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Thread: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Alright, here's one of the most unrespected faction made in M2TW regarding historical accuracy and army composition. Here's a draft of the Scottish Roster (PDF file attached at the bottom of this post). I want to point out that those units is a roster part of the Lowlands only. The Western Highlands roster is part of the Hebridean roster which we will promote more in the upcoming month.

    My sources:
    http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/IV16.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scotlan...e_Ages#Warfare
    Osprey Publishing Bannockburn 1314
    Osprey Publishing Otterburn 1388

    Suggestions, comments, better names, want to improve and help? We will really appreciate it.

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by SonofPeverel; February 14, 2012 at 08:33 AM.

  2. #2
    Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Looks good to me! Cant wait to see the highland list Is it going to be a historical one or a more wild and crazy movie one?

    I wouldnt mind a mix, I cant fatom a Scotland without blue face painted kilt warriors

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Kriegtooth View Post
    Looks good to me! Cant wait to see the highland list Is it going to be a historical one or a more wild and crazy movie one?

    I wouldnt mind a mix, I cant fatom a Scotland without blue face painted kilt warriors
    Eheh, no worries, we won't do the same mistake as Mel Gibson did with the Scots.

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    Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Hahaha good, but ya gotta have one unit of crazies at least

    Granted, was it utterly inaccurate to have plaid tunics and such on Highland and Celtic warriors? I noticed that the Highland units in The Last Kingdom have kilts, and they went for accuracy too. Different timeframe of course

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    IVIarkI2I's Avatar .
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    well Border Rievers are little bit soon here Iwould call them simply Border Horsemen , and maybe for later centuries(15th) turn them into Rievers

    for Ettrick Bowmen well many bowmen came from those forests but not all of them, and as scotland expands by time they tend to recruit/hire many bowmens from more skilled north english folk.. so simply call them lowland bowmen


    well those are just recomendations anyway cant w8 to see highlands roster
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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by IVIarkI2I View Post
    well Border Rievers are little bit soon here Iwould call them simply Border Horsemen , and maybe for later centuries(15th) turn them into Rievers

    for Ettrick Bowmen well many bowmen came from those forests but not all of them, and as scotland expands by time they tend to recruit/hire many bowmens from more skilled north english folk.. so simply call them lowland bowmen


    well those are just recomendations anyway cant w8 to see highlands roster
    marry christmas
    Mark.
    Thank you for the suggestions, will take those into accounts. Merry Christmas and perhaps you didn't saw them but here's the Galloglaigh post some time ago, credits goes to Lord Hamilton, along all the model parts used listed in the credit. Those units will be part of the base roster of the Kingdom of the Isles and be accessible to the other neighbors by diplomatic rights and conquer of certain strategic regions.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

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    Princeps Prior
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Oooh nice! Like it!

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    AnthoniusII's Avatar Μέγαc Dομέστικοc
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    No kilts but yellow tunics.
    Last edited by David93; February 13, 2012 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Osprey pics removed

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    Dearg Doom's Avatar Aquilifer
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by AnthoniusII View Post
    No kilts but yellow tunics.
    Im afraid to say sir that they are irish troops not scottish, and there wearing the léine not tunics. The kilt was developed from the irish léine i believe
    Oh and its saffron not yellow, you can tell an irish kilt from a scottish one because irish traditionaly dyed them saffron whilst the highlanders used tartan. There is irsh tartan but its more of a modern thing
    Last edited by David93; February 13, 2012 at 01:37 PM.

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    David93's Avatar Shiny
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Sorry apreciate the assistance, but i had to edit the osprey pics out

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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Poly, I added the family tree to the OP.

    HOUSE OF HADER

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    This will be our next roster to work on, Lord Hamilton is eager to do the Scots!
    Also, what was the main languages in Lowland Scotland? Anglo Norman influenced them perhaps?

  13. #13
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Lords main language was French being Normans. Middle English (or Early Scots) was the language in the south-east around Edinburgh, it was beginning too spread out at this time. In the west is Gaelic which was fading in the face of Middle English. Could be some remnants of the Brythonic language of Strathclyde but certainly important, the name Wallace has to do with being called foreigner (in Old/Middle English or maybe French origin i am not sure) and most likely refers Britons and Bretons.

