Suggestions

[Hengest]

Now, I mentioned armies marching, so let us look a bit at what we know of the speed of marching armies.

Isuldur's journey north:
Osgiliath - Imladris (308 Leagues/1487 Km), expected 40 days = 37 Km/day
Dayly marching distance for Dúnedain given as 8 Leagues with ease, 12 Leagues at haste and in great need more. That is 38.6 Km/day at ease, 58 Km at haste. Quite far, but not impossible. The Foreign Legion covered 50- 60 Km/day in its Algerian campaigns in the 19th century over hot desert and mountains. The Romans 20- 35 Km/day depending on terrain, and they built those famous fortified camps every evening and took them down again every morning. Thus the Romans would have used 60 days to get from Osgiliath to Imladris. Compare this to years of marching in TATW...

The ride of Eorl ("I will come, if the Mundburg falls, whither shall we flee from the Darkness?"):
Framsburg - Undeeps, 500 miles as the bird flies, 9 days.


LoTR:
Isengard - Helm's Deep, 56 miles, 2 days for the Isengarders.
Edoras - Helm's Deep, 96 miles, one day.
Helm's Deep - Dunharrow, 4 days at 40 miles/day, two at 20-ish.
Dunharrow - Minas Tirith, 80 miles/day to Eilenach, 50-ish through the Drúadan Forest, then 24 before dawn breaks and they charge onto the Pellenor Fields.
Minas Morgul - Minas Tirith, 7 days, 15-25 miles/day.
Minas Tirith - Morannon, 7 days


There and back again:
Gundabad - Erebor, appr 400 miles, 21 days for the Goblins.

The problem is that in one turn you would 'realistically' be able to march more than halfway across Middle-earth. The AI WILL do that even from the start of the campaign. As recruitment builds up, you will have a total mess. One way to block progress would be to have permanent stone forts blocking the crossings of rivers etc. The problem there however is that the AI doesn't use PSFs. You could maybe place some villages at crossings, but I don't think there is enough room on the map (max is 199 settlements). Even if you were only to double the current map movement points, you would get the worse case scenario effect. I agree with the lore however, but game mechanics would be a problem. One way to make it even more realistic though would be to improve the movement points but also to add heavy attrition traits for armies on the move, representing how they are able to live off the land. Different factions could have different levels, Rohan for instance could allow their horses to live off grass, orcs would just raid and pillage. Eriador would be pretty much screwed.

It is actually very easy for you to mod the files and change the movement points for armies, I recommend you do it and make some tests. You can then present your findings to the mod team in a more scientific manner, and that might convince King Kong.

[michael1092]

I have a few suggestions:

1. Make the Cultural Growth a little bit more fast
2. Make the Original Generals more strong (Ex. Boromir, Faramir, Imrahil, Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf)
3. More Units (if possible)
4. Make diplomacy a little bit more efficient, for example when requesting help from an ally make some sort of crusade, so he will have to send troops to help in the siege of a settlement or in the defence of another settlement (I know Its a sub mod but its not save compatible)
5. Make possible the change of Generals Bodyguar (Faramir form Rangers of Ithilien to Gondor Knights or something like that)

[Wizad]

I have a few suggestions:
1. Make the Cultural Growth a little bit more fast

It's not needed. Cultural growth is fine if you build the best conversion buildings.

2. Make the Original Generals more strong (Ex. Boromir, Faramir, Imrahil, Aragorn, Legolas, Gandalf)

Even stronger???

3. More Units (if possible)

I've opened a thread on this matter. King Kong needs a little bit more substance to start programming than just "more units". Also did you know there are a lot of 'hidden' units in the game? Gondor can recruit special units in Dol Amroth, Lossarnach, Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, the Ithilien, Erech and Pelagir once you have the sufficient buildings.

5. Make possible the change of Generals Bodyguar (Faramir form Rangers of Ithilien to Gondor Knights or something like that)

That could be a nice idea. However people might abuse it and turn all Gondor generals into Swan Knights. Perhaps a requirement could be that the general has to go to the city where you can train the units, and then you have to pay double the amount that a normal unit of that type costs to turn your general into that unit. Your capital would be the recruitment center for the generic bodyguard.

[Hero of the West]

Could there be another way of gaining and destroying the Ring?

The current one is not very satisfactory Lore-wise TBH.

Consider this please;

The Ring is found in various settlements as usual. But, instead of conquering the settlement the player must send a spy there. Upon staying there undisturbed for a certain number of rounds, the spy gains the Ring.

The spy is then summoned to Imladris as now, but some assassins or servants of Sauron spawn to hunt him (but cannot go into Elven territory), as does Gollum either as a spy/assassin or as an ancillary. The player then gets tasked to sneak the spy with the Ring into Mordor, much as now, but without a conquering army.

