affected a huge geographical area" as you put it?
    My point is that Alexander was in fact quite UNLIKE Ghenghis Khan or Attila, who were powerful leaders and great conquerors but little more than that. In fact the cultural impact on the areas they conquered was virtually non-existent. What they did cause was a shockwave due to shifting of populations/death toll and their negative effects on economy and growth. In the end the Hordes disbanded, people rebuilt and promptly forgot about the horror of the Huns and Mongols. They left behind a wake of destruction, a lesson of humility to overconfident military commanders and scorched land. No one ever identified culturally with them, no one treated them as liberators or adopted their customs. Not so with Alexander. Many cities who chafed under Persian rule welcomed him (and later became fully independent) and the city of Alexandria which he founded in Egypt became a trade and cultural centre of the world (being much more important than Rome as a place of knowledge and science).
    Alexander's conquest marked the beginning of the Hellenistic era, where Greek culture was widely spread throughout the area of the Mediterranean Sea and the western part of Asia. It was the era when scientific knowledge reached its peak during the Antiquity, just before the huge plummet into the abyss of the Dark Ages in Europe (when the task of preserving ancient knowledge fell upon the Byzantines and Arabs). India is a great land, but culturally not as diverse as the area which Alexander affected. Thus Alexander's impact was as significant as it is considered today not only because of the land mass covered, but because of the cultural interaction which resulted from his conquest. Alexandria, for example, brought together Greek theoretical knowledge and scientific thought with the superior (in many cases) technical aptitude of the Egyptians which produced an unprecedented burst of research. You can easily understand the impact of these events on the world we know today.

    That is not to say I am attempting to discredit or demean Indian culture, only to say that its impact on the rest of the world was probably not as widespread, especially on the Western world which, for better or worse, is supposed to be the dominant culture of our time. However I am greatly intrigued by your brief exposition of these two prominent Indians and will certainly try to find more about them (who am I to doubt Well's opinion, anyway?)

  2. #62

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Im glad you are interested in them - I still think the infleunce of Asoka and Chandragupta was comparible to Alexander, but it is best left for historians to decide - although I must say that in terms of number of people and geographical area, influecing asia only, is no small feat - since India, China and ASEAN have large economies and populations, the day may come when these figures are as well known worldwide as the European kings and Emperors - and some might say that Genghis Khan had more of a cultural effect on a wider area than Alexander - with people across China, India, Persia, Central Asia and Russia being directly effected by his exploits...

  3. #63

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    Yes but Gengis khan was a conqueror of lands mostly unhabited like steppes or easily invadeable , apart the china ....Alexander instead faced with a small army way inferior in number to the one of the persians , but also psichologically was like a little guy that was to fight a huge giant ....

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  4. #64

    Default Re: Indian faction

    He conquered parts of Persia, Central Asia, etc too :-)

  5. #65

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Parts of Persia and central asia made of steppes tough ...


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  6. #66
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    Default Re: Indian faction

    They still reached Iraq and the Levant however. And as far as I know those arent steppe countrys.
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  7. #67

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    Still steppes , unrelevant enemies and not much populated lands, the China was already in decline when the Mongols arrived , had so an easy prey on them ....

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  8. #68

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Here the conquests of Alexander....



    Not much of India tough , more Pakistan , anyway the successor heirs of Alexander withthe Bactrian Kindom would conquer more lands there...

    Actually part of India was dominated by greeks along this timespan ....


    190 BC: Bactrian king Euthydemus defeats Seleucid king Antiochus III at Magnesia
    170 BC: Batrian king Demetrios I expands Bactria to northwestern India
    155 BC: Bactrian king Menander invades northwestern India
    150 BC: Patanjali writes the "Yoga Sutras"
    150 BC: the Andhras under king Krishna move their capital to Paithan
    150 BC: the "Kama" sutra is composed
    100 BC: India is mainly divided among Bactria (northwest), Andhras (east) and Sungas (south)
    100 BC: the Bhagavata Gita is composed
    80 BC: the Scythians (Sakas) under Bhumaka conquer northwestern India from Bactria
    Last edited by PROMETHEUS ts; June 10, 2006 at 07:08 AM.

