Suggestions

[FC Groningen]

I think Mordor should not only have a diplomat called Mouth of Sauron but also Black Numenorean infantry, cavalry and archer units. You could not recruit them too often as they would be very rare (the appearance of Mouth of Sauron in the books suggests there were still some Black Numenoreans hiding somewhere in evil lands so my suggestion is not unfriendly to lore), but these descendants of "Kings Men" would be at least equal to their Gondorian counterparts. Handy whenever you think you need elite forces instead of masses of good for nothing orcs. You could recruit and retrain Black Numenoreans only in Mordor and in cities you have taken from Gondor once their culture is at least 80& Followers of Melkor.

Also...I think the game is too simplified. Followers of Melkor culture should be deleted and replaced with three new cultures: Orcs (OotMm, OoG and Mordor), Evil Men (Rhun and Harad) and Isengard. These evil cultures would get much better along with each other than with their philosophical enemies such as Dunedain, Northmen, Elves, Dwarves etc and one culture building in common for them all would still be Temple of Melkor if possible. If you are a good faction and exterminate a city population after an offensive siege victory, you will gain more respect if a majority of their culture are orcs but you will gain more dread if a majority of their culture are Evil Men. If you are orc faction, it would work vice versa. If you are Evil Men faction, extermination would always bring you fear points and mercy respect points.

I am not sure how is it in latest patches but I feel those Servants of The Dark Lord who work like inquisitors from vanilla M2TW, should be erased from the mod if they havent been erased already. They are very hostile to lore. Roman Catholic Church had active inquisition hundreds of years ago but Dark Lord worshipping world in Tolkien Legendarium does not work like RCC. As the movie suggests, just before Battle of Pelennor, the biggest concern for Gothmog and Witch King was how to deal with Gandalf and not when will some "friendly" inquisitor stab them in the back and take their life. The books suggest no high ranking inhabitant of Mordor (least of all nazguls) had a cause to fear becoming an object of Saurons disgrace if they did not have a clear and strong reason for it. Sauron clearly was no Stalin. Worst of all, I heard someone tell inquisitors sometimes killed Sauron himself for lack of faith or heresy.

I would also like to add to my earlier inventor suggestion: industrialization. This would give you the opportunity to build factory. It would mean you could build more buildings and recruit more units at the same turn than normally (normally, it is two at most I think).

- I personally wouldn't mind "the Mouth of Sauron" as diplomat in the game.

- The suggestion of Black Numenorians as units for any faction has been made by a lot of people before you and most of them got shot down right away, mostly by "lore masters". Yet, apart from the "lore", I would suggest you'd take balance in account as well. If you give Mordor a tier of elite units, it will most likely affect the balance on the map, which is fine in my opinion as it is. Mordor also borders quite a lot of factions, so it will really require all involved factions to receive a boost too, which requires their neighbours to receive a boost again too.

- There is a limit of cultures that can be implented in the game as that's hardcoded. I also don't see the advantages of splitting those up ingame and I bet some people would describe it as lore unaccurate too. If you try Baron Samedi's submod (mind the bugs though), you'll find it possible to receive a bonus in culture if you're playing as an evil faction and behave like one. However, I don't think the game can make a distinction between exterminating a "good culture" and an "evil culture".

- Not sure it's possible to remove the "inquisitor servants" in the same way it's not possible to remove the "pope" from the game.

- Again, i'm not sure the game has a code for such a thing. Also, notice it will reduce the worth of upgrading settlements. I also don't consider it very logical that "industralisation" would lead to faster recruitment. The balance in unit recruitment seems fine to me and the value of recruiting faster will be limited with faction specifics and unit pools anyway.

[crawfs]

There's a few typos that I've noticed, I can't remember them all but I know of two. The first is in one of the loading screen quotes relating to the language of the orcs it says "It is said that they bad no language of their own..." and in I think one of the Silvan elf culture buildings it refers to it as a meeting place of elves but it's spelled as "meat."