When he reaches Mordor proper, or Ithilien-Mordor, armies spawn for various factions as in my suggestion a bit up in this thread. Gondor's doom draws near.

The spy has to stay a certain number of turns on Mt. Doom to destroy it, much as now. He can be alone or part of an army (so you face the same dilemma as the good guys did).

This should be possible within the game engine, and it is much more Lore-accurate.

Thanks.

to easy though.. a spy can get anywhere and there is no way of stopping him for the AI.. it would make an easy win and no challange..

[michael1092]

It's not needed. Cultural growth is fine if you build the best conversion buildings.



Even stronger???



I've opened a thread on this matter. King Kong needs a little bit more substance to start programming than just "more units". Also did you know there are a lot of 'hidden' units in the game? Gondor can recruit special units in Dol Amroth, Lossarnach, Osgiliath, Minas Tirith, the Ithilien, Erech and Pelagir once you have the sufficient buildings.



That could be a nice idea. However people might abuse it and turn all Gondor generals into Swan Knights. Perhaps a requirement could be that the general has to go to the city where you can train the units, and then you have to pay double the amount that a normal unit of that type costs to turn your general into that unit. Your capital would be the recruitment center for the generic bodyguard.

Yeah I know they have hidden units, but I mean something like gondor could train rohan cavalry and rohan could train gondor archers, at maybe triple cost, because there will be special units.

My suggestion about the generals was because last night mordor killed Boromir with just a Morannon Guard, maybe its because I play VH/VH

The idea of the bodyguards would be great, but for example only the general with the "Prince of Dol Amroth" could be able to have a Swan Knight Bodyguard, and onle the general with "Captain of the rangers of Ithilien" could have rangers as a bodyguard, I suggested that because in sieges you will be able to send your general to attack the walls, and in open field battles you could put him in a horse so he will charge the enemy infantry.

About my suggestion on AI diplomacy?

[Wizad]

My suggestion about the generals was because last night mordor killed Boromir with just a Morannon Guard

Never send a melee general unit to fight another unit on its own. In fact never send a high tier unit to fight another unit on its own. It is way better to use a militia as a meat shield so you don't take high losses on expensive/important units.

About my suggestion on AI diplomacy?

There is a submod that allows you to counter invasions, there is also a submod that allows the nothern Orc factions to call for aid if they have the required building, but adding it in Vanilla? No I think it is fine the way it is.

[PointOfViewGun]

Wouldn't it be more fitting if Amon Sul had extra vision range?

[delra]

KK, You need to rethink the whole population growth model. The rate at which player's castles are growing is ridiculous. Having AI steam to fortress while darned Limlight Fort governed by a full chivalry guy is still a Motte is the most annoying thing in this entire mod.

I get that AI is beyond stupid when it comes to buildings, but you taxed players too much on their growth to make up for this stupidity. At the very least you should cut population requirements for progressing between levels 1-2 on a castle so they can develop basic culture and farming buildings in some reasonable timeframe and start proper growth.

[Oneru]

At the very least you should cut population requirements for progressing between levels 1-2 on a castle so they can develop basic culture and farming buildings in some reasonable timeframe and start proper growth.

I agree with this part, it's very annoying to conquer a castle and then being forced to keep expensive units in it to keep the peace, because you cannot yet build basic culture buildings (in my case: Orc Encampment as High Elves, 350 pop with 0,5% growth). It would be a lot nicer to be able to build at least culture buildings in these places to get the population on your side.

[mondpeiler]

agree with the population growth
castles are the biggest problem.
but it is in general a bit too hard. it shouldn't be boosted in an extensive way. only a little bit perhaps.
I for examples have big problems to get Annuminas onto the required level. in my last campaign Aragorn died befor I could reach the population to even upgrade the city so that I could build the Hall of Kings. and he died of old age, not in battle! (and I hadn't build anything exept all stages of farms and those pop-growth-buildings (and roads)).

[Khay]

Someone suggested once that all settlements get a fixed population growth bonus, like for example, 15 men per year in addition to the "normal" grows. +15 men per year to your 350 pop settlement w/ 0.5% grows would be a really huge boost, while being barely noticable to well developped large towns.

[Wizad]

Yeah it would be nice to be able to convert the culture of smaller castles. Either by lowering the requirement for level 2 of castle walls, or by giving the lower castle levels a small building that gives 1-2% culture convert bonus.

Someone suggested once that all settlements get a fixed population growth bonus, like for example, 15 men per year in addition to the "normal" grows. +15 men per year to your 350 pop settlement w/ 0.5% grows would be a really huge boost, while being barely noticable to well developped large towns.