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  9. #69

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts
    190 BC: Bactrian king Euthydemus defeats Seleucid king Antiochus III at Magnesia
    170 BC: Batrian king Demetrios I expands Bactria to northwestern India
    155 BC: Bactrian king Menander invades northwestern India
    150 BC: Patanjali writes the "Yoga Sutras"
    150 BC: the Andhras under king Krishna move their capital to Paithan
    150 BC: the "Kama" sutra is composed
    100 BC: India is mainly divided among Bactria (northwest), Andhras (east) and Sungas (south)
    100 BC: the Bhagavata Gita is composed
    80 BC: the Scythians (Sakas) under Bhumaka conquer northwestern India from Bactria
    Actually the Andras were South, and the Shungas East. The region conquered by the Greco-Persians in ancient times is no longer part of India - Pakistan was obiously partitioned in the 1940's - but the main region that came under Bactrian (i.e. mixed Persian, Greek, Central Asian and Indian culture) influence, ancient Gandhara, is today Afghanistan. Afghanistan is like India's Tibet - a barren and sparesly populated land that has very rarely been part of Indian empires, because like Tibet is isolated from China by Himalayan plateau, so is Afghanistan isolated from India by the Hindu Kush mountains.

    So when you say part of India was dominated by the Greeks, really that isnt entirely accurate - because that part of India is not actually in India (or most of Pakistan), and the word domination implies some sort of Hellenic state, when Afghani culture of the time was pretty much equally divided between Indian and Persian cultural spheres - and then Greek influence too after Alexander's invasion.

    Greek culture of course reached India like Indian culture reached Greece (with some schools of classical Greek philosophy actually being Indian in origin, and the earliest Buddhist art being influenced by Hellenic anatomical realism, etc) - both influencing each other in some respects - but there has never exactly been a Hellenic state in the land that makes up modern India - and the short-lived satrapy of Alexander, which was as much Persian as Greek considering his forces, was confined to the region of modern Pakistan, which was quickly re-absorbed into India.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Indian faction

    From Wikipedia

    Indo-Greek rule (180-30 BCE)

    In 180 BCE, the Indo-Greeks, invaded parts of northwest and northern India. They are an extension of the Greco-Bactrian dynasty of Greek kings (the Euthydemids) located in neighbouring Bactria.

    The invasion of northern India followed the destruction of the Mauryan dynasty by the general Pusyamitra Sunga, who then founded the new Indian Sunga dynasty (185 BCE-78 BCE). The Indo-Greek king Demetrius I of Bactria went as far as the capital Pataliputra in eastern India (today Patna): "Those who came after Alexander went to the Ganges and Pataliputra" (Strabo, XV.698). The Indian records also describes Greek attacks on Saketa, Panchala, Mathura and Pataliputra (Gargi-Samhita, Yuga Purana chapter).

    The Indo-Greeks ruled various part of northern and northwestern India until the end of the 1st century BC, while the Sungas remained in the east.

    In this pic u can see Pataliputra and so see where the Greeks arrived ....


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  11. #71

    Default Re: Indian faction

    I may not be a professional historian, but I have never heard of Indo-Greeks reaching as far east as Pataliputra - not even just with an army, although it is possible that this account is of such an event, and assumes that the Indo-Greeks dominated this region, when they may have simply marched an army through it. By the time of the Shunga dynasty, the Magadhan Empire had shrunk, however it dosent make sence that a few thousand Greek colinists managed to preserve a kingdom up to this point - Gandhara had been conquered by the Mauryans for almost a century before the Shunga dynasty - supposing it is correct - the question becomes just how 'Indo-Greek' was this empire? In the past there has been cases of colonial historians in the last century making eastern history as Euro-centric as they can, the accounts of the Indo-Greek kingdom may be such a relic - I question how a few thousand Greek colonists left behind by Alexander's invasion could maintain enough influence on the region for anything that could be called a Hellenic state to remain... Do kings of Greek/Persian/Indian ancestry ruling a nation of Persio-Indians count as a Greek invasion?



    The map above shows the extent of the Shunga dynasty's domain, in the same period - there is significant overlap with the alleged Indo-Greek regions - one has to be wrong, and from what I know of the period - I would say that either this tale of the 'Indo-Greeks' reaching Pataliputra isnt correct, or mearly refers to an unnsuccessfull invasion attempt - which would have no doubt been composed of Indian and perhaps Persian troops anyway. Hence these Indo-Greeks may have conquered as far as the Indus valley, but again, no further, and obiously not for long. As a fan of Indian culture, I feel no shame in admitting that Greeks conquered the northwest (i.e. the Indus Valley) of India briefly under Alexander and 'Indo-Greek' dynasties, afterall, cultural boundries are a human construct, with no culture being without the influence of others, Alexander arguably took as much Indian influence back to Greece as vis a vis - but the idea that they went further east in anything more than an expidition is a pretty liberal interpretation of history in my opinion.
    Last edited by medieval5467; June 10, 2006 at 10:22 AM.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Indian faction

    I haven't made any assumption , I just posted what wikipedia states , but also is stated on severall other hystory books , Strabo and other historians , probably even indian ones according wto the wikipedia fonts , in their article there could be a bibliography ...