[Ngugi]

There's a few typos that I've noticed, I can't remember them all but I know of two. The first is in one of the loading screen quotes relating to the language of the orcs it says "It is said that they bad no language of their own..." and in I think one of the Silvan elf culture buildings it refers to it as a meeting place of elves but it's spelled as "meat."

Please turn to me of any noted typos in the load screen quotes, it's my submod and always a few mistakes to be corrected hehe [800 quotes and hard to find faults beside when in the files, so ingame findings are appriciated]

[crawfs]

Please turn to me of any noted typos in the load screen quotes, it's my submod and always a few mistakes to be corrected hehe [800 quotes and hard to find faults beside when in the files, so ingame findings are appriciated]

I'll try to screen shot them when I see them.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/93...59643A4A4330F/ third line from the bottom is the "meat" typo

[EOMER]

Revamp of the orc factions would be nice

And snaga skirmishers shouldn't be the back bone of every orcs of the misty moutains army. get rid of those

[magraev]

I put this in another thread, but I'll repeat it here. When Eriador converts to Arnor they get a load of problems, since almost no units are in both rosters. Maybe let the greenway guards (mounted and foot) stay in Arnors roster, and maybe the hunters and lumbermen (can't remember their name). Then you would have units for garrisons, and units to train in the transition to Arnors Roster. At least the lumber-camps should have som effect after the conversion if you don't want the troops - maybe a trade and pop-growth bonus?

As it is you army stops growing completely for 10 turns or more, and your garrison troops all start costing money putting you deep in the hole if you're not prepared, and in deep trouble if in the middle of a serious war.

EDIT: I'm not sure it's possible to give a trade bonus to byz (Arnor). At least it doesn't work for me. It seems too strong to give it to Eriador from the start.

[uddhava]

Hi all,

Some suggestions for this awsome mod:

1. Could the names for new generals be some what more in line with lore? For instance why not name Elvish generals after famous Noldorin heroes of ancient times instead of the generic ones which also seem to differ wildly from the existing ones. Perhaps I'm mistaken here but I do not recognize any name. But it seems to me not unlikely that Haldir with name his child Turin or perhaps even Fingulfin or something. If not entirely lore accurate it at least would make me care more for those new gens as appossed to these generic and weird sounding names they have now. This goeas for all good factions.
2. As has been posted before it would be nice if the requirements for Arnor and osgilliath would be a bit lower. Also is a reemergence of the Rhovanion kingdom possible? Perhaps just as an ancilliary?
3. Regarding the special abilities. I find it weird that when I use Aragorns ability I hear Boromir shouting. Why not have Aragorn shout: ELENDIL!!!! Would be more immersive and less work. Also Gandalf's soundeffect could be slightly more dramatic (not his line but the background noise if you know what I mean). Although not a modder I would assume that messing with the sound wouldn't require too much work.
4. Include ngugni's (sorry if that is spelled incorrectly) familytree mod and screens mod in the next update please .
5. The Silvan Elves seem the only faction without location specific units. Although I like the roster allready, one region with one secific unit would be nice. (lothlorien guards or wathever) If I find time perhaps I will re read the silmarillion again to see if I can find something.
6. Especially around the 11.000 mark some cities stop growing unless a governer is present. Perhaps this could be slightly tweaked so as to allow for at least 0.5 pop growth.

Tenx!

[Cybernaut]

- I personally wouldn't mind "the Mouth of Sauron" as diplomat in the game.

- The suggestion of Black Numenorians as units for any faction has been made by a lot of people before you and most of them got shot down right away, mostly by "lore masters". Yet, apart from the "lore", I would suggest you'd take balance in account as well. If you give Mordor a tier of elite units, it will most likely affect the balance on the map, which is fine in my opinion as it is. Mordor also borders quite a lot of factions, so it will really require all involved factions to receive a boost too, which requires their neighbours to receive a boost again too.