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheWarDog View Post
    Lords main language was French being Normans. Middle English (or Early Scots) was the language in the south-east around Edinburgh, it was beginning too spread out at this time. In the west is Gaelic which was fading in the face of Middle English. Could be some remnants of the Brythonic language of Strathclyde but certainly important, the name Wallace has to do with being called foreigner (in Old/Middle English or maybe French origin i am not sure) and most likely refers Britons and Bretons.
    Thank you very much for the confirmation and welcome to the forum.

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    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    Thank you very much for the confirmation and welcome to the forum.
    No problem, and thanks. It is good too see the Highland Lowland difference in a Total War game, especially with the Braveheart vanilla Scotland. I don't know how Medieval 2 handles naming for generals but which culture do you plan on taking them from? I personally imagine most people who rise up (or more born into) too actually take such position would be Norman.

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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheWarDog View Post
    No problem, and thanks. It is good too see the Highland Lowland difference in a Total War game, especially with the Braveheart vanilla Scotland. I don't know how Medieval 2 handles naming for generals but which culture do you plan on taking them from? I personally imagine most people who rise up (or more born into) too actually take such position would be Norman.
    For the names, at this moment is pretty vague, it will be later that we will tackle the family name for random general for instance, but since Anglo-Norma was quite present as well in Lowlands, there should be a good amount of names originated from that culture along some mixing with Early Scots.

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    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    For the names, at this moment is pretty vague, it will be later that we will tackle the family name for random general for instance, but since Anglo-Norma was quite present as well in Lowlands, there should be a good amount of names originated from that culture along some mixing with Early Scots.
    Yeah. I am looking forward too a Scotland in a game that isn't at least partly taken from Braveheart, the Lion Rampart will be the main faction flag right?

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    Polycarpe's Avatar Back into action!
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by ApacheWarDog View Post
    Yeah. I am looking forward too a Scotland in a game that isn't at least partly taken from Braveheart, the Lion Rampart will be the main faction flag right?
    Yes of course.

    Also, found something interesting about Scots language

    The average Schiltron man spoke the old-Scots tongue, a Germanic-derived language related to Northumbrian (both are roots of modern English) - the word schiltron translates as "shield troop" - although those from north of areas like the Lennox and Lothian would speak Gaelic, as would the native Gallovidians in the south-west. He would on set dates attend a wapenshaw - another old-Scots term, literally "show of weapons" - bringing with him the basic equipment decreed by statute. The Lords would speak their local language and, of course, French - at least in "polite society."

  19. #19
    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Polycarpe View Post
    Yes of course.

    Also, found something interesting about Scots language
    Yes, it be interesting too have some regional differences with recruitment. It would be easier if the time was a bit earlier when like the Mormaers of Moray (people seemingly being called Moravians back then like the Gallovidians) weren't part of the Norman culture. The conquest of Moray happened in the 12th century i think.

    I think you could say have more elite troops recruited in the south-east (and more English named ones) since it was the most advanced region in Scotland. Not sure about the other regions however but certainly more Gaelic ish or less advanced.

    An interesting thing is the Kingships of Galloway and then of Moray (or Mormaers, its kind of a King and High King structure). The kings or lords of Galloway only seem too have stopped in 1234 and like i said the Kings of Moray a bit earlier. Not sure what could happen with those places if anything however.

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    Ikko-Ikki
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    Default Re: [Faction Research] Kingdom of Scotland

    There does seem too be a fair number of rebellions against the Normans maybe dying a down a bit by the time the campaign happened however. Such as the Scots turning on the Normans and English (English in Scotland that is) in 1170's (it is early but yeah) when the king was captured and killed allot of them it seems. Even two rebellions from the MacHeths and Meic Uilleim (or MacWilliam) claiming Kingship. Shame most of that happens in the previous century and just fades out at the start of the 13th with the last of the MacWilliams (a girl just born more or less) was publicly executed in 1230.

    This is quite a good map i think: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...ndMormaers.PNG . Could give you a good idea for stuff like rebellions regions, levels of development, unit recruitment and that. You would also have some Norse culture in the far north.

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