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  13. #73

    Default Re: Indian faction

    A larger quote , always from wikipedia.....
    Evidence of the initial invasion
    [edit]

    Greco-Roman sources
    The founder of the Indo-Greek Kingdom Demetrius I (205–171 BCE), wearing the scalp of an elephant, symbol of his conquest of India.
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    The founder of the Indo-Greek Kingdom Demetrius I (205–171 BCE), wearing the scalp of an elephant, symbol of his conquest of India.

    According to Strabo, Greek advances temporarily went as far as the Sunga capital Pataliputra (today Patna) in eastern India:

    "Those who, after Alexander, advanced beyond the Hypanis, to the Ganges and Pataliputra." (Strabo, 15-1-27 [1])

    The 1st century BCE Greek historian Apollodorus, quoted by Strabo, affirms that the Bactrian Greeks, led by Demetrius I and Menander, conquered India and occupied a larger territory than the Macedonians under Alexander the Great, going beyond the Hypanis towards the Himalayas [2].

    The Roman historian Justin also mentionned the Indo-Greek conquests, describing Demetrius as "King of the Indians" ("Regis Indorum"), and explaining that after vanquishing him Eucratides in turn "put India under his rule" ("Indiam in potestatem redegit") [3]. Although "India" only meant the upper Indus for Alexander the Great, since the embassies of Megasthenes in the 3rd century BCE "India" meant to the Greeks most of the northern half of the Indian subcontinent, an area roughly corresponding to the extent of the Mauryan Empire at its largest.

    To the south, the Greeks occupied the areas of the Sindh and Gujarat down to the region of Surat (Greek: Saraostus) near Mumbai (Bombay), including the strategic harbour of Barigaza (Bharuch), as attested by several writers (Strabo 11; Periplus of the Erythraean Sea, ch.41) and as evidenced by coins dating from the Indo-Greek ruler Apollodotus I:

    "The Greeks... took possession, not only of Patalena, but also, on the rest of the coast, of what is called the kingdom of Saraostus and Sigerdis." (Strabo 11.11.1 [4])

    [edit]

    Indian sources

    Various Indian records describe Greek (called Yavana) attacks on Mathura, Panchala, Saketa, and Pataliputra. Patanjali, a grammarian and commentator on Panini around 150 BCE, describes in the Mahābhāsya [5], the invasion in two examples using the imperfect tense of Sanskrit, denoting a recent event:

    * "Arunad Yavanah Sāketam" ("The Yavana [Greeks] were besieging Saketa")
    * "Arunad Yavano Madhyamikām" ("The Yavana were besieging Madhyamika (the "Middle country")").

    The Anushasanaparava of the Mahabharata affirms that the country of Mathura, the heartland of India, was under the joint control of the Yavanas and the Kambojas [6]. Accounts of battles between the Greeks and the Sunga in Central India are also found in the Mālavikāgnimitra, a play by Kālidāsa which describes a battle between Greek forces and Vasumitra, the grandson of Pushyamitra, during the latter's reign. [7].

    Also the Brahmanical text of the Yuga Purana, which describes Indian historical events in the form of a prophecy [8], relates the attack of the Indo-Greeks on the capital Pataliputra, a magnificent fortified city with 570 towers and 64 gates according to Megasthenes [9], and describes the ultimate destruction of the city's walls:

    "Then, after having approached Saketa together with the Panchalas and the Mathuras, the Yavanas, valiant in battle, will reach Kusumadhvaja ("The town of the flower-standard", Pataliputra). Then, once Puspapura (another name of Pataliputra) has been reached and its celebrated mud[-walls] cast down, all the realm will be in disorder." (Yuga Purana, Paragraph 47-48, 2002 edition.)

    According to the Yuga Purana a situation of complete social disorder follows, in which the Yavanas rule and mingle with the people, and the position of the Brahmins and the Sudras is inverted:

    "Sudras will also be utterers of bho (a form of address used towards an equal or inferior), and Brahmins will be utterers of arya (a form of address used towards a superior), and the elders, most fearful of dharma, will fearlessly exploit the people. And in the city the Yavanas, the princes, will make this people acquainted with them: but the Yavanas, infatuated by war, will not remain in Madhyadesa." (Yuga Purana, Paragraph 55-56, 2002 edition.)