- There is a limit of cultures that can be implented in the game as that's hardcoded. I also don't see the advantages of splitting those up ingame and I bet some people would describe it as lore unaccurate too. If you try Baron Samedi's submod (mind the bugs though), you'll find it possible to receive a bonus in culture if you're playing as an evil faction and behave like one. However, I don't think the game can make a distinction between exterminating a "good culture" and an "evil culture".

- Not sure it's possible to remove the "inquisitor servants" in the same way it's not possible to remove the "pope" from the game.

- Again, i'm not sure the game has a code for such a thing. Also, notice it will reduce the worth of upgrading settlements. I also don't consider it very logical that "industralisation" would lead to faster recruitment. The balance in unit recruitment seems fine to me and the value of recruiting faster will be limited with faction specifics and unit pools anyway.

Black Numenorean units should be *VERY* rare to reflect the lore. You could only recruit a Black Numenorean unit once per 50 or 100 turns in some Dunedain and Mordor cities. Of course 99% of Mordor forces should consist of orcs and trolls. This would quite much just give Mordor something for special occasions such as you would no longer have to let routing enemies flee if you have a unit of Black Numenorean cavalry on the field. Due to their rarity, they would not be of much use as regular forces in ordinary combat.

About cultures: Ah. Then it is just as I feared.

About inquisitors: Well, maybe even realism fanatics like me can somehow forgive "inquisitors" in the sense that the orc captain Shagrat is said to have been killed, at least stripped off his rank, because he got in disfavor/disgrace of Sauron. (The Dark Lord probably blamed him for the loss of two orc contingents to a wanton armed brawl typical to orcs). Life is cheap among Sauron worshippers. I guess all we can do for now is remove inquisitors of Sauron with assassins whenever they appear.

About industrialization: All right. I thought it needed to be added as a part of the logics of the inventor/researcher feature I suggested earlier but the whole inventor feature is probably out of question as long as this mod cannot be ported to any other game than M2TW.

However....if the AI in this game somehow cheats and is able to often produce units that human player finds rarely available for recruiting, then I totally understand why some people oppose the implementation of Black Numenorean units. If that is the case, forget my suggestion about Black Numenoreans.

[mondpeiler]

Hi all,

... have Aragorn shout: ELENDIL!!!! ...
... Gandalf's soundeffect could be slightly more dramatic ...

Gandalf's could simply be: "you shall not pass!"

[uddhava]

Gandalf's could simply be: "you shall not pass!"

That's a good one too

[crawfs]

I know this has nno doubt been said before in many different ways but:

I really think that the economy needs a serious buff. As it is the AI is given far too many bonuses and the player punished far to harshly, I find the only way to win is to rush and I don't like rushing, I want the option to turtle my empire into greatness.

I think that there are a few things that could be done to improve the economy:

1. Either reduce the cost of economy based buildings or increase their output as it is the amount that you get from a trade building, such as a market, is far too low for how much it outputs. I paid 800 gold for a market in my capital city, what was the output? 30 gold. I would need to have that running for 25 turns just toearn my money back off of that building, that is in no way cost effective.

2. More upkeep slots as it stands currently there are very few town that have free upkeep slots, for example I seriously think that cair Andros should be granted at the very lest 2 free upkeep slots.

3. A buff to population growth This has been mentioned many times before, it simply takes far too long to upgrade a city (to repair osgiliath apparently takes some 200 turns) one reason for this is the lack of effect that HEALTH has on your population growth I believe this should be changed and the growth from farms given a slight buff.

I simply think that, while this is a truly awesome mod, the economy can be quite intimidating to fairly casual players like me and while yes I can cheat so that money isn't a problem but that just kind of takes all the fun out of it. In vanilla Medieval while money wasn't much of a problem is what still to be kept in check, whilst in TATW half the battle is with the economy and personally I find that a little frustrating to have to deal with.