Actually this sounds even better. Although it would mean that by turn 70, there will be no small villages left. Perhaps being able to build a building that adds a fixed amount of population growth. An expensive building that can only be build in some regions such as Limlight Fort.

[mondpeiler]

concerning ERIADOR


As one could guess, I'm currently playing an Eriador-campaign (again).
Some things that come to my mind, I want to share:

1st
...of all: Eriador atm is a verry nice faction as it is. I really like to play it. But I think it could be improoved in a way to reflect Gondors fiefdoms in an arnorian kind. Gondor has currently different AOR-units for different regions (Blackrootvale, Dol Amroth, Pelargir, Lossarnach). Eriador has this in a thriftily kind of version (Greenway and Dúnedain). what I would like to see is a representation of the former successor-states of the arnorian Kingdom:
Rhudaur, Cardolan and Arthedain.
that would spice the whole faction up, I think. In the current game, the Orcs of Gundabad have access to Rhudaur units. My original thought was: are the people of (former) Rhudaur really mad ones? couldn't it be possible, to convince those men (who surely have some problems with orcs as well), to fight alongside their former brothers? In contradiction to the Dunlendings the men of Rhudaur wouldn't really hate their neigbours in a "they-stole-our-land"-way, so the concept for Eriador could be, that they are abled to recruit Rhudaur troops after conquering their lands as AOR as well. they would share the same units of this region with the Orcs of Gundabad. And in addition to this former realm, perhaps one could make some AOR-units for the realms of Cardolan and Arthedain as well, so that all three successor-cultures are represented in Eriador according to their former borders.

RHUDAUR | same units as the OoG use
CARDOLAN | some units linked to a "river-culture" | perhaps spearthrowers like Dale's "Rivermen" or an archer-unit
ARTHEDAIN | the roomy Kingdom in the north | perhaps riders or fast light infantry

map of Arnor-successor-states

2nd
the updates of the Stables of Eriador have (except for Greenway- and Dúnedain-regions) no impact. In step three, Baron's stables, you can still recruit only one unit of Merchants. I know, the idea behind is to reunite Arnor and then use those stables to recruit better riders, but what if you miss the chance to reunite and still want to play on, though (because Aragorn dies to early, f.e.)? perhaps this could be changed, that in step three, two units of merchants are available.

3rd
not really Eriador-related but I noticed this while playing it: Some towns have double buildings:
ISENGARD | 2x mines buildable
GUNDABAD | 2x archery range
ARGOND (not sure: the Fortress west of Tharbad) | 2x port

[Macilrille]

That is the Argond yes.

Good ideas, except few Rhudaurim would probably fight for good as they hated the Dúnedain. There could and should be some other AOR units though, Northmen migritaed from the Anduin Vales, Dunlendings migrated from the strife in Dunland or the like.


I very- VERY much like the EB recruitment system.



Meanwhile, while looking over the Rhûn faction to give Wizad some feedback, I noticed that a province called "East Rhün" was actually the westernmost of the Rhûnnic start provinces. You might want to change that KK.

[Yaklord]

Moria should be split into three cities as it is huge and takes three days from one side to other!.
Also balrog should be released when attacked on central city.
Perhaps each moria city could have its own custom settlemnt.

[rtboy214]

Suggestion for dead marshes battlefield.
ok, when it comes to a river battle before a bridge is built, there is a land bridge with just a foot of water flowing over. I was wondering for a dead marshes battlefield to expland that land bridge to cover the battlfield and still have that foot or two of water flowing over. just stick in some grass and trees and bushes here and there.

[Bob Doad]

I agree with the Moria one! However I would also be fine if more forts were stuck in the mountains and they provide money if garrisoned so that the OOMM would have incentive to guard their mountain passes so that the elves cant come in and destroy them super early turn like they do in my games. I think its ridiculous i can send an elven army straight through the mountains. There should be forts everywhere kind of like checkpoints because the valley is supposed to represent the underground caverns right? Im sure the orcs wouldnt leave it all unattended. So in summation the mountain passses and the valley should have money making forts.

[delra]

If it's possible, Elven generals should get a speed bonus in forests. Maybe via a trait?

[tank0fell]

I would like to suggest something for the human factions.

I was thinking it would be far more realistic to let family members of the human die of old age.
To make sure this isn't a disadvantage, they should be able to get kids way faster and also more chances to adopt someone. Also, their starting treats should be a little big higher for that.

[Bobz]

I would like to suggest something for the human factions.

I was thinking it would be far more realistic to let family members of the human die of old age.
To make sure this isn't a disadvantage, they should be able to get kids way faster and also more chances to adopt someone. Also, their starting treats should be a little big higher for that.

Erm they do don't they?