    [edit]

    Archeological remains
    Indo-Greek stone palette representing an Hellenistic Nereid goddess riding a Ketos sea-monster, 2nd century BCE, Sirkap.
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    Indo-Greek stone palette representing an Hellenistic Nereid goddess riding a Ketos sea-monster, 2nd century BCE, Sirkap.

    The city of Sirkap, today in northwestern Pakistan, was built according to the "Hippodamian" grid-plan characteristic of Greek cities, suggesting it may have been built by Demetrius. Numerous Hellenistic artifacts have been found, in particular coins of Greco-Bactrian kings and stone palettes representing Greek mythological scenes. Some of them are purely Hellenistic, others indicate an evolution of the Greco-Bactrian styles found at Ai-Khanoum towards more indianized styles. For example, accessories such as Indian ankle bracelets can be found on some representations of Greek mythological figures such as Artemis. Various Buddhist structures, such as the Butkara Stupa in the area of Swat were decorated with Hellenistic architectural elements from the 2nd century BCE [10].

    Ancient fortifications have been unearthed in Rajagriha, south of Pataliputra, which are similar in structure to the Indo-Greek fortifications of Sirkap and Barikot: stone walls connected by jutting rectangular towers, reinforced by a low structure to repel siege machinery, in contrast to the mud walls used throughout the country at that time [11].
    [edit]

    Retreat
    Tetradrachm of Menander I (160-135 BCE) in Greco-Bactrian style (Alexandria-Kapisa mint). Obv: King Menander throwing a spear. Rev: Athena with thunderbolt. Greek legend: BASILEOS SOTĒROS MENANDROU "Of King Menander, the Saviour".
    Enlarge
    Tetradrachm of Menander I (160-135 BCE) in Greco-Bactrian style (Alexandria-Kapisa mint).
    Obv: King Menander throwing a spear.
    Rev: Athena with thunderbolt. Greek legend: BASILEOS SOTĒROS MENANDROU "Of King Menander, the Saviour".

    The first invasion was completed by 175 BCE, as the Indo-Greeks contained the Sungas to the area eastward of Pataliputra, and established their rule on the new territory. Back in Bactria however, around 170 BCE, an usurper named Eucratides managed to topple the Euthydemid dynasty. He took for himself the title of king and started a civil war by invading the Indo-Greek territory, forcing the Indo-Greeks to retreat from their easternmost possessions and establish their new oriental frontier at Mathura, to confront this new threat:

    "The Yavanas, infatuated by war, will not remain in Madhadesa (the Middle Country). There will be mutual agreement among them to leave, due to a terrible and very dreadful war having broken out in their own realm." (Yuga Purana, paragraphs 56-57, 2002 edition).

    The Hathigumpha inscription, written by the king of Kalinga, Kharavela, also describes the presence of the Greek king "Demetrius" with his army in eastern India, apparently as far as the city of Rajagriha about 70 km southeast of Pataliputra and one of the foremost Buddhist sacred cities, but claims that Demetrius ultimately retreated to Mathura on hearing of Kharavela's military successes further south:

    "Then in the eighth year, (Kharavela) with a large army having sacked Goradhagiri causes pressure on Rajagaha (Rajagriha). On account of the loud report of this act of valour, the Yavana (Greek) King Dimi[ta] retreated to Mathura having extricated his demoralized army and transport." Hathigumpha inscription, in Epigraphia Indica, Vol. XX [12].

    In any case, Eucratides seems to have occupied territory as far as the Indus, between ca 170 BCE and 150 BCE. His advances were ultimately checked by the Indo-Greek king Menander I (Milinda), previously a general of Demetrius, who asserted himself in the Indian part of the empire, apparently conquered Bactria as indicated by his issue of coins in the Greco-Bactrian style, and even began the last expansions eastwards.
    [edit]

    Consolidation and rise of Menander I
    Detail of Asia in the Ptolemy world map. The "Menander Mons" are in the center of the map, at the east of the Indian subcontinent, beyond the Ganges, right above the Malaysian Peninsula.
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    Detail of Asia in the Ptolemy world map. The "Menander Mons" are in the center of the map, at the east of the Indian subcontinent, beyond the Ganges, right above the Malaysian Peninsula.