[FC Groningen]

I know this has nno doubt been said before in many different ways but:

I really think that the economy needs a serious buff. As it is the AI is given far too many bonuses and the player punished far to harshly, I find the only way to win is to rush and I don't like rushing, I want the option to turtle my empire into greatness.

I think that there are a few things that could be done to improve the economy:

1. Either reduce the cost of economy based buildings or increase their output as it is the amount that you get from a trade building, such as a market, is far too low for how much it outputs. I paid 800 gold for a market in my capital city, what was the output? 30 gold. I would need to have that running for 25 turns just toearn my money back off of that building, that is in no way cost effective.

2. More upkeep slots as it stands currently there are very few town that have free upkeep slots, for example I seriously think that cair Andros should be granted at the very lest 2 free upkeep slots.

3. A buff to population growth This has been mentioned many times before, it simply takes far too long to upgrade a city (to repair osgiliath apparently takes some 200 turns) one reason for this is the lack of effect that HEALTH has on your population growth I believe this should be changed and the growth from farms given a slight buff.

I simply think that, while this is a truly awesome mod, the economy can be quite intimidating to fairly casual players like me and while yes I can cheat so that money isn't a problem but that just kind of takes all the fun out of it. In vanilla Medieval while money wasn't much of a problem is what still to be kept in check, whilst in TATW half the battle is with the economy and personally I find that a little frustrating to have to deal with.

The economical balance as you describe it, is a personal choice from the development team as they prefer to make this a very challenging mod. While I agree that most of the times, rushing works best with most factions, its still no guarantee for victory and it will take more than that to win most campaigns. This mod on its recommended setting, asks you several things to win a campaign:
- Patience
- Being able to win large battles cheaply, even when outnumbered
- Being able to micro manage your economy
- Being able to keep tabs on your enemy and own lands
- Being able to plan both long and short term strategies and seeing them through.

If you want the game to be more forgiving, or wish to have the room to improvise during your campaign, there is a much easier way to do it. Lower the difficulty settings. There is no shame in playing in M/M for example and its called "vh/vh" for a reason.

[crawfs]

The economical balance as you describe it, is a personal choice from the development team as they prefer to make this a very challenging mod. While I agree that most of the times, rushing works best with most factions, its still no guarantee for victory and it will take more than that to win most campaigns. This mod on its recommended setting, asks you several things to win a campaign:
- Patience
- Being able to win large battles cheaply, even when outnumbered
- Being able to micro manage your economy
- Being able to keep tabs on your enemy and own lands
- Being able to plan both long and short term strategies and seeing them through.

If you want the game to be more forgiving, or wish to have the room to improvise during your campaign, there is a much easier way to do it. Lower the difficulty settings. There is no shame in playing in M/M for example and its called "vh/vh" for a reason.

I do play on M/M my comments were simply that I find that there appears to be only onw way forward in this mod and that is to rush your opponent and if that fails you're kind of ruined because your income is too low and the AI gets ridiculous bonuses to help them along the way (which I would be fine with if the economy was decent).

I'd even prefer if they put in another "casual game mode" that buffs the economy in the ways I have mentioned to make it a less challenging experience. If this were possible I would say that it would offer a fun experience for the far more experienced total war players who can continue using the economy system that is currently in place and it would also account for people, like me, who don't want to spend hours fiddling with their economy and would prefer to get to the recruitment and marching of the armies without having to worry about the lack of gold in my treasury.

[FC Groningen]

I do play on M/M my comments were simply that I find that there appears to be only onw way forward in this mod and that is to rush your opponent and if that fails you're kind of ruined because your income is too low and the AI gets ridiculous bonuses to help them along the way (which I would be fine with if the economy was decent).

I'd even prefer if they put in another "casual game mode" that buffs the economy in the ways I have mentioned to make it a less challenging experience. If this were possible I would say that it would offer a fun experience for the far more experienced total war players who can continue using the economy system that is currently in place and it would also account for people, like me, who don't want to spend hours fiddling with their economy and would prefer to get to the recruitment and marching of the armies without having to worry about the lack of gold in my treasury.