    Menander (Milinda) is considered as probably the most successful Indo-Greek king, and the conqueror of the vastest territory [13]. The finds of his coins are the most numerous and the most widespread of all the Indo-Greek kings. In Antiquity, from at least the 1st century CE, the "Menander Mons", or "Mountains of Menander", came to designate the mountain chain at the extreme east of the Indian subcontinent, today's Naga hills and Arakan, as indicated in the Ptolemy world map of the 1st century CE geographer Ptolemy. Presumably the "Menander Mons" were so named because they marked the easternmost extent of his Indian conquests. Menander is also remembered in Buddhist literature (the Milinda Panha) as a convert to Buddhism: he became an arhat whose relics were enshrined in a manner reminiscent of the Buddha. He also introduced a new coin type, with Athena Alkidemos ("Protector of the people") on the reverse, which was adopted by most of his successors in the East.

    Conquests east of the Punjab region were most likely made during the second half of the century by the king Menander I.

    Following Menander's reign, about twenty Indo-Greek kings are known to have ruled in succession in the eastern parts of the Indo-Greek territory. Upon his death, Menander was succeeded by his queen Agathokleia, who for some time acted as regent to their son Strato I.
    [edit]

    Greek provinces or satrapies in India

    From ancient authors (Pliny, Arrian, and Ptolemy), a list of ten provinces, satrapies, or simple regional designations from within the Indo-Greek Kingdom can be discerned (though others have been lost):

    * Patalene - the whole Indus delta region, with an apparent capital in "Demetrias-in-Patalene;" presumably founded by Demetrius.
    * Abiria - North of the Indus delta and apparently named for the Ahbira peoples, presumably in residence of the region.
    * Prasiane - North of Abiria and East of the main Indus channel.
    * Surastrene - South of Patalene and past the Kanthian gulf; comprised of Kathiawar (Surashtra) and parts of Gujerat.
    * Sigerdis - a coastal region beyond Patalene and Surastrene.
    * Souastene - subdivision of Gandhara, comprising the Swat Valley.
    * Goruaia - smaller district located between the lower Swat river and the Kunar (Bajaur).
    * Peucelaitas - denotes the immediate district around Pushkalavati (Greek: Peucela).
    * Kaspeiria - comprised of the upper valleys of the Chenab, Ravi, and Jhelum (ie, southern Kashmir).
    * Kulindrene - as related by Ptolemy, a region comprising the upper valleys of the Sutlej Jumna, Beas, and Ganges. This report is generally taken to be inaccurate, and the contents of the region were undoubtedly somewhat smaller.

    [edit]

    Greco-Bactrian encroachments

    From 130 BCE, the Scythians and then the Yuezhi, following a long migration from the border of China), started to invade Bactria from the north. Around 125 BCE the Greco-Bactrian king Heliocles, son of Eucratides, was probably killed during the invasion and the Greco-Bactrian kingdom proper ceased to exist. Heliocles may have been survived by his relative Eucratides II, who ruled south of the Hindu Kush, in areas untouched by the invasion. Other Indo-Greek kings like Zoilos I, Lysias and Antialcidas may possible have been relatives of either the Eucratid or the Euthydemid dynasties; they struck both Greek and bilingual coins and established a kingdom of their own.

    A stabilizing alliance with the Yuezhi then seems to have followed, as hinted on the coins of Zoilos I, who minted coins showing Heracles' club together with a steppe-type recurve bow inside a victory wreath.

    The Indo-Greeks thus suffered encroachments by the Greco-Bactrians in their western territories. The Indo-Greek territory was divided into two realms: the house of Menander retreated to their territories east of the Jhelum River as far as Mathura, whereas the Western kings ruled a larger kingdom of Paropamisadae, western Punjab and Arachosia to the south.

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  14. #74

    Default Re: Indian faction

    I must add , that this is a very interestinc period , wich is covered right by My mod Res Gestae , the Mauryans start at the very maximal expansion and the Bactrians just start to expand .....

    Edit , I found evidences that the indians crossbreed the tigers with dogs , but not that or if they used in battle , if you know anything about let me know ....

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  15. #75

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts
    I haven't made any assumption , I just posted what wikipedia states , but also is stated on severall other hystory books , Strabo and other historians , probably even indian ones according wto the wikipedia fonts , in their article there could be a bibliography ...
    Yeah - I never said you made any assumptions, I was talking about colonial historians who did most of the first research on the period, how they would often 'Aryan-ise' India's history, to justify European domination of India.