Aha, I didn't knew you played on M/M. Well if you ask me, there should be room for different strategies on M/M, also depending on which faction you play. Even on vh/vh, some factions can get away with pure turtling strategies. Yet, on M/M, you still can't afford to be careless and bumping in AI stacks that suddenly spawn out of nowhere can be foreseen and/or avoided if you play your cards right. If you want some battle or general tips for a faction for what ever strategy you're using, you're welcome to ask here too.

If you want a casual game, all I can do is recommend easy/easy. It's also possible to put your settlements on "auto manage".

[Cybernaut]

Another suggestion: How about making it easier for people to turn off money scripts and garrison scripts and also to add something to the mod that will explain them early on? I dare to call into question whether allowing AI to cheat by default is a solution to AIs inferior intelligence compared to human beings.

[crawfs]

Another suggestion: How about making it easier for people to turn off money scripts and garrison scripts and also to add something to the mod that will explain them early on? I dare to call into question whether allowing AI to cheat by default is a solution to AIs inferior intelligence compared to human beings.

That's in Baron Samedi's mod, but I agree it's quite a good idea to put that kind of stuff in the vanilla mod.

[Cybernaut]

That's in Baron Samedi's mod, but I agree it's quite a good idea to put that kind of stuff in the vanilla mod.

The devs quite likely have the right idea to make the game a bit easier for AI and a bit harder for humans but allowing the AI to CHEAT gets that idea so far it is unclear whether it is reasonable and realistic any longer. I somehow understand the balrog in Moria but if you attack some Gondorian city with Haradrim, there is no way Gondor can have half stack more units than what your initial intelligence/scouting results were a few seconds before besieging them especially if other Gondorian units are far away from the city. I would understand if desperate civilians grabbed pitchforks or hoes or something to defend their city but how can they train half stack of heavily armored and well armed elite military units in a second? That is very far beyond anything even Gandalf would be capable of.

There is a reason to this critique even without the fact many newbies likely believe the starting message for every campaign that says something like: "game should be played on vh/vh. If it is too easy, then you are not doing it right". That message appears even at the start of difficult factions such as Isengard! I know an extremely experienced, skilled and brilliant Youtube tactician who little time ago failed his long Eriador campaign even though I think his difficulty was m/m. Reason for his failure: a powerful enemy, that had conquered almost all of Gondor, apparently pauselessly cheated with the money script all the time.

I agree with crawfs that there should be room for creativity. I advocate neither too hard nor too easy game. I advocate REALISM and anything that makes sense and is explainable by rational logics.

[Coldfire88]

Another suggestion: How about making it easier for people to turn off money scripts and garrison scripts and also to add something to the mod that will explain them early on? I dare to call into question whether allowing AI to cheat by default is a solution to AIs inferior intelligence compared to human beings.

I second that, It could be a simple Yes? No? question at the start of campaign as many submods do, with an explanation of what effect they will have on the campaign.

[Red_Devil]

Black Numenorean units should be *VERY* rare to reflect the lore. You could only recruit a Black Numenorean unit once per 50 or 100 turns in some Dunedain and Mordor cities. Of course 99% of Mordor forces should consist of orcs and trolls. This would quite much just give Mordor something for special occasions such as you would no longer have to let routing enemies flee if you have a unit of Black Numenorean cavalry on the field. Due to their rarity, they would not be of much use as regular forces in ordinary combat.

i don't know if it was mentionned, but it is certainly possible to make them as unique units such as the templar special troops in vanilla medieval 2 crusades extension. ??? so those troops can only be recruited in the capital if there are no other (if it was destroyed in battle or other.)

[chriskourou]

I'm sure this has been mentioned but... does anybody know.. what 's next ? ? ?