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts
    I must add , that this is a very interestinc period , wich is covered right by My mod Res Gestae , the Mauryans start at the very maximal expansion and the Bactrians just start to expand .....

    Edit , I found evidences that the indians crossbreed the tigers with dogs , but not that or if they used in battle , if you know anything about let me know ....
    Its not biologically possible to cross-breed members of two seperate species, are you sure it isnt some kind of translation error, such as a subspecies of dog called a 'tiger dog' or something?

    Im really glad you are covering the Mauryan period in Res Gestae - it will be a fantastic mod :original:
    Last edited by medieval5467; June 10, 2006 at 10:32 AM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Tought the same , but I read somewhere in a long google search , may be u can find better informations , I think refers to ancient legends and stuff about mastiff origins ....

    In corroboration of this singular, but not less fabulous belief, Pliny states that the inhabitants of India take pleasure in having dog *****es lined by the wild tigers, and to facilitate this union, they are in the habit of tieing them when in heat out in the woods, so that the male tigers may visit them. (See L. 8, c. xl.)

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    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  17. #77

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts
    Tought the same , but I read somewhere in a long google search , may be u can find better informations , I think refers to ancient legends and stuff about mastiff origins ....
    Yes - that is probably from one of Pliny or Strabo's accounts of India - they did not understand the wildlife, having never encountered many of the speicies - I think that the Indian animal that most fits the description of a cross-bred tiger and dog is the hyena - although the accounts may not refer to this, and may just be the misconceptions of greek soldiers who reported it.

    An example of how the Greeks got confused is how when they first encountered monkeys in India, they thought they were small humans, having never encountered another primate species.

    BTW, I have found a map of the Indo-Greek domains that corraborates what I said above:



    Their territory in this map extens no further than the Indus valley region
    - i.e. the northwest frontier of India

  18. #78

    Default Re: Indian faction

    For the map I am not sure there are precise around , even becouse it depends everytime on the dates and those may change , after the destruction of the Mauryan Empire the Indian kingdoms and greeks could have faced alternations in land controls .... anyway I tend to follow what I find in books and I avoid to go for new theories unless proven , about them as being confused by not having seen tigers and dogs , I don't think so becouse in greece there where also lions at the time and tigers where also a known animal in Roman times especially favored in gladiatorial combats ...

    still quoting , seems that it can be possible that the Sunga fought with the Undo greeks fro controls of central india regions , so it is quite possible the greeks reached their same capital to besiege it ....
    Conflict with the Indo-Greeks (180 BCE- )

    From around 180 BCE the Greco-Bactrian ruler Demetrius, conquered the Kabul Valley and parts of northwestern India. Demetrius helped established an Indo-Greek kingdom from the Hindu Kush to Mathura, which was to last in parts until the end of the 1st century BCE, and under which Buddhism was able to flourish. In particular, one of the successors of Demetrius, the Indo-Greek "Saviour king" Menander (Pali: Milinda) was a strong benefactor of the Buddhist faith at that time.

    The Indo-Greeks and the Sungas seem to have reconciled and exchanged diplomatic missions around 110 BCE, as indicated by the Heliodorus pillar, which records the dispatch of a Greek ambassador named Heliodorus, from the court of the Indo-Greek king Antialcidas, to the court of the Sunga king Bhagabhadra at the site of Vidisha in central India.

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
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    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
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    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
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    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

  19. #79

    Default Re: Indian faction

    Quote Originally Posted by PROMETHEUS ts
    For the map I am not sure there are precise around , even becouse it depends everytime on the dates and those may change , after the destruction of the Mauryan Empire the Indian kingdoms and greeks could have faced alternations in land controls .... anyway I tend to follow what I find in books and I avoid to go for new theories unless proven , about them as being confused by not having seen tigers and dogs , I don't think so becouse in greece there where also lions at the time and tigers where also a known animal in Roman times especially favored in gladiatorial combats ...
    I didnt say that they had never seen a tiger - just that they may have assumed some species found in India were the offspirng of both tiger and dog - i.e. the hyena, which bears both feline and canine features.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Indian faction

    §But the yena was found also in africa ....

    ------CONAN TRAILER--------
    RomeII Realistic Heights mod
    Arcani
    I S S G A R D
    Creator of Ran no Jidai mod
    Creator of Res Gestae
    Original Creator of severall add ons on RTW from grass to textures and Roman Legions
    Oblivion Modder- DUNE creator
    Fallout 3 Modder
    2005-2006 Best modder , skinner , modeler awards winner.
    actually modding skyrim [/SIZE